XP Calc for Torment & GR

General Discussion
So yesterday I read a reddit post proclaiming XP bonuses were reduced in 2.2 and decided to test it out to see if the Rubies, Leorics, and Gem of Ease were actually worth using when I run T6 or speed GRs. I went on PTR tonight to test. This isn't any new news or any recent changes, just wanted to test to see if Gem of Ease was worth using. Here are the results:

Greater Rifts:
  • XP % from items are summed up (Cains+Borns+Ruby+Leoric+Hellfire.), and then multiplied with GR XP modifier.
  • +Experience from secondaries & Gem of Ease are NOT multiplied by GR XP modifier.

T6 Rifts:
  • XP % from items are summed up (Cains+Borns+Ruby+Leoric+Hellfire.) ADDITIVELY with T6 XP% modifier.
  • +Experience from secondaries & Gem of Ease ARE multiplied, by T6 XP% modifier.

Example GR#1:
+91% XP (20% Born + 30% Leorics Ring + 41% Ruby)
If you killed a zombie worth 1,000,000 XP, you would instead get 1,910,000 XP.

Example GR#2:
+2000 XP from Gem of Ease
If you killed a zombie worth 1,000,000 XP, you would instead get 1,002,000 XP.

Example T6#1:
+91% XP (20% Born + 30% Leorics Ring + 41% Ruby)
Since T6 base = 1600% +91% = 1691% = ~5.7% ,more XP
If you killed a skeleton worth 100,000 XP, you would instead get 105,688 XP.

Example T6#2:
+2000 XP from Gem of Ease
T6 Base of +1600% XP = +34000 XP = ~34% more XP
If you killed a skeleton worth 100,000 XP, you would instead get 134,000 XP.

Conclusion:
1) STOP using Gem of Ease in GRs. Completely not worth it. It adds < 0.1% to your XP gain in GR35+. The extra XP you receive from Gem of Ease and XP per Kill is exactly the same from GR1 to GR100. DO use XP% gear in GR, as much as you can get away with ^_^
2) XP% gear in T6 really isn't worth it. +% XP is additive into the base T6 +1600% and results in ~5% more XP for a lot of damage sacrificed. +XP secondaries is ok in T6, but if you want XP just do speed GRs
3) Gem of Ease IS actually somewhat decent in T6. ~18% more XP against standard mobs like zombies, ~3% on 'large' mobs.
I can confirm bonus %xp gear is still multiplicative on PTR. I ran multiple grifts with and without xp gear and the xp increase was very close the 135% bonus I had on my gear.

Your numbers for gem of ease in T6 also roughly matches tests I did earlier in the season on the live servers.

How did you do a controlled test of gem of ease in grifts when you get random mobs each time and you cant swap gear mid rift?
gem of ease on t6 is good.. if someone is powerleveling you and you're under 70. other than that, def not worth it
Gem of Ease was made specially when starting a new character and you want to powerlevel it alone. The Rank 25 ability suggests it. I see no other use for the gem.
03/27/2015 11:09 PMPosted by EPiCSMoKE
gem of ease on t6 is good.. if someone is powerleveling you and you're under 70. other than that, def not worth it


If you're already 1 shotting mobs in T6 than it would be worth having over anything else.
Gem of ease is multiplied in current 2.1.2 in GR ? I see huge differencce playing with it now on gr 35 for exp farming. Can someone confirm ?
03/27/2015 10:55 PMPosted by Sprocket
I can confirm bonus %xp gear is still multiplicative on PTR. I ran multiple grifts with and without xp gear and the xp increase was very close the 135% bonus I had on my gear.

Your numbers for gem of ease in T6 also roughly matches tests I did earlier in the season on the live servers.

How did you do a controlled test of gem of ease in grifts when you get random mobs each time and you cant swap gear mid rift?

Spammed the same GR(44) with a FD with Gem of Ease and killed a few monsters 1 at a time to get a XP value A. Then spammed more GR44s without a Gem of Ease and killed the same monsters 1 at a time, to get XP Value B.

A-B = Gem of Ease without any multipliers. In T6 it was multiplied by the 17 (+1600%)
As much as i like/enjoy the increase in XP in grifts, I feel l the bonus % xp on being multiplicative is bias to zdps / leech setups. XP based builds get over double the amount of xp incomparison to the "carries" who are doing most of the work in the group.

Players who play "carry" role in the group reap no benefits,
Because of this XP mechanic, players are forced into making a toon specifically to farm for XP because it is simply more efficient.

Take an example of a mechanic from a very popular MOBA, League of Legends:
(Pokemon, CS:GO and other MOBAs share similar exp distribution mechanics)
Player A, Player B, Player C, Player D engages on Enemy A
Player A kills an Enemy A, Player B and Player C assisted in the kill.
Player A will be awarded with full xp and gold + shut down bounty.
Player B will awarded a fraction of xp and gold that Player A got.
Player C will get the same amount of xp and gold that Player B got.

Using the example,

Player A kill a zombie, Player A gets 1,000,000 XP
Player B assist/did not kill the zombie, Player B gets 1/2 of Player A: 500,000 XP

Player A is wearing a ruby in helm for 41%
Player A will get 1,410,000 for that zombie kill

Player B is wearing full xp gear for a total of 227%
Player B will get 1,650,000 for assisting in killing the zombie

Even then, I feel that awarding 1/2 to player B is still too much.
This might seem like a cry from a demon hunter / barb in speed rifts
Matter of the fact is, the reason why monks are abundant and most played in season 2 is because of this exact mechanic. Please don't take the same path for season 3.
If this does not change, Season 3 will just be a grind fest of the monk/crusader/wd with full leech gear looking for people willing to carry them through speed runs.

Conclusion:
Players who kill are not getting rewarded.
Players who use leech gear are getting more rewards.
This is messed up in several psychological and gamification aspect
Yes, or just increase the exp in greater rifts by 100% and disable exp% on gear. Ofc 100% is less then what you can get with exp gear, BUT you can run with full damage setup again which allows you to farm probably low 40's fast...
03/27/2015 11:41 PMPosted by gambler
Gem of Ease was made specially when starting a new character and you want to powerlevel it alone. The Rank 25 ability suggests it. I see no other use for the gem.


03/28/2015 03:22 AMPosted by Raiken
If you're already 1 shotting mobs in T6 than it would be worth having over anything else.


That totally depends on if you still one shot elites and junk after putting the gem of ease in your weapon. If you don't one shot them, it is absolutely the wrong call to make.
Why not have it so that the XP bonus is shared on to everybody in party?

That whay all 4 reap the benefits of a zdps/xp setup. The monk/wd/crus rack em up, rest of party kills, and all share xp!

It should be like that in both grifts and rifts, otherwise the XP gear dont really serve a purpose, bcuz noone in their right mind would use them if its not multiplying..
03/28/2015 03:53 AMPosted by Duan
As much as i like/enjoy the increase in XP in grifts, I feel l the bonus % xp on being multiplicative is bias to zdps / leech setups. XP based builds get over double the amount of xp incomparison to the "carries" who are doing most of the work in the group.

Players who play "carry" role in the group reap no benefits,
Because of this XP mechanic, players are forced into making a toon specifically to farm for XP because it is simply more efficient.

Take an example of a mechanic from a very popular MOBA, League of Legends:
(Pokemon, CS:GO and other MOBAs share similar exp distribution mechanics)
Player A, Player B, Player C, Player D engages on Enemy A
Player A kills an Enemy A, Player B and Player C assisted in the kill.
Player A will be awarded with full xp and gold + shut down bounty.
Player B will awarded a fraction of xp and gold that Player A got.
Player C will get the same amount of xp and gold that Player B got.

Using the example,

Player A kill a zombie, Player A gets 1,000,000 XP
Player B assist/did not kill the zombie, Player B gets 1/2 of Player A: 500,000 XP

Player A is wearing a ruby in helm for 41%
Player A will get 1,410,000 for that zombie kill

Player B is wearing full xp gear for a total of 227%
Player B will get 1,650,000 for assisting in killing the zombie

Even then, I feel that awarding 1/2 to player B is still too much.
This might seem like a cry from a demon hunter / barb in speed rifts
Matter of the fact is, the reason why monks are abundant and most played in season 2 is because of this exact mechanic. Please don't take the same path for season 3.
If this does not change, Season 3 will just be a grind fest of the monk/crusader/wd with full leech gear looking for people willing to carry them through speed runs.

Conclusion:
Players who kill are not getting rewarded.
Players who use leech gear are getting more rewards.
This is messed up in several psychological and gamification aspect


Pretty much why you're forced into playing a certain class or role.
No one is going to want to carry, be a Barb for example, if you can get double the EXP with a Crusader.
It's pretty much just play DH or a FC Barb if you want to DPS (and get little exp) or play a Support Monk/Crusader/WD (which everyone wants to play because extra xp%) or be left in the dirt.
XP Tip: Find a group as a DH, then say you're hiding your keys on your Monk and never switch back!

But I agree on the suggestion that the entire group's XP bonus should be summed up and applied to everyone. Would promote fairness.
Davlok:

Nyan and BDF tested the multiplicative issue yesterday although they didn't test gem of ease in particular and came with the same conclusion.

What I think people are questioning is the exp you get is lower in PTR for grift 35 vs being on live.

So people assume it's not multiplicative where it might be just scaled differently. A different rate of exp / grift level.

If you were to test anything else, I would ask you test if the exp between the mobs are the same between the ptr and live on different grift levels to see if the scaling line/curve has changed.

Thanks for your testing!!!
So, I have a question about the supposed change to the exp model that may or may not be coming in 2.2: Is it a reversion to the older model?

One of the main reasons I found season 2 so enjoyable was the incredibly fast leveling (and aside from a ruby in my helm at all times, I wasn't running an EXP-gear build). It dramatically reduced the sting of having to start from scratch, investing time in a new character rather than playing the NS one I had spent so many months/years creating.

I fear that if the leveling progression slows in season 3, I won't find it as enjoyable.

(And for anyone who wants to flame me, saying that seasons are about starting a new character from scratch... not for me, that's not my drive)
03/28/2015 09:09 AMPosted by Phatty
Davlok:

Nyan and BDF tested the multiplicative issue yesterday although they didn't test gem of ease in particular and came with the same conclusion.

What I think people are questioning is the exp you get is lower in PTR for grift 35 vs being on live.

So people assume it's not multiplicative where it might be just scaled differently. A different rate of exp / grift level.

If you were to test anything else, I would ask you test if the exp between the mobs are the same between the ptr and live on different grift levels to see if the scaling line/curve has changed.

Thanks for your testing!!!

As far as I can tell, the XP scaling is exactly the same. The current anniversary buff a extra variable. This thread was mostly to figure out where Gem of Ease was worth using ^_^
You guys are comparing apples and oranges. First of all, if anyone in your grp is running xp gear, then you all should be running full dps/xp gear and aren't using zdps sets. Why, you ask, because you are running speed/xp runs and should not be using a class with low dps, defeats the purpose of the run. LOL. If you do have a zdps member, then you should be pushing a higher GRift and in which case, anyone in your grp that is wearing xp gear should be kicked from grp for being a F*cktard and not gearing properly to push a higher GRift. Conclusion....Don't compare 2 entirely different things and mix them up and then say it needs to be fixed. That is partially why this game is screwed up to begin with.
Dude I have some data for you. Since I multibox, it's not too hard to gather... This is 2.1.2 data, so I might try again when 2.2 is released... Here it is.

I started a T6 game with my 4 characters. They all have +2.109,7% XP bonus from T6 and being in a party of 4, as written in the characters' sheets. Also,

- Character #1 has +721 XP per kill on gear,
- Character #2 has +528 XP per kill on gear,
- Character #3 has +978 XP per kill on gear,
- Character #4 has +156 XP per kill on gear,

Now I wrote down the current XP of each character, then I went out of New Tristram, killed a single "walking corpse", and checked the XP difference...

- Character #1, who has +721 XP per kill on gear, gained 1.297.740 XP
- Character #2, who has +528 XP per kill on gear, gained 1.293.469 XP
- Character #3, who has +978 XP per kill on gear, gained 1.303.414 XP
- Character #4, who has +156 XP per kill on gear, gained 1.285.248 XP

There is a 822 XP per kill difference between character #3 and character #4 but still, if my maths are correct, this is a 1.41% XP gain for a kill.

By extension if I gear my characters with +5.000 XP per kill (gem of ease etc.) I guess it'll bring maybe a 6-8% XP gain and I'm not sure it's worth it.
Seeing this thread quoted a few places recently, and PTR testing last weekend didn't yield any different results. A reddit response from Wyatt clarified no changes to the current XP calculation for US regions so nothing new to talk about.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/35a31c/how_is_xp_calculation_going_to_change_in_221/cr3589d?context=3

Small clarification to the OP is that the Gem of Ease & +XP secondaries do get multiplied by your Cain's/Hellfire/Leorics in GR, they are just so small it still won't matter at all. (0.1% to 0.2%) ^_^;
Davlok: if say the average t6 rift has say 1000 mobs to kill before the guardian then say you have 200 xp per kill, then

1000 x 200 = 200,000 x 16 =3,200,000.

If you make about 600 mill per rift, each piece will give you about 0.5% exp. If all your pieces have exp bonus or are ancient with higher exp given, you could end up with 5-6 percent exp bonus from the affixes. That's not that bad.

Now I don't know what the average amount of mobs you need to kill to spawn the RG. 1000 was pulled out of the sky.

Sokon and I did some very gross and inaccurate testing over 20 runs. It looked like that exp bonus per piece was around 0.5 to 1%.

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