D2X Ladders had purpose, D3X Seasons Don't

General Discussion
This needs its own thread. Please upvote if you're tired of people comparing D2X Ladders to D3X seasons, without acknowledging how the game evolved between to make periodic resets unnecessary.

Would every one of you intellectually handicapped people with a severe deficiency in a comparative reasoning who has ever dared say "D2 had Ladders. D3 Seasons are good." please spay or neuter yourselves for the betterment of humanity?

D2X had an economy based on SoJs which was (periodically) massively corrupted by duping. It was good design to periodically reset that economy by encouraging people to play a resetting mode. D3X has no economy. Period. Seasons serve no purpose there.

D2X had skill and stat points which were (until later) irrevocably assigned. Each character was potentially unique in their stats and skill builds depending on their target gear and intended build. D3X has neither stat nor skill points. The only difference between any given level 70 of a class is that season ones get better loot tables. That's a poor and self referential way to justify seasons.

That last point bears repeating, because it was a *good* thing that D3X evolved from D2X when they decided "You only need one of a class at level class, swap your skills freely to play different builds instead of rerolling a new same class toon." If only they would give us the stash space to support this for 6 classes given how the importance of items has evolved, this game would be *so* much better.

D2X had effectively unlimited character slots though the ability to have multiple Bnet logins. D3X has 12 character slots - 1 for each class hardcore and softcore.

Lastly, at a competitive level, D2X experience cap was based on playing for XP fast but skillfully enough not to die and suffer the huge death XP penalties. I had two accounts of decked out toons, and my highest I bothered with was a 96 Zon. D3X competition is far too riddled with RNG to be considered a true competition. It's a measure of who is willing to bang their heads against multiple layers of RNG to line up a perfect rift with zombies and a lack of bad affixes. Testing players patience over skill is not a recipe for good leaderboards.

This game was designed from the ground up *against* the idea of rerolling for new things which seasons represents. If some people get their jollies that way, well fine, let them reroll in a game designed against it till they die, but don't give them a better loot table as a reward for their gullibility in repeating things pointlessly.
Seasons in D3 totally make sense, so you can reset that economy. It's not like having no targeted loot and piss poor drop rates that make starting over a daunting nightmare make seasons totally arbitrary and pointless.
D3 seasons HAD a purpose. S3 completely destroyed any reason to reroll for 90% of players in its current format
I agree with the Original Poster. I've been saying the very same thing many times, one of the recent ones is this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16951755055#12
The players wanted Ladder, something that resembled the Ladder in D2, a time for fresh start and something to keep the prices of the items stable. We ended up with a Ladder, that had nothing to do with D2. Nothing about stable prices anyways, since trading got removed.
The current Seasons and Ladder are more like MMO patches that just introduce new gear, that makes the old gear obsolete, and as a result it forces the players into participating not for the sake of fresh start or stable prices, but for the sake of specific items that they need to complete their builds
100% right.
Your second paragraph makes me a little sad, because you had an otherwise well-written piece of criticism.

I honestly don't know why some people have to include such vile, personal; hate filled insults into their complaints.
+1
+1 agreed

d3 seasons just split up the community for no reason
I responded to you in a previous thread, and I'll repeat it now.

Periodic resets are not necessary in Diablo 3, but there are nonetheless multiple arguments for why they may be desirable. They provide, for example, the following benefits:

  • A break from what is otherwise a rather monotonous gear grind.
  • A chance to play a new class or build, rather than being biased towards whatever class / build you've sunk the most time into.
  • A good opportunity for some element of competition, no matter how flawed.
  • Amplification of each version update, which helps to draw back more casual players.

Are these the same reasons behind D2X seasons? No, though there's a little bit of overlap. Are they nonetheless valid benefits of Seasonal play in D3X? Absolutely.

Now you can certainly argue that Seasonal play is a poor way to go about accomplishing these goals. You can also choose to argue that these are goals which shouldn't be pursued, and that Blizzard is making a mistake in emphasizing them.

What you can't logically do, however, is claim that there is "no purpose" to Seasonal play in D3X when clearly there is. Whether or not it's a purpose you agree with is utterly irrelevant.

In short, you should take your own advice - if you want to rail against those who mindlessly compare D2X Ladders to D3X Seasons for the purpose of supporting Seasonal play, you should also refrain from mindlessly comparing them for the purpose of declaring Seasons a useless creation. Which is precisely what you're doing.

Also, as an aside, I second the opinions of a previous poster who faulted you for engaging in needless displays of vitriol. Such behaviour does nothing but harm your argument.
D3 is barely a Diablo game as it is. Why compare then?
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A break from what is otherwise a rather monotonous gear grind

How does a Season help you achieve that? How is the grind less monotonous in seasons?
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A chance to play a new class or build

You can do that without seasons.
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A good opportunity for some element of competition, no matter how flawed.

You can compete on Non-season as well, there are eras.
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
Amplification of each version update, which helps to draw back more casual players.

At the cost of splitting what is already rather small community. RoS sold bad...
04/11/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Noxifer
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A break from what is otherwise a rather monotonous gear grind

How does a Season help you achieve that? How is the grind less monotonous in seasons?

The grind is identical, once you reach level 70 and acquire a reasonable gear set. For those who don't play 10 hours a day, this takes at least a week or two, likely longer for more casual players. This is the essence of "a break" from the normal Blood Shard grind or G. Rift Pylon fishing that non-Seasonal play devolves into after you reach a certain point.

Whether it's a break you find enjoyable or not, well, that's personal preference, but it is clearly a different experience.

04/11/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Noxifer
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A chance to play a new class or build

You can do that without seasons.

You're right, you can. So? Seasonal play still provides a much better opportunity for a reset - one free of the inherent psychological tendency most of us have to follow the path of least resistance.

This type of argument was used to try and defend the AH back in D3V; it was nonsense then, and it's nonsense now.

04/11/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Noxifer
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A good opportunity for some element of competition, no matter how flawed.

You can compete on Non-season as well, there are eras.

It's difficult to claim there's competition in non-Seasonal play; it's an extremely uneven playing field. This applies especially to more casual players who may not devote as much time towards the game as some of us on the forums do.

04/11/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Noxifer
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
Amplification of each version update, which helps to draw back more casual players.

At the cost of splitting what is already rather small community. RoS sold bad...

As I said, Seasons may not have been the best mechanism to use. My broader point was that there was a purpose to their existence, which is what the OP was arguing against. There are certainly downsides to the current implementation, however, and this is one of them.
I don't know, for a mode w/o any purposes, it seems pretty darn popular.
Seasons are just pathetic.. And it saddens me that people plays them. It shows how pathetic this player-base is.
D2 Ladders:

- economy reset
- "Leaderboard" reset
- Ladder-only items

D3 seasons:

- "Leaderboard" reset

can anyone tell me why to play season in d3? xD
Got some bad news for you. Every single minute you've ever spent playing a Diablo game has been 'repeating things pointlessly'. The only point to video games, is stress relief, and fun. Sounds like you are having the opposite reaction, might be time to find something else to do.

You have a lot of anger, this usually stems from a gaming addiction that is no longer being satisfied by the game of choice (which is inevitable).

Good luck!
Sorry OP, but you're beating a dead horse. Not that I disagree, but it's been said over and over and over again.

People wanted seasons when the D3 economy was in shambles due to the AH. Blizz removed the AH, and removed the need for any economy at all, and then announced seasons. Something that was now a solution to a problem D3 now longer had.

And Blizzard rejoiced in their willingness to listen to the voices of their players.....
04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
Periodic resets are not necessary in Diablo 3, but there are nonetheless multiple arguments for why they may be desirable. They provide, for example, the following benefits

04/11/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Vhailor
A chance to play a new class or build

04/11/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Noxifer
You can do that without seasons.

04/11/2015 06:00 PMPosted by Vhailor
This type of argument was used to try and defend the AH back in D3V; it was nonsense then, and it's nonsense now.

Actually this response from you is a complete nonsense. You're making a comparison between things, that have absolutely nothing to do with one another, and then you essentially put words in my mouth.

Vanilla drops were terrible for 99.9% of the players. There were those, that were lucky enough to get their own gear, but they were waay too few compared to those, who picked up everything from the ground in order to get enough gold to buy their gear from the AH (many of those build a capital and started flipping), or those who had to resort to spending real money.

However, you absolutely can try out a build in non-season. In fact, the best parts of my DH and WD gear were obtained in between season and not during a season.
And even though people speculate, that the drops are lower on non-season, you still have greater rifts, which drop multiple items upon completion.

Also, there are plenty of people on non-season, who are geared in the new sets -- Wrath of the bla bla, Unhallowed whatever. When do you think they got them?
From the looks of it, I'll assemble those sets just from donations from fellow players in public games within the next week or two and will be able to try those builds even without playing on a Barb or a DH. I already got some nice pieces.

04/11/2015 06:00 PMPosted by Vhailor
It's difficult to claim there's competition in non-Seasonal play; it's an extremely uneven playing field

And on seasons the competition is fair and even? Because everyone can spend 10-12 hours per day to farm Paragon 800 or 1000, grind their entire gear with perfect rolls and be aware of the new FotM abuse?
Come on..
04/11/2015 06:09 PMPosted by Alukat
D2 Ladders:

- economy reset
- "Leaderboard" reset
- Ladder-only items

D3 seasons:

- "Leaderboard" reset

can anyone tell me why to play season in d3? xD

Even the non-season has a leaderboard reset, it's called Eras.
04/11/2015 06:06 PMPosted by MerLock
I don't know, for a mode w/o any purposes, it seems pretty darn popular.

It was the first two times. This time around I am not so sure.
They may look fine to you now, but it's just a matter of time before they turn into mindless undead :P
04/11/2015 06:21 PMPosted by Noxifer
Actually this response from you is a complete nonsense. You're making a comparison between things, that have absolutely nothing to do with one another, and then you essentially put words in my mouth.

I'm assuming you're referencing my comparison of your type of argument to the type of argument made when defending the AH. I assure you, they are essentially identical. Both can be boiled down to ignoring or disregarding the basic psychological instinct people have to follow the path of least resistance. The only difference is in the degree of difference between the "easy" path and the "hard" path.

This difference of degree, however, is not enough to lend much validity to your argument. The pressure is still distinct and significant enough to meaningfully guide player choices - particularly when considering more casual players who don't choose to invest as much time. The fact that your choices do not seem particularly affected is completely and utterly irrelevant; the broader principle still holds.

I also never put words into your mouth; this is why I referenced your type of argument, rather than your argument itself. I'd suggest you read more carefully before tossing off accurate comparisons as nonsense.

04/11/2015 06:21 PMPosted by Noxifer
04/11/2015 06:00 PMPosted by Vhailor
It's difficult to claim there's competition in non-Seasonal play; it's an extremely uneven playing field

And on seasons the competition is fair and even? Because everyone can spend 10-12 hours per day to farm Paragon 800 or 1000, grind their entire gear with perfect rolls and be aware of the new FotM abuse?
Come on..

Obviously the competition isn't fair and even, but it starts off that way, and luck is still a significant factor depending on how long the Season runs.

Basically, in many ways, you can view the "competition" in Diablo 3 like gambling. If you take a relatively brief window of time, luck plays a significant factor in determining whether or not someone does well. As you consider larger stretches of time, luck becomes less of a factor, eventually becoming nigh irrelevant.

In non-Seasonal play, luck is already irrelevant to a large extent, due to pre-existing item supplies. In Seasonal play, this certainly isn't the case initially, and probably not for the first few weeks, at least. Beyond that, luck might still be overpowered almost completely by time invested, but again, for more casual players who only sink in a few weeks at a time, even an initial feel of competition is meaningful.

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