Will it bother you if "New Legs drop same time for NS"?

General Discussion
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04/01/2015 02:11 PMPosted by WildPants
you are wrong
banners and such arent content, they are cosmetics

thats the difference

items are content and should be for everyone
costmetics can be mode-exclusive

one is content, one is cosmetics


Oh, you might have point there! I mean if I were persuaded that cosmetics aren't content. Properly stated they're just content you don't care about. But then there's:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/ancestors-grace

So really, and not at all surprisingly, no matter how we define content you're wrong. Or have I missed some other thread filled with the wailing of SC players about the injustice of being denied HC content?
04/01/2015 04:51 PMPosted by Taganov
04/01/2015 02:11 PMPosted by WildPants
you are wrong
banners and such arent content, they are cosmetics

thats the difference

items are content and should be for everyone
costmetics can be mode-exclusive

one is content, one is cosmetics


Oh, you might have point there! I mean if I were persuaded that cosmetics aren't content. Properly stated they're just content you don't care about. But then there's:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/ancestors-grace

So really, and not at all surprisingly, no matter how we define content you're wrong. Or have I missed some other thread filled with the wailing of SC players about the injustice of being denied HC content?
hardcore isnt denied content

try again, little troll
Blizzard ran into a conundrum some time ago. Mistakes between items, skills, and other mechanics allowed a small percentage of players to gain large advantages in a relatively small amount of time. If they could, they would just wipe the whole thing and start everything over. But... they really can't. When the game first came out, the RMAH was advertised as a way to safely buy items to skip out on some of the grind. It doesn't matter if those items aren't useful anymore, you wipe that, you have a ton of lawsuits. Even if you can win the lawsuits, the costs associated with litigating it all are astronomical. Because of that, they can't wipe the current state. The game will also never be completely perfect so mistakes will be made and it's only a matter of time before a slate is corrupted again. The only real solution is to have a reset every certain amount of time and that is what Seasons are. This is also where the push is- trying to get as many players as possible out of what they consider the corrupted slate into the fresh slate.

The problem with just seasons without exclusive gear that defines each season is that without significant rewards, you aren't going to get people to move over. Why? Because a large percentage of players have no reason to. The only way you can do this is to put the stuff that everyone wants there. Most players today are not affected at all by the consequences that the RMAH and previous item mistakes so unless they did something drastic, the whole mode will appear to have fallen flat.

What would happen if the rest of the cake beyond the flour was gated behind having to relevel up a new character every so often in World of Warcraft? Pay to play and then you'll likely spend most of your time going from 1 to whatever the level cap is now. They don't do that there because there's no purpose to doing that there.
04/01/2015 05:20 PMPosted by Harwinne
Blizzard ran into a conundrum some time ago. Mistakes between items, skills, and other mechanics allowed a small percentage of players to gain large advantages in a relatively small amount of time. If they could, they would just wipe the whole thing and start everything over. But... they really can't. When the game first came out, the RMAH was advertised as a way to safely buy items to skip out on some of the grind. It doesn't matter if those items aren't useful anymore, you wipe that, you have a ton of lawsuits. Even if you can win the lawsuits, the costs associated with litigating it all are astronomical. Because of that, they can't wipe the current state. The game will also never be completely perfect so mistakes will be made and it's only a matter of time before a slate is corrupted again. The only real solution is to have a reset every certain amount of time and that is what Seasons are. This is also where the push is- trying to get as many players as possible out of what they consider the corrupted slate into the fresh slate.

The problem with just seasons without exclusive gear that defines each season is that without significant rewards, you aren't going to get people to move over. Why? Because a large percentage of players have no reason to. The only way you can do this is to put the stuff that everyone wants there. Most players today are not affected at all by the consequences that the RMAH and previous item mistakes so unless they did something drastic, the whole mode will appear to have fallen flat.

What would happen if the rest of the cake beyond the flour was gated behind having to relevel up a new character every so often in World of Warcraft? Pay to play and then you'll likely spend most of your time going from 1 to whatever the level cap is now. They don't do that there because there's no purpose to doing that there.


+1 for that perspective.
04/01/2015 04:49 PMPosted by Dogf
04/01/2015 12:47 PMPosted by Wodensfury
What you really want, is all BiS gear and high paragon, so you can add a new legendary to your already boring cookie cutter toon to hammer out another 1000 hours.

So what? Oh, my god! People actually want to play the game! With the new loot! Using their characters! This is _unacceptable_! Blizzard, stop them!


They can, and they will. No one is, nor will be, stopping them.
I have said on a few occasions that if the seasons game is such a fresh start then at the end of it you don't get to merge the paragons or gear you get during the season. At the end your toon just gets wiped.

Hardcore players cannot merge their paragon or gear, why should seasons players.

I wonder how many would play on that premise. Hmm

I played S2 because 95% of my clan and friends did. NS became a ghost town.

Allow the new gear in both seasons and non-seasons. Only then is it really a choice
04/01/2015 05:40 PMPosted by YDFWM
I have said on a few occasions that if the seasons game is such a fresh start then at the end of it you don't get to merge the paragons or gear you get during the season. At the end your toon just gets wiped.

Hardcore players cannot merge their paragon or gear, why should seasons players.

I wonder how many would play on that premise. Hmm

I played S2 because 95% of my clan and friends did. NS became a ghost town.

Allow the new gear in both seasons and non-seasons. Only then is it really a choice


Season only items would never make it to non season then. And season players would still play seasons! And since everything gets wiped, season-only items would be even cooler than they are now.

Yet you wouldn't get a single one on your NS character. Not three months later, not ever.

Then with each slew of new items, by the 4th/5th season, the seasonal loot pool will be nearly double that of the non-season, leaving NS players even less incentive to stay in NS.
04/01/2015 05:40 PMPosted by YDFWM
I have said on a few occasions that if the seasons game is such a fresh start then at the end of it you don't get to merge the paragons or gear you get during the season. At the end your toon just gets wiped.

Hardcore players cannot merge their paragon or gear, why should seasons players.

I wonder how many would play on that premise. Hmm

I played S2 because 95% of my clan and friends did. NS became a ghost town.

Allow the new gear in both seasons and non-seasons. Only then is it really a choice


Wait, can hardcore season players not merge their paragon levels/gear with their non-season hardcore players at the end of season? I've never played HC in seasons but I assumed it worked the same as SC.

On a side note, I hope they keep the season exclusive gear. I mean, I wouldn't care either way but at least if they keep it season exclusive then we can keep having threads with people complaining about not having access to them at the exact same time as the seasons players. This is in spite of the fact that every single player of Diablo 3 has the exact same access to them, that is through playing seasons.
Not really, since I don't play seasons much. Just doing it for the transmogs.
04/01/2015 04:51 PMPosted by Taganov
But then there's:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/ancestors-grace

So really, and not at all surprisingly, no matter how we define content you're wrong. Or have I missed some other thread filled with the wailing of SC players about the injustice of being denied HC content?

This amulet gets raised quite a bit in this debate by season-exclusive-item advocates looking for another straw to grasp at.

No, you haven't missed any threads filled with the outraged wailing of SC players. You know why we don't care about that exclusive amulet?

1. Hardcore, unlike seasons, _is_ actually harder than the default game mode. It arguably merits exclusive loot rewards (unlike seasons).

2, and more importantly: The amulet would be completely irrelevant in softcore. Its power is hardcore-specific, making it an _intrinsic_ reward (valuable only to those playing the mode anyway). If the season exclusive items were likewise _intrinsic_ rewards, with powers restricted to things like "chance to gain 10 leaderboard points on hit", we likewise wouldn't care.

But they aren't, are they? They are _extrinsic_ rewards, with powers potentially of interest to every single player of the game, regardless of whether they give a rat's a$$ about seasons. This is the mistake Blizzard has made with these incentives.
04/01/2015 05:20 PMPosted by Harwinne
The game will also never be completely perfect so mistakes will be made and it's only a matter of time before a slate is corrupted again. The only real solution is to have a reset every certain amount of time and that is what Seasons are. This is also where the push is- trying to get as many players as possible out of what they consider the corrupted slate into the fresh slate.

Seasons fails at that, sorry, because everyone ends up back in the "corrupted slate" at the end of the season anyway. Seasons fails doubly at that because each season so far has itself been full of the same sort of arguably "corrupting" exploits also.

04/01/2015 05:20 PMPosted by Harwinne
What would happen if the rest of the cake beyond the flour was gated behind having to relevel up a new character every so often in World of Warcraft? Pay to play and then you'll likely spend most of your time going from 1 to whatever the level cap is now. They don't do that there because there's no purpose to doing that there.

... and there's no more purpose to doing it here, either. Yet here we are.
We need a blizzard post saying that the 2nd expansion will be season exclusive and cost $120. we are running out of time for April fools.
03/31/2015 06:38 PMPosted by StoneCold
I don't play Seasons.

In my opinion, Season-only Legendary items are needed to compensate players who choose to leave their main accounts, and permanent progress, sit idle, while they play a temporary game mode.

In my opinion, everybody should give this topic a rest. It's not likely to change, and reading about it in every second thread is getting old fast.

Steve Austin


For once I sort of agree with StoneCold.

I would add a little of my own opinion though.

First of all, I play both season and non-season characters, so I want reason to play both, I don't want to just let one sit idle.

Also, I think there should be some things that are completely exclusive to a special event or season. I think how awesome they are should be determined by how difficult they are to get within the short amount of time given. I think there should be some items that start out seasonally exclusive then after the initial ladder race is done (usually way before the season actually ends), I think then that it doesn't matter much if you allow items that will become available at the end of the season to become available a tiny bit sooner. Finally, I think there should be some changes and new items in patches that apply across the board without regard to seasons however if my second idea of releasing some of the seasonal items earlier were used, I don't think this last option would be that necessary.

Anyway, I like the Seasons are more than just a competitive race. I see nothing wrong with that race, but I like that there are other things we can do or hunt for in Seasons.
04/01/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Zzat
Yet you wouldn't get a single one on your NS character.

04/01/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Zzat
Season only items would never make it to non season then.

Well, yes you would as they would become available just like seasons just not carried over from the season.

04/01/2015 06:07 PMPosted by cbwjm
Wait, can hardcore season players not merge their paragon levels/gear with their non-season hardcore players at the end of season?

What I meant was you can't merge your NS HC and NORMAL toons
04/01/2015 07:16 PMPosted by ShadedClaw
We need a blizzard post saying that the 2nd expansion will be season exclusive and cost $120. we are running out of time for April fools.


Please don't give them these sorts of ideas.
04/01/2015 07:24 PMPosted by YDFWM
Well, yes you would as they would become available just like seasons just not carried over from the season.


It'll be a cold day in Diablo hell when Blizzard wipes season characters/items/paragon at the end of each season, but I can empathize with your wishful thinking.
04/01/2015 06:49 PMPosted by Dogf

This amulet gets raised quite a bit in this debate by season-exclusive-item advocates looking for another straw to grasp at.

No, you haven't missed any threads filled with the outraged wailing of SC players. You know why we don't care about that exclusive amulet?

1. Hardcore, unlike seasons, _is_ actually harder than the default game mode. It arguably merits exclusive loot rewards (unlike seasons).

2, and more importantly: The amulet would be completely irrelevant in softcore. Its power is hardcore-specific, making it an _intrinsic_ reward (valuable only to those playing the mode anyway). If the season exclusive items were likewise _intrinsic_ rewards, with powers restricted to things like "chance to gain 10 leaderboard points on hit", we likewise wouldn't care.

But they aren't, are they? They are _extrinsic_ rewards, with powers potentially of interest to every single player of the game, regardless of whether they give a rat's a$$ about seasons. This is the mistake Blizzard has made with these incentives.


You guys have advanced this rhetoric about exclusive content being bad for the game, but when you get called on the fact that there has always been mode exclusive content, then it's something else. No one had a thing to say about exclusive content, but now we're all supposed to be up in arms about how unfair it is? Come off it; it's completely disingenuous and the worst way to start a discussion.

Who am I kidding? It's not even a discussion when your mascot Wildpants is disliking and reporting any post he disagrees with on his multiple accounts when it's clear he doesn't even understand what's being said.

FYI, I'm not some seasons die hard, either. I skipped S1, played S2 and will more than likely skip S3. You guys need some objectivity.
04/01/2015 08:42 PMPosted by Taganov
You guys have advanced this rhetoric about exclusive content being bad for the game, but when you get called on the fact that there has always been mode exclusive content, then it's something else. No one had a thing to say about exclusive content, but now we're all supposed to be up in arms about how unfair it is? Come off it; it's completely disingenuous and the worst way to start a discussion.

*Shrug* I explained clearly above why the amulet you referred to does not constitute a precedent that the season exclusives are merely following. That's my only stake in this particular sub-discussion.
04/01/2015 11:48 AMPosted by DoomBringer
04/01/2015 11:42 AMPosted by Yura
If anyone, as a non-season only player, has an issue with that, it's because they're impatient.


A bold claim. However, it's just your opinion.

That name calling is becoming annoying (from both sides).

Then, since non-season get access to the same items that season players do, just later, tell me why their complaints are not simply drawn from impatience?

The only argument I've seen against it is, "Why should I wait?"

Also, pointing out impatience isn't name calling, unless you meant that as a general statement that just happened to be in a reply to me. In which case, I agree.
04/01/2015 05:36 PMPosted by Zzat
They can, and they will. No one is, nor will be, stopping them.


They do have a Monopoly at the moment so they can do whatever they want. However, they are creating a very unhappy community of players which are just waiting on something better with the same arpg style. Once a game like the Lost Ark is made to suit the NA and European market, or games like Grim Dawn / PoE are taken by an influential gaming company and redesigned, Blizz can kiss their as*s goodbye. Most players will forget about Diablo and move on to something else. The only ones remaining in D3 will be the very hard-core players who love this game no matter what, and even they will move on eventually.

Blizz do not have any competition and they are using this situation to their advantage. But this will not last forever. Once they have some real competition we will see a much better Diablo game.

04/01/2015 03:38 AMPosted by TheTias
If seasons become a ghost town, then the premise they were built on is false and so to were the players' reasons for wanting seasons. I suspect many of the "haters" as they're called (which I don't agree with in terms of name calling) are afraid that if seasonal exclusives are discontinued that seasons will lose their playerbase, or at least enough of them to show that the fresh start wasn't really the reason for wanting seasons to begin with.


I called them haters because I refer to a specific group of trolls who try to sabotage every post like this one. None of them play seasons but they are responding with negative comments to every single S/NS post that I’ve seen. I was surprised they didn’t say anything this time.

Regardless, your argument is spot on. I completely agree. Nobody will be able to provide a valid reason for exclusive items, not even Blizz devs.

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