Wizards still not in group leaderboards

Wizard
04/08/2015 08:57 AMPosted by Boozor
04/08/2015 08:34 AMPosted by Lich
Just a heads up.

Don't mean to shut down any wiz hope, but here are some insights.

DH no longer use M6 in future GRs. They will be using UE6 along with max disc gear, using Kridershot and Meticulous Bolt. Therefore, they need to be completly regeared.

Deadman's Legacy on seasons is a completely useless item, because no one will be using Multishot, they will be using Elemental Arrow, ball of lightning.

In terms of damage output, a fully optimized lightning UE6 DH will do 3x the dmg as pre 2.2 Fire M6 CB DH with zdog (see DH forums for thread), If the pre 2.2 GR cap is 65 on NA, you are probably looking at GR72+ clears end game Era 3.

If the highest clear on PTR with wiz party full of optimized ancient gear is ~GR60, we are looking at 4x-5x power gap between DH and Wiz

Wizs need to wake up.


Fully aware of this build.

You make it sound easy to find an ancient kridershot and a good meticulous bolts lol


fairly certain top DH already have several Mbolt from 2.1 era with disc, as well as a usable ancient krider.

The challenge is to get disc and high dmg on ancient krider, 15%~ more dmg with 12 more disc. Gathering the optimized UE set shouldn take that long. I suspect 67-68 on NA will be cleared within 2 weeks or so. The power gap will start to enlarge, starting next week.

That's my predictions, but I ll let the facts speak for themselves in a few weeks.
04/08/2015 08:56 AMPosted by Boozor
04/08/2015 08:34 AMPosted by vishnu
...
Same build as in 2.1.2, you just run full M6 instead of RoRG.


What is the generator ? Still use LFB as spender?

Doesn't really matter much which generator, most people use focus just because it is the most hatred.
04/08/2015 08:57 AMPosted by Boozor
04/08/2015 08:34 AMPosted by Lich
Just a heads up.

Don't mean to shut down any wiz hope, but here are some insights.

DH no longer use M6 in future GRs. They will be using UE6 along with max disc gear, using Kridershot and Meticulous Bolt. Therefore, they need to be completly regeared.

Deadman's Legacy on seasons is a completely useless item, because no one will be using Multishot, they will be using Elemental Arrow, ball of lightning.

In terms of damage output, a fully optimized lightning UE6 DH will do 3x the dmg as pre 2.2 Fire M6 CB DH with zdog (see DH forums for thread), If the pre 2.2 GR cap is 65 on NA, you are probably looking at GR72+ clears end game Era 3.

If the highest clear on PTR with wiz party full of optimized ancient gear is ~GR60, we are looking at 4x-5x power gap between DH and Wiz

Wizs need to wake up.


Fully aware of this build.

You make it sound easy to find an ancient kridershot and a good meticulous bolts lol


I have an ancient kridershot but with a native socket roll =(, it is 4 hatred at least..., anyway was just wondering what the best meticulous bolts rolls are, have one with dex, 20 ias, 15% elemental arrrow, 7%rcr and vit I think, can rerolll vit to 10 chc, non ancient, 34% ball speed, are this ones good? And what are the best rolls?
04/08/2015 10:27 AMPosted by OscarMK
I have an ancient kridershot but with a native socket roll =(, it is 4 hatred at least..., anyway was just wondering what the best meticulous bolts rolls are, have one with dex, 20 ias, 15% elemental arrrow, 7%rcr and vit I think, can rerolll vit to 10 chc, non ancient, 34% ball speed, are this ones good? And what are the best rolls?


This is why Met bolts are so hard to get and why people saying they are easy to get is a) stupidly lucky or b) stupid.

The best MBs have the following

1) Max Disc roll
2) 30% to 31% Ball speed - huge DPS loss the higher you go, much less ticks as % increases
3) Does not roll CC% native
4) Want elemental arrow roll

Perfect MB

1000DEX
20% IAS
10% CHC
15% Elemental Arrow

+Max Disc
31% Ball lightning Movement (30/31 same tick rate, 31 travels faster to target therefore "better")
M6 and TR6 will definitely rule the LB's early on until people start getting UE set + complimentary items. Atm it's just a matter of wizards farming the top end gear and actually trying to group up and do higher GRs.

Top 500 Wiz Ranks 4-man
RoGeR - 119
JKL - 199
rafaelmgbr - 240
pedro - 240
muz - 253
Vash - 364
NeoisGod - 386
no one has even tried pushing top GR's with wizards yet. Roger's wiz was using completely unoptimized gear (non ancient, no tal's set) and still managed 59. With Tal's set (~6.7 effective multiplier) and ancient gear (30% dps increase), you'll likely see an increase of ~14-16 GRs, placing us in the mid-70's. I think that's a good place to be.
04/08/2015 12:46 PMPosted by kokopuffs
no one has even tried pushing top GR's with wizards yet. Roger's wiz was using completely unoptimized gear (non ancient, no tal's set) and still managed 59. With Tal's set (~6.7 effective multiplier) and ancient gear (30% dps increase), you'll likely see an increase of ~14-16 GRs, placing us in the mid-70's. I think that's a good place to be.


What do you mean by no tals set? What gear did he use to clear that 59 then?, 59 isn't easy.
standard firebird 6 + avoid's dual hydra build.
04/08/2015 08:34 AMPosted by Lich
Just a heads up.

Don't mean to shut down any wiz hope, but here are some insights.

DH no longer use M6 in future GRs. They will be using UE6 along with max disc gear, using Kridershot and Meticulous Bolt. Therefore, they need to be completly regeared.

Deadman's Legacy on seasons is a completely useless item, because no one will be using Multishot, they will be using Elemental Arrow, ball of lightning.

In terms of damage output, a fully optimized lightning UE6 DH will do 3x the dmg as pre 2.2 Fire M6 CB DH with zdog (see DH forums for thread), If the pre 2.2 GR cap is 65 on NA, you are probably looking at GR72+ clears end game Era 3.

If the highest clear on PTR with wiz party full of optimized ancient gear is ~GR60, we are looking at 4x-5x power gap between DH and Wiz

Wizs need to wake up.


fully optimized BLUE DH will do 3x the damage of 2.1.2 fire m6, which has no access to focus/restraint (a big part of UE damage). With the addition of F+R into m6 calculations, the damage is more like 50-75% more.

In 2.1.2, there was a very little known wizard build that could output even more DPS than m6 in certain situations at full tilt. With F+R and tal's, it will output at least twice a fully optimized BLUE DH in dense AoE situations and be about 1/2-2/3 as effective on the RG.
04/08/2015 12:46 PMPosted by kokopuffs
no one has even tried pushing top GR's with wizards yet. Roger's wiz was using completely unoptimized gear (non ancient, no tal's set) and still managed 59. With Tal's set (~6.7 effective multiplier) and ancient gear (30% dps increase), you'll likely see an increase of ~14-16 GRs, placing us in the mid-70's. I think that's a good place to be.
Isn't that very optimistic? I mean bugged barb in PTR only managed GR70 and they were already stronger than Tals at that point. I can definitely see Tal's pushing mid 60s but mid 70s might be a far reach.
04/08/2015 01:27 PMPosted by muz
04/08/2015 12:46 PMPosted by kokopuffs
no one has even tried pushing top GR's with wizards yet. Roger's wiz was using completely unoptimized gear (non ancient, no tal's set) and still managed 59. With Tal's set (~6.7 effective multiplier) and ancient gear (30% dps increase), you'll likely see an increase of ~14-16 GRs, placing us in the mid-70's. I think that's a good place to be.
Isn't that very optimistic? I mean bugged barb in PTR only managed GR70 and they were already stronger than Tals at that point. I can definitely see Tal's pushing mid 60s but mid 70s might be a far reach.


Nah. nah. that's defeatist thinking.
04/08/2015 08:03 AMPosted by Boozor
Day 1 =/= Era 3


Exactly.

We got half a set's pieces (or more for non-PTR savy players) and another full set to gear. We got fire elemental % to regear (off).

DH has at best 4 pieces to farm, same elements as always used.

We got more farming to do to catch up, but we will and soon 2 DH instead of 1 DH + Wiz will under perform.
I just ran a 54 in 3 player with wizard as dps (zdps crusader + zdps wd). Went extremely smoothly.
Wizards are better than last patch, period.
04/08/2015 06:09 AMPosted by BDF
Give it time.


I think Wizards will be on the leaderboards, just not on the top. DHs harder to gear, but considerably more powerful. Id guess Wizards top out about....63, maybe.

On the leaderboards? Sure. Competitive? Dont think so. Not yet.
04/08/2015 02:17 PMPosted by Venaliter
04/08/2015 06:09 AMPosted by BDF
Give it time.


I think Wizards will be on the leaderboards, just not on the top. DHs harder to gear, but considerably more powerful. Id guess Wizards top out about....63, maybe.

On the leaderboards? Sure. Competitive? Dont think so. Not yet.


Wizard is in the exact same place as previous patches. They got a boost, while other classes got a larger boost.

I can see a Wiz / Wiz team doing low - mid 60s, DH / Wiz team doing mid 60s, and DH DH team doing early to mid 70s. In that case, no one will play wiz for competitive content just like before.

Another critical flaw wizards seem to forget is the their broken 2nd life passive, which is extremely unfriendly for higher group GRs.

But nonetheless, no die hard wiz will believe that for now, or admit they are wrong, only facts prove them wrong few months later, they go into silent, defensive and whining mode. It has happened 2-3 times since RoS, it will happen again.
04/08/2015 02:31 PMPosted by Lich
04/08/2015 02:17 PMPosted by Venaliter
...

I think Wizards will be on the leaderboards, just not on the top. DHs harder to gear, but considerably more powerful. Id guess Wizards top out about....63, maybe.

On the leaderboards? Sure. Competitive? Dont think so. Not yet.


Wizard is in the exact same place as previous patches. They got a boost, while other classes got a larger boost.

I can see a Wiz / Wiz team doing low - mid 60s, DH / Wiz team doing mid 60s, and DH DH team doing early to mid 70s. In that case, no one will play wiz for competitive content just like before.

Another critical flaw wizards seem to forget is the their broken 2nd life passive, which is extremely unfriendly for higher group GRs.

But nonetheless, no die hard wiz will believe that for now, or admit they are wrong, only facts prove them wrong few months later, they go into silent, defensive and whining mode. It has happened 2-3 times since RoS, it will happen again.


time will tell. Let's come back to this post in 2 months and see who was in error.

Of course, wizards may not be in the top clear. But my feeling is that we will be in the top 5.
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I think Wizards will be on the leaderboards, just not on the top. DHs harder to gear, but considerably more powerful. Id guess Wizards top out about....63, maybe.

On the leaderboards? Sure. Competitive? Dont think so. Not yet.


Another critical flaw wizards seem to forget is the their broken 2nd life passive, which is extremely bad


Been working on this. Got it answered on the dev QA. I actually caught flak in chat for asking about it. "Just pick a better passive" they said.

Retards.

Its at about 1 hr 21 mins in on the QA
04/08/2015 01:26 PMPosted by kokopuffs
fully optimized BLUE DH will do 3x the damage of 2.1.2 fire m6, which has no access to focus/restraint (a big part of UE damage). With the addition of F+R into m6 calculations, the damage is more like 50-75% more.

In 2.1.2, there was a very little known wizard build that could output even more DPS than m6 in certain situations at full tilt. With F+R and tal's, it will output at least twice a fully optimized BLUE DH in dense AoE situations and be about 1/2-2/3 as effective on the RG.


Ya now tell them the down side.

It's centered on flame blade buff and that buff drop's to crap on single target Greater Rift boss fighting.

So basically a good AOE clearer and bad single target dmg.
If we could somehow squeeze a 2 piece firebird into our build, that will solve the Unstable 2nd life passive.

Right now, I completed GR 51. That's no where near our limit. With the right tuning, I can see the wizards catching Gaby (GR solo 55). So many new items, sets. We still haven'T figured everything I believe. Tals set is probably the best thing that happened in a long (and I must admit I was wrong from my initial PTR testings...).

Are we on par with DH? Possibly not. But I can see us doing much better. Maybe we can do better in solo (Wizard has toughness, DH doesn't... not to my knowledge)

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