Why Dels + Rasha?

Wizard
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Serious question.

Why combine these two sets?

I see bjohn's thread about his success with these two sets in GRs, but I am chalking it up to him having favorable rifts and being able to maneuver his build properly.

Either (4) tals (6) DMO or (4) DMO and (6) tals.
Tal's 6, Delsere's 4. Slow Time by itself is almost as good as having an Eye of Etlitch for all party members if you don't have a snail working your Force Move button. It's still a TR6 build, but with more slots spoken for. It's hard to ignore that 2000%*7 DPS DoT effect as well.

I am terrible at a straight Tal Rasha's spec. It got me farther than the old Firebird's spec though. But the TR6DMO4 combo jumped me up 11 Greater Rift levels, not because it's OP, but because it forces you to take a defensive skill and actually use it when it's available instead of when you're in a bad situation. Also, it is still a TR6 spec. Make of it what you will.
Because it's easier to get a RoRG and 3 pieces of DMO than it is to get an Ancient Serpent Sparker or Aether Walker.

In terms of current potential, it isn't as good as the other top tier builds, but it is still powerful. Powerful enough to afford people without enough time invested (or luck) to find an ancient wand (since Devastator can be crafted) to do 50+ GRs.

6 DMO 4 Tal is not good though, a lot of the build's potential lies in that 6p Tal bonus.
Why delrasha? Because it sounds better than TalMo? ...

-The PONR version of Delrasha (6T, 4D) is consistent and defense-oriented, meaning you don't have to fish for favorable rifts. That also means it's not a build to get the top leaderboards, but a lot of people are not interested in that.

-It's easy to learn. First day of trying this build, I got GR52 or 53. I can do GR52 consistently. GR53 is like 3/5 times with this build.

-High GR is very doable by everyone. You don't need a jackpot ancient SS. You can just craft a good ancient Devastator.

-What you don't like bubbles?
Well I'd like to present you the trade offs of the 2000*7 bubble.

1) F+R set

2) Skill slot allotted to bubble, now your bar is more locked up.

3) using shock pulse (bad skill) to reduce cool down (I assume people are using this to take advantage of the 2 piece bonus)

4) What is your main damage dealer ? Hydra still as with standard (6) TR?
Who cares about performance when you have a name like.......... DEL-RASHA!!!!!!!!
Because you big wigs of the Wizard forums are so locked up on your Tal's Mammoth Hydra gameplay, you guys have completely written off Delrasha, meaning those of us that aren't real Theorycrafters have to figure out what fits for us instead of what is FotM.

Edit: My main damage dealer is literally the bubble. Spam Magic Missile to reset the cooldown, gain a stack of Tal's, and drop a cold meteor. Incidental meteors are also a huge portion of damage.
I have only played Delrasha with my AW and i have been loving it. I honestly haven't tried the straight tal hydra build yet though as i still only have one of the FR rings. I may try it when i find that other ring but for now i seem to fly through rifts really fast and easy. I enjoy the playstyle. It is fast, easy, and effective.
I use my own little variation of the build but I like it.
It has a much lower DPS ceiling than some of the top builds, but there are several reasons as to why I'm currently using a Delrasha build. That is ofcourse a build with 6 TR and 4 DMO in order to boost the 4 DMO bonus with the 6 TR bonus, I doubt the other way around would be effective.

First off, it has a nice mix of DPS and defense due to Slow Time. It also allows for a lot of build versatility because you can basically rely mostly on both set bonuses to do your DPS. Secondly, while it can't compete with the madness that is possible with a good AW or SS, it works with pretty much every single weapon. I tried many builds, but I found Delrasha to be the most consistent with generic weapons. Seeing as how many players, like me, have not yet found a good Ancient SS or AW, the build caters to a big portion of the players who have not been blessed by RNG Jezus yet.

The biggest boon of the build in my opinion? Its consistency. Unlike your claim of fishing, I can clear nearly every rift with this. Really depends on my load out though, but I can say with confidence that I could beat GR 52 consistently with a bit better gear. So far I only did 51, but I barely have any keys to work with. I mostly play solo so upgrading keys is painstackingly slow. My gear is FAR below that off those top players, yet I made it into the top 300 before dropping out with worse gear than I'm using now. I used a great Furnace to do so though, it offers a bit better DPS but it's less safe than a one-hander.

You know how many tries it took me, despite only being paragon level 500 and having only slightly above average gear? It only took me maybe 4 or 5 tries for 49, before I figured out I had to skip more elites - remember I play by myself so I had nobody to tell me this was common practice. Took me 2 tries for 50, 1 try for 51 and almost beat 52 on my second try. Now, if someone with people to play with and means to farm keys, paragon and gear were to try this build, I'm sure he'd be able to do better than me. I had none of those things.

So the build is really underappreciated. It might not have the same DPS ceiling as the top builds, but it's consistent, flexible and potent. If you have lesser gear and only generic weapons, it might be worth a shot. If you want a good mix of defense or offense, it might also be worth trying out.
for me, it just plays better than straight TR-6 builds. i'm probably skill capped. but it works. i'm only at 47 but have not pushed it at all, and have a truck load of 50 +/- keys.

with legacy GoO, the build has a real strong point. the whole screen can be filled with bubbles, and jumpers / chargers, etc like winged assassins, anarchs, etc, are very often negated at 50+ before they engage. spears / darts go real slow.

i have all the ancient SS / TnT / TR-6 / F+R gear i need, and have tried hard for weeks to get something out of Hydra (at 2.54 and 3.0x), using all kinds of build variants, but i just can't get more than 45-46 out of it. (ie, skill capped).

i know already the dps cap is in sight. that is the limiter for delrasha. but the fun factor is high, for me.
05/05/2015 08:17 AMPosted by Boozor
Well I'd like to present you the trade offs of the 2000*7 bubble.

1) F+R set

2) Skill slot allotted to bubble, now your bar is more locked up.

3) using shock pulse (bad skill) to reduce cool down (I assume people are using this to take advantage of the 2 piece bonus)

4) What is your main damage dealer ? Hydra still as with standard (6) TR?


Yes, and that's why Delrasha is not in the top 20. There is a pretty hard cap on the amount of dps the build can dish out.

But like Kiza said.

Not everyone will find an Ancient Sparker or Aether walker, not everyone is willing to fish rifts without winged Assassins or physical ranged mobs, and it's performance is also decent for speed runs. 3 minutes Gr 40s as you can drop a bubble right on top of a group of mobs gathered by zdps sader.

The main damage dealer are bubbles. Some people like meteor, some like Mammoth hydra for a little extra single target on RG, it has quite a bit of variations.

Its easy to gear and flexible, basically our version of Arcane Barb, except we can't hit gr 55 with it.
05/05/2015 08:15 AMPosted by kiza
Why delrasha? Because it sounds better than TalMo? ...


Or Rashamo ?

05/05/2015 08:33 AMPosted by Ivonbeton
So the build is really underappreciated. It might not have the same DPS ceiling as the top builds, but it's consistent, flexible and potent.


Okay I can appreciate that. I was just wondering because it seems like there are other ways to achieve similar output without needing to strap another set on + more competing rings.

For example:

05/05/2015 08:24 AMPosted by CalethosVB
Edit: My main damage dealer is literally the bubble. Spam Magic Missile to reset the cooldown, gain a stack of Tal's, and drop a cold meteor. Incidental meteors are also a huge portion of damage.


If this was the case, wouldn't standard (6) TR + hydra + slotted bubble be more efficient use of gear slots ?

You can then even slot crown of primus if you wanted to have more bubble centric setup.

EDIT: As I write this, I see the problem is finding the SS. But then wouldn't even a standard SS and TNT offer similar out put with F+R.
I always just considered it a build for those who don't like pushing greater rifts, and want an extremely safe, consistent, option to get a reasonable clear without too much stress or worry.

I think anyone trying to push front page with it just have the wrong idea about what the dps requirements for front page are.
i guess for me the advantages are versatility, the ability to get a Tal's stack with a skill that does damage AND CC at once, and a way to get mobs to sit nicely still so my hydras and I can tee off on them. Even the magic missile is useful, since I can let RGs cook in a bubble around the corner and be still be getting direct damage.
05/05/2015 08:33 AMPosted by Ivonbeton
It has a much lower DPS ceiling than some of the top builds, but there are several reasons as to why I'm currently using a Delrasha build. That is ofcourse a build with 6 TR and 4 DMO in order to boost the 4 DMO bonus with the 6 TR bonus, I doubt the other way around would be effective.

First off, it has a nice mix of DPS and defense due to Slow Time. It also allows for a lot of build versatility because you can basically rely mostly on both set bonuses to do your DPS. Secondly, while it can't compete with the madness that is possible with a good AW or SS, it works with pretty much every single weapon. I tried many builds, but I found Delrasha to be the most consistent with generic weapons. Seeing as how many players, like me, have not yet found a good Ancient SS or AW, the build caters to a big portion of the players who have not been blessed by RNG Jezus yet.

The biggest boon of the build in my opinion? Its consistency. Unlike your claim of fishing, I can clear nearly every rift with this. Really depends on my load out though, but I can say with confidence that I could beat GR 52 consistently with a bit better gear. So far I only did 51, but I barely have any keys to work with. I mostly play solo so upgrading keys is painstackingly slow. My gear is FAR below that off those top players, yet I made it into the top 300 before dropping out with worse gear than I'm using now. I used a great Furnace to do so though, it offers a bit better DPS but it's less safe than a one-hander.

You know how many tries it took me, despite only being paragon level 500 and having only slightly above average gear? It only took me maybe 4 or 5 tries for 49, before I figured out I had to skip more elites - remember I play by myself so I had nobody to tell me this was common practice. Took me 2 tries for 50, 1 try for 51 and almost beat 52 on my second try. Now, if someone with people to play with and means to farm keys, paragon and gear were to try this build, I'm sure he'd be able to do better than me. I had none of those things.

So the build is really underappreciated. It might not have the same DPS ceiling as the top builds, but it's consistent, flexible and potent. If you have lesser gear and only generic weapons, it might be worth a shot. If you want a good mix of defense or offense, it might also be worth trying out.


you have just convinced me to try out this build.. I liked the consistency aspect of your argument, and considering i dont have an ancient serpent sparker im already running a gimped version of mammoth hydra tal rashas
Grizzly bear approved.
05/05/2015 08:51 AMPosted by Boozor
Rashamo


YES
05/05/2015 08:51 AMPosted by Boozor
EDIT: As I write this, I see the problem is finding the SS. But then wouldn't even a standard SS and TNT offer similar out put with F+R


According to my in game experience, standard SS (I don't have an ancient one) + TNT is more powerfull than delrasha, even without F+R. But delrasha really offers way more survivability than TR + TnT + SS, and the bubble can replace an element (as I am doing with my seasonal wiz) even though I loose DPS again, but here it is because of bad RNG and not much farm : forced into high cold %.

I really think using delrasha allows for most to avoid death or dangerous situations where the player could have died using only TR.
05/05/2015 08:51 AMPosted by Boozor
If this was the case, wouldn't standard (6) TR + hydra + slotted bubble be more efficient use of gear slots ?


well bubles themselves without dmo 4 dont do damage nor count for tal stacks. basically thats the reason fro slotting the 4pc set

05/05/2015 08:51 AMPosted by Boozor
As I write this, I see the problem is finding the SS. But then wouldn't even a standard SS and TNT offer similar out put with F+R.


yeah, well optimized for hydra higher probably, but its not all about deeps its about playstyle. Also remember that instead of using F&R you use Coe which is also quite hefty on the damage department, specially if u consider u will have at least 2 strong dps elements. the buble and what ever other skill u use, say mamoth.

Its similar to say running the halo + apd melee double hydra, lower dps ceiling but more consistent coz u survive better and have to fish less to get good results.
05/05/2015 07:50 AMPosted by Boozor
Either (4) tals (6) DMO or (6) DMO and (4) tals


Isn't that the same thing?

I always thought Delrasha was (6) tal (4) dmo,

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