Season exclusives are hurting non season experience

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04/12/2015 06:38 PMPosted by Dogf
... and a high tolerance for redundant tedium to do the same things you've already done to get back to where you were. I want to play my existing characters in the real game, please.


I agree completely. I hate leveling characters up. I grew tired of it about 8 years ago in WoW, yet because I wanted a max level character of every class, was forced to level alts up again and again, seeing the same content again and again. Wasting my time, again and again because there were zero consequences to leveling a character up, zero choices to make that made it different the next time around.

Same thing happened in D3. I already went through the story once, going through again and again was pointless, but I had no choice, especially since I started at release and had to go through it about 4 times to get to 60.
04/12/2015 06:23 PMPosted by Lane
Here's the problem though, with your statement, you claim that seasons is exclusive, however, that is not the truth at all, from Blizzard's point of view. There are zero barriers of entry to play in seasons, except for the fact you don't want to.

Reading this, I'm not exactly sure you actually even understand what's being discussed here, and I'm not saying this to, ehm, be mean, but that I'm genuinely concerned that you have not understood a thing about what's being discussed here.
04/12/2015 07:08 PMPosted by Vresiberba
04/12/2015 06:23 PMPosted by Lane
Here's the problem though, with your statement, you claim that seasons is exclusive, however, that is not the truth at all, from Blizzard's point of view. There are zero barriers of entry to play in seasons, except for the fact you don't want to.

Reading this, I'm not exactly sure you actually even understand what's being discussed here, and I'm not saying this to, ehm, be mean, but that I'm genuinely concerned that you have not understood a thing about what's being discussed here.


My feelings aren't hurt, but I think I do know your grievance. You are complaining that items are exclusive in seasons, as in, you can't get them unless you play seasons. What I'm pointing out is that Blizzard doesn't see that exclusivity as you do. They see that the items are available in a game mode that anyone can play, and thus, the items are not exclusive. The fact that you have to play seasons doesn't matter to Blizzard in terms of exclusivity. Since anyone can play, they don't feel the items are exclusive. To Blizzard, exclusive items would be items that you can only get if you are certain paragon level, or other barrier of entry.

Am I still missing the point? If so, please enlighten me.
Lane does get it Vresi, hes just referring that according to the developers logic item exclusivity does serve a purpose on seasons and that technically everyone is welcome aboard their new system without distinction (therefore seasons arent technically exclusive by principle).

It sounds nice and dandy but this whole technically inclusive thing falls appart the moment the other game modes arent faring as well and arent actually supported in the same way, in a scenario where season experience its not appealing to you as a player then what? you are stuck with a smaller item pool and therefore a different endgame experience (that due to lack of diversity generally its considered a 2nd class one) AND THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE.

We either need workarounds for this item exclusivity or get it removed removed completely OR make the non seasonal game mode as equally appealing in terms of diversity or quality of endgame activities because currently theres enough evidence they are not of the same quality at all.
04/10/2015 11:47 AMPosted by Colt
The item experience specially its an essential & big component of the game and it shouldnt be polarized like that and punished for nearly half a year for not choosing a specific mode.


This.

I've been playing this game since Day 1 and but dislike the idea of having to level new characters just to obtain Seasons only items. This means waiting months to get those new items, spending countless more hours or weeks grinding to get a decent one, and having to do this over and over becomes extremely boring and mundane.

I've loved the Diablo franchise since D2 but have not touched this game for weeks cos it's more of the same. Somewhere down the line, I decided that my time was better spent doing other things... even if if was something as mindless as watching tv. This saddens me, but c'est la vie.
04/10/2015 11:47 AMPosted by Colt
TLDR:

As an original mode player seasons are splitting my items, my builds and my friend list.
Remove atleast the item exclusivity introduced on season after 2-3 weeks of season launch to keep original mode relevant or give nonseasonal players a sensible workaround the exclusivity


Hello Colt!

Personally I do not like seasons in D3 as D3 is currently designed. Characters are too flat. Restarting to level to 70, then paragons, and then almost the same exact gear again and again is pretty much a meaningless and repetitive experience that will soon get old for most people. Until that is fixed the current design of season is doomed to fail.

Also, the current design of bringing out new legendary items every 4 months to artificially inflate season participation is also doomed to fail. It is not sustainable long term. Devs wont support the content refresh forever.

The primary issue I have is the same you mention, Gating build defining legendaries by seasons is wrong. Even if it is temporary. It really puts those of us that don't want to run seasons in a bind.

That said, what should seasons be designed like? Season only legendary items are ok imo. Even season only legendary items that never drop in non-season, where you have to run seasons at least once to get the items is fine with me.

Examples good seasonal only items.... gem of ease, broken crown, boon of the hoarder, krelms buff set....these are all interesting "adventure" items that are not needed for builds... if it were only items like this I'd find gating seasonal items to be ok. And making them drop seasonal only permanently would keep seasons going to a certain degree, as there will always be items that one has to play seasons at least once to obtain. Those of us that hate the idea of seasons might suffer the boredom of releveling once or twice to snag an interesting item, but it wouldn't be something that made us feel forced to rerun the lame hamster wheel every 4 months....
--- Please stop making this "seasonal only" ---
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16952875384?page=1

^ Another good thread to read about item exclusivity, to quote some:

04/08/2015 10:54 AMPosted by Kinowek
It makes complete sense. Seasons, for many people, are utterly pointless. I have no desire to regrind for X hours when I already have 1 or more of each class at 70, from scratch. I don't care about cosmetic upgrades or Leaderboards. I would like the new legendaries without waiting extra months, repeatedly, for each new group of legendaries.

That said, these things have all been said thousands of times already, as well as the limited counterarguments for keeping seasonal exclusive legendaries.

The problem is, Blizzard realizes Seasons are a bad idea, so they are attempting to coerce people into playing Seasons with their gated, exclusive legendaries. It makes much more sense from a customer enjoyment sense to have new legendaries available in Seasons and Non-Seasons, then everyone can play whatever version of Diablo 3 they want without penalties, but Blizzard is attempting to force people to play in a certain way.

This is unlikely to change.
04/11/2015 10:00 PMPosted by Lane
They barely count as content, they are just playing the game again from scratch.


Which means they're pointless either way. I've played 2 seasons already, and can't help but feel they're a meaningless waste of time. What they're doing here is force people into their artificial longevity scheme to pretend the game has any lasting potential without actually putting the necessary effort to give the game true longevity. Grinding everything all over again to do the same thing isn't fun. Without many meaningful options, this game's as good as dead. And yes, I'm aware they're slugging their way towards adding new ones, but the development process is already ridiculously slow. Why should anyone be penalized with limited diversity just because these guys can't deliver meaningful content updates for everyone in a timely manner like other ARPG developers do?

I'm also aware a lot of folks seem to believe those updates need to be tied to microtransactions and what not. Aren't they already working on that for China, anyways? Heck, they could add cosmetic MTs like PoE and make it profitable. At least it seems clear they don't want a P2W scenario again, so why not support an actually efficient development cycle this way? Seems to work wonders for GGG and Gazillion, doesn't it?

Think about it, this game is as diversity-starved as it gets, yet the clueless design team is now gating some of the few decent items just because some folks don't want to partake into their make believe game? How lazy is that, seriously? And what the hell does that have to do with their supposed emphasis on "the journey"? That's right, it has absolutely nothing to do with it, and they're just using this as an excuse to try and make believe their lazy design is somewhat worthwhile.
Porting / early termination option:

- ability to terminate early
- carry over all items obtained
- penalty of xp = 0 xp will be carried over
- pay a "X" amount of set or % fees

*set fee could be either 10% or 500,000 gold which ever is greater so that players can't take advantage of this early termination.

As in business, when you sign up for a contract service (seasons), you have the option to terminate the contract early but will have a penalty (losing all xp)
My opinion is that season should have exclusive items that non season would never get after season ends.Something to make you play the season.You played season and got the item then they will be transfered after season ends.You didn't played season then no items for you.

I don't think this topic needs a thread.It's a simple choice,play season or don't play season.
And the reason with i hate leveling and bla bla doesn't really cut it.To level to 70 takes 4 hours and then to gear for t6-gr35 takes you max 2 days.
04/14/2015 02:07 AMPosted by Khronos
My opinion is that season should have exclusive items that non season would never get after season ends.Something to make you play the season.You played season and got the item then they will be transfered after season ends.You didn't played season then no items for you.

I don't think this topic needs a thread.It's a simple choice,play season or don't play season.
And the reason with i hate leveling and bla bla doesn't really cut it.To level to 70 takes 4 hours and then to gear for t6-gr35 takes you max 2 days.
its not a choice though, thus the need for such threads
Everyone complains about how how this is an inferior game to D2, but guess what guys?

D2 had seasons with exclusives!!!
04/14/2015 02:19 AMPosted by BeastlyBeast
Everyone complains about how how this is an inferior game to D2, but guess what guys?

D2 had seasons with exclusives!!!
D2 also had an economy and offline play with mods that allowed those ladder only items to drop in nonladder as well

totally differant games. try again, little troll
04/14/2015 02:07 AMPosted by Khronos
I don't think this topic needs a thread.It's a simple choice,play season or don't play season.


Play "optional" complete item pool or dont play "optional" complete item pool, I cant believe the issue isnt clear for some people.

The decision making isnt the deal here, the issue is why this problem was created by the devs on first place separating the item and player experience like that and affecting the experience of the original game mode among other things as a result.

The item experience specially its an essential & big component of the game and it shouldnt be polarized like that and punished for nearly half a year for not choosing a specific mode.

If they want to enhance the atractiveness of seasons, there are another game defining factors like customization, titles, achievements, experience, monsters, maps, and events they can come up with, if ALL of that paired up with a fresht start isnt enough then season as a game mode shouldnt exist, its the fact they mess with item diversity in particular that really creates an offense to the game and to the original game mode imo and ultimately to you or me as diablo 3 players.

=================================================================
04/14/2015 02:19 AMPosted by BeastlyBeast
but guess what guys?

D2 had seasons with exclusives!!!


There is a very nice thread going around similar topic wich is

D2 ladders vs D3 seasons, for sake of discussion I quote the OP here
(warning descriptive language XD) :

SPDCPA:
Would every one of you people with a severe deficiency in a comparative reasoning who has ever dared say "D2 had Ladders. D3 Seasons are good." please spay or neuter yourselves for the betterment of humanity?

D2X had an economy based on SoJs which was (periodically) massively corrupted by duping. It was good design to periodically reset that economy by encouraging people to play a resetting mode. D3X has no economy. Period. Seasons serve no purpose there.

D2X had skill and stat points which were (until later) irrevocably assigned. Each character was potentially unique in their stats and skill builds depending on their target gear and intended build. D3X has neither stat nor skill points. The only difference between any given level 70 of a class is that season ones get better loot tables. That's a poor and self referential way to justify seasons.


Then followed by another comments from community about season exclusivity like:

04/11/2015 04:00 PMPosted by Noxifer
The players wanted Ladder, something that resembled the Ladder in D2, a time for fresh start and something to keep the prices of the items stable. We ended up with a Ladder, that had nothing to do with D2. Nothing about stable prices anyways, since trading got removed.
The current Seasons and Ladder are more like MMO patches that just introduce new gear, that makes the old gear obsolete, and as a result it forces the players into participating not for the sake of fresh start or stable prices, but for the sake of specific items that they need to complete their builds
^^^^entitlement much

Praises boosting, mods, cheating, and duping methods as ways that made D2 a better game with ladder.

Doesn't like the fact that developers listened to the Community and added seasons with new legendary items(which roll for everyone after the season) that much of a problem for you stop playing or switch classes for four months.

Really one legendary is content that you believe keeps you from grinding on the same hamster wheel.

Idk how you guys think, but if I spent two years of paychecks for one bottle of exclusive sauce.. ...
in all reality none of the seasonal items were ever really build defining. you STILL could run whatever build you wanted, but just did a bit less damage than seasonal players could pull off.
04/14/2015 01:00 PMPosted by Smashbros
^^^^entitlement much


The player's concerns (at least mine) about item exclusivity go a bit further than unjustified entitlement, for 2 years the game had a basic rule: any player of any game mode has exactly the same item pool.

Item pool diversity is considered one of the key components of the diablo end game experience (this makes sense right?) and Diablo3 2nd design pillar states --> ENDGAME FOR EVERYONE.

This philosophy implies then that all the game activities (and the experience they provide) should be all equally available in quantity and quality to everyone regardless of hours played or game mode chosen.

Personally Im simply looking forward to devs enforcing their own philosophies troughout all the game modes, (specially nonseasonal) if that makes sense...

04/14/2015 01:00 PMPosted by Smashbros
Really one legendary is content that you believe keeps you from grinding on the same hamster wheel.


On short, Yes.
among other beliefs.

04/14/2015 01:30 PMPosted by nod12
in all reality none of the seasonal items were ever really build defining. you STILL could run whatever build you wanted, but just did a bit less damage than seasonal players could pull off.


Got any good examples? What is a bit less damage to you?

Because I believe that stamement its completey innaccurate in different levels, DPS wise a Season 2 gungdo monk for instance offered a lot more power under certain conditions and builds and it wasnt a +5% dps difference over the non seasonal, we are talking about a big chain of explosions worth +2 billions each that non seasonal monks didnt have access to until now but it turns out new patched raiment set its much better than that now so the gungdo experience its not now as enjoyable for current non seasonals than how it was back then on Season2, therefore that specific item lost a lot of its cool appeal and purpose on the current non seasonal experience and that is what the thread issue is about. Why are we ending up with 2 total different experiences?

Another example your statement is at the very least incomplete is that this time issue on season 3 vs non seasonal monk its not even DPS wise as several important defensive options were introduced on seasonal 3 items (melee reduction and bracer dmg reductions) that could complete the nonseasonal melee monk gamestyle incredibly well, but they cant use it.

Also I havent even mentioned yet the season 2 legendary gems as they made a HUGE difference in monk survival and additionally it remains to be seen the impact on gems for season 3 as well.

I think a lot of peole really is underestimating the negative impact item exclusivity is having on the nonseasonal experience.
04/14/2015 02:07 AMPosted by Khronos
I don't think this topic needs a thread.It's a simple choice,play season or don't play season.

Sure, play the mode that has more loot, or play the mode that has less loot. Nice "choice".

04/14/2015 02:07 AMPosted by Khronos
My opinion is that season should have exclusive items that non season would never get after season ends.Something to make you play the season.You played season and got the item then they will be transfered after season ends.You didn't played season then no items for you.

OK, as long as non-season gets different exclusive items that never drop in season. Something to make you play non-season. Then it would actually be a choice.

Or, even better and more equitably, season and non-season both get the same items. Again, the "choice" of what mode to play becomes an actual choice.
04/14/2015 05:17 PMPosted by Dogf
OK, as long as non-season gets different exclusive items that never drop in season. Something to make you play non-season. Then it would actually be a choice.

Or, even better and more equitably, season and non-season both get the same items. Again, the "choice" of what mode to play becomes an actual choice.


I think the meat and potatoes on this topic about choice, is that True choice exists when all options have equal value (or a relatively comparable one ) and on this kind of game item diversity really holds a lot of value by itself.

So when we introduce item exclusivity on seasons that alone creates a distorted illusion of choice between the game modes that holds a negative impact when choosing the non seasonal experience on the long run.

In other words actively choosing nonseasonal mode holds less value right now in terms of the item diversity & coolness (one of the key components in the game) and for that reason its not an ideal true choice as you are simply missing out something really valuable, the diversity itself.
04/10/2015 11:53 AMPosted by BobWitchDR
Remove the item exclusivity introduced on season after 2-3 weeks of season launch


Why have it at all? Why do seasons need incentives? Let those who enjoy starting from scratch play for that reason alone and let everyone else simply play.


This, somehow, reminds me of the recent incident that doesn't really have anything to do with this said idea. But funny thing is that they removed something out of PTR that they were about to introduce. I kinda feel like PTR is the Alpha, Season is Beta. And finally, the finished product would be for the non-season.

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