Why Dels + Rasha?

Wizard
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05/14/2015 07:56 AMPosted by Kiadaw
Small rant. can't use meteor boots as I do not have Tal Ammy. Is the amulet very rare? I did not found on on my non season also.


Not particularly rare or hard to roll since they always roll CHD natively. With 1 random roll your looking for either socket or CC. I would deem it an "uncommon" item.

05/14/2015 07:56 AMPosted by Kiadaw
Anway, a small question, I use teleport-Camality as arcane procs, but even at 41CDR, there is too much time between cast (I already have illusionist up). How do you guy deal with this?


41%CD + Illusionist seem to be ample time to reset arcane stacks. From CD alone, you should have calamity up every 6.54 seconds. Stacks last 6 seconds. This is plenty of time.
05/14/2015 08:00 AMPosted by Boozor
05/14/2015 07:56 AMPosted by Kiadaw
Small rant. can't use meteor boots as I do not have Tal Ammy. Is the amulet very rare? I did not found on on my non season also.


Not particularly rare or hard to roll since they always roll CHD natively. With 1 random roll your looking for either socket or CC. I would deem it an "uncommon" item.

05/14/2015 07:56 AMPosted by Kiadaw
Anway, a small question, I use teleport-Camality as arcane procs, but even at 41CDR, there is too much time between cast (I already have illusionist up). How do you guy deal with this?


41%CD + Illusionist seem to be ample time to reset arcane stacks. From CD alone, you should have calamity up every 6.54 seconds. Stacks last 6 seconds. This is plenty of time.


Time is about right.

Thats the point, 6.54>6 sec, so you may have downtime of full stack. If this is normal, then I am ok. I just couldn't get the stack to stay full stack full time, & I though I do something wrong.
05/14/2015 08:06 AMPosted by Kiadaw
05/14/2015 08:00 AMPosted by Boozor
...

Not particularly rare or hard to roll since they always roll CHD natively. With 1 random roll your looking for either socket or CC. I would deem it an "uncommon" item.

...

41%CD + Illusionist seem to be ample time to reset arcane stacks. From CD alone, you should have calamity up every 6.54 seconds. Stacks last 6 seconds. This is plenty of time.


Time is about right.

Thats the point, 6.54>6 sec, so you may have downtime of full stack. If this is normal, then I am ok. I just couldn't get the stack to stay full stack full time, & I though I do something wrong.


You actually don't have any down time unless your 4th stack is arcane, and when the 4th stack wears off, your following 1st stack is arcane, which makes zero sense.

So you have plenty of time.

As long as you don't do the following:

X - X - X - Arcane stack (6 second timer)

Then

Arcane stack - X - X - X
05/14/2015 08:28 AMPosted by Boozor
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Time is about right.

Thats the point, 6.54>6 sec, so you may have downtime of full stack. If this is normal, then I am ok. I just couldn't get the stack to stay full stack full time, & I though I do something wrong.


You actually don't have any down time unless your 4th stack is arcane, and when the 4th stack wears off, your following 1st stack is arcane, which makes zero sense.

So you have plenty of time.

As long as you don't do the following:

X - X - X - Arcane stack (6 second timer)

Then

Arcane stack - X - X - X


Wait, so it is not to spam all 4 elements within 6 sec. I have to use them in sequent, & I have 6 sec window per element?

Now I need to completely remap my muscle memory.
...

You actually don't have any down time unless your 4th stack is arcane, and when the 4th stack wears off, your following 1st stack is arcane, which makes zero sense.

So you have plenty of time.

As long as you don't do the following:

X - X - X - Arcane stack (6 second timer)

Then

Arcane stack - X - X - X


Wait, so it is not to spam all 4 elements within 6 sec. I have to use them in sequent, & I have 6 sec window per element?

Now I need to completely remap my muscle memory.


You could have as much as ~24 seconds before you need to "re-stack" from zero again.

Each stack last 6 seconds, and subsequent stacks refresh the 6 second duration up until 4 stacks which at that point it's capped.

On the 4th stack, after 6 seconds, no matter what you start back at zero again.

So you could take your time cycling through the stacks if you wanted to but the most optimized play is to spend as much time as possible at the 4th stack (max DPS) and as little time as possible cycling from 0-3 stacks.
It took a while to get used to the new playstyle. Need more practice.

Anyway, a quick question, should Hydra be on 4th stack or Time bubble?
Either way. You're going to be refreshing Hydra quickly anyway to refresh your Tal's stacks. Bubble damage updates dynamically with Tal's stacks, so stick it in wherever. From a tactical point of view, drop a bubble onto your target and place the Hydra after that. The bubble slows and grants control first, then you can figure out where to place Hydra.
So you are saying if I pop a bubble as first stack, when it reach 4th stack, all the active skills including Hydra & slow time will update with 4 stack damage bonus?

What stuff about Tal I have not known yeah. The Wiz will do a Cartwheel if I use elements in a right sequence?
05/15/2015 07:58 AMPosted by Kiadaw
So you are saying if I pop a bubble as first stack, when it reach 4th stack, all the active skills including Hydra & slow time will update with 4 stack damage bonus?

What stuff about Tal I have not known yeah. The Wiz will do a Cartwheel if I use elements in a right sequence?


Yes, exactly.
I actually just used the del rasha myself and these are my findings:

-Great for survival and one of the best builds for hardcore
-Damage blows, especially when fighting tougher RG's at higher GRIFTS
05/15/2015 08:23 AMPosted by Boozor
05/15/2015 07:58 AMPosted by Kiadaw
So you are saying if I pop a bubble as first stack, when it reach 4th stack, all the active skills including Hydra & slow time will update with 4 stack damage bonus?

What stuff about Tal I have not known yeah. The Wiz will do a Cartwheel if I use elements in a right sequence?


Yes, exactly.


Thanks.
05/15/2015 08:30 AMPosted by Cman
-Great for survival and one of the best builds for hardcore

-Damage blows, especially when fighting tougher RG's at higher GRIFTS


Pretty much the /TLDR.

Arguments are being made that the damage is not as bad and that survivability is able to make up the time lost from having less damage.
05/15/2015 09:16 AMPosted by Boozor
05/15/2015 08:30 AMPosted by Cman
-Great for survival and one of the best builds for hardcore

-Damage blows, especially when fighting tougher RG's at higher GRIFTS


Pretty much the /TLDR.

Arguments are being made that the damage is not as bad and that survivability is able to make up the time lost from having less damage.


One thing that is hard to really put some real numbers around, is functional DPS. On paper an SS/Hydra/TNT/TAL6/F+R build is going to put out significantly more theoretical DPS than a DelRasha build, simply because there are many more stacking multipliers. It also expects the Hydras to be positioned at minimal range, to constantly have a full set of stacking rivers on the mob, to be dealing 100% of potential DPS all the time. Then people compare that to DelRasha's Slow Time DPS, which really isn't very great by itself, doesn't have nearly as many multipliers, etc.

The problem being, that in reality, the functional DPS you gain from a Hydra build is nowhere near the potential DPS, especially in solo. Currently in groups, you can really get a very high amount of your potential DPS, because you have the likes of zDPS Crusaders and Zero Dog WDs doing perma CC on large packs, where the targets are all bunched up and don't move. In solo scenarios, this doesn't happen, regardless of your build. Hydras do put out a lot of DPS, but a lot of potential DPS is lost simply because stuff moves. Sure, Blizzard can hold some stuff in place for a time, but you still have nothing (like Blackhole) to group things up constantly.

DelRasha on the other hand may be doing significantly less DPS (like 4-5 times less theoretical potential DPS) on paper, but in practical application, it is a lot easier to get that DPS all of the time. Slow time creates a big AoE that doesn't discriminate. In the bubble? Taking the damage. Overlapping bubbles, Blackhole, Point of No Return, etc. all contribute to keeping that DPS going. It is a lot easier to get near/max potential DPS out of Slow time, because of the mechanics of the spell. It cares a lot less about moving enemies than a Hydra does, per se.

That's why we see multiple mid-50 clears with a 'plain' DelRasha (i.e. no Hydra), simply because it handles the trash a lot more efficiently. You lose a lot of time on the RG, because of poor single target damage, but you gain a lot of time getting to the RG.

The DelRasha builds that are getting into the 57+ territory are those who integrate stuff like Mammoth Hydra, to give better single target (RG) performance. You don't need SS, F+R or TNT to get some performance gains out of Hydra, you just need to sacrifice something like Blackhole or Mirror Images.

The key here is finding the right mix of CC, AoE potential, ST potential and mobility to allow you to clear the rift in a good time with minimal reliance on RNG, and still allow you to kill the RG in a respectable amount of time. The builds that come closer to the right balance are those doing 56+, the others are 'stuck' in the lower and mid 50s. Someone will eventually find the right mix of skills and gear (I personally have an idea in mind, I just need to gear to execute it) to be able to do 58+ rifts. I definitely think it is possible, it just needs to be done "right".
I use delrasha except i use arcane orb instead of hydra. to me it's better than any of the other builds i use, and spamming orb is much more fun than laying a hydra and letting bubble/meteors doing work for you. Fire orb+ice magic missile+slow time is enough orbs for me, with the big crits of them all.
Delrasha is pretty mediocre and just bad compared to tals + f/r
can you do a variance of your build with fire arcane orb? or is meteor just way more dmg with boots?
@Torin... what about the extra dps from extra damage sources.. Running delrasha with slow time bubble and Hydra and "a third dmg dealer" all doing damage at full tals stack adds up. Tr6 with hydra primary damage source is just hydra. 2000% base dps is not insignificant, even without skill damage buffs.

Ive only played low lvl GR delrasha mid to high GR30's solo and the biggest annoyance was the damn bees( and other ranged) filling up the ST bubbles with projectiles lol, in tight maps you start running out of real estate to tele into :/.

Anyways del Rasha is awesome, its a pity in a way we cant have FB6/DMO4
5 days passed, still no sign of the Tal amulet. :(

I wasn't even asking of rhard to get gears like Anicent SS. Shiity luck on weapon now spread to amulets.

Anway, quick question, I am using Hydra, should I use TnT or Niffur when I finally found my Tal ammy?
05/16/2015 10:41 AMPosted by Kiadaw
5 days passed, still no sign of the Tal amulet. :(

I wasn't even asking of rhard to get gears like Anicent SS. Shiity luck on weapon now spread to amulets.

Anway, quick question, I am using Hydra, should I use TnT or Niffur when I finally found my Tal ammy?


You have SS ?

Even without SS, still probably TNT.
05/16/2015 10:50 AMPosted by Boozor
05/16/2015 10:41 AMPosted by Kiadaw
5 days passed, still no sign of the Tal amulet. :(

I wasn't even asking of rhard to get gears like Anicent SS. Shiity luck on weapon now spread to amulets.

Anway, quick question, I am using Hydra, should I use TnT or Niffur when I finally found my Tal ammy?


You have SS ?

Even without SS, still probably TNT.


I have SS, actually its has a pretty good roll for a non-ancient, (of course its non ancient, as I have lousy luck on weapon). So I decide to Rgift it.

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