6/4 CoTA and general questions

Barbarian
1) So just curious how people run Together as One with CoTA with a 6/4 build in 52+ rifts? It seems they are far to susceptible to dying once you hit this level.

2)Also wondering how in a 6/4 build its possible to generate enough fury without ancient fury rune generating the majority of your fury?

3) I am also wondering what I can do to some how increase my damage in my 6/4 build without sacrificing too much toughness cause right now when I try 52+ a lot of times I simply fail because I run out of time due to not high enough damage (rarely cause I am dying).

The barb I do my solo rifts on is Stozzy, I am running unity (over CoE) when I do solo play and use nerves of steel instead of unforgiving (I just use unforgiving when I am speed farming stuff).

I know 6/6/2 is probably overall the best way to play barb for pushing 54+ Grs, but I just like using 2 handers more so I am opting to play 6/4.
05/08/2015 08:10 AMPosted by Incognito


I know 6/6/2 is probably overall the best way to play barb for pushing 54+ Grs, but I just like using 2 handers more so I am opting to play 6/4.


Despite everyone's posting about W6/BK2 for higher grift. The reality is I was not able to survive past 51.

W6/BK2 despite its high DPS number, it is very squishy, I keep dying and so much time wasted while dying.

Therefore, the only reason I could think that w6/bk2 made it to higher grift, is that the player was lucky to get a good grift.

On the other hand, W6/IK4 is more consistent and more tanky. But the dps is not that good.
I use overpower instead of rend to save fury. Gogok instead of pe to perma wotb. Weaponmaster reaper wrap swords to plow for fury generation. Main purpose is to equip coe and tao.

Killing spree for more dps or crushing advance for really high tankiness.

The other option is diamond helm and keep rend and pe/botp. Downside is you cant keep fury up on a lot of rg's. This setup requires more fishing. Also wont have perma wrath without cdr on gear.
05/08/2015 09:45 AMPosted by Cloud9
I use overpower instead of rend to save fury. Gogok instead of pe to perma wotb. Weaponmaster reaper wrap swords to plow for fury generation. Main purpose is to equip coe and tao.

Killing spree for more dps or crushing advance for really high tankiness.

The other option is diamond helm and keep rend and pe/botp. Downside is you cant keep fury up on a lot of rg's. This setup requires more fishing. Also wont have perma wrath without cdr on gear.


Do you have problems keeping your CotA up in 52+ rifts ? Also do have any fury generation problems with just reapers/swords/weapon master (given that you give up ancient fury)?

I guess I will try leveling up my Gorgok a bit more its only 42 at the moment and give that a whirl sounds interesting. I mostly know that Gorgok is used for 6/6/2 builds I will try it in my 6/4 build. Just concerned that my CotA /w TaO will die too fast in 52+.
If you have high enough toughness your ancients don't take that much damage. Also, they're getting a lot of healing from health globes and you get a lot of health globes from Battle Rage: Swords to Ploughshares.

For Fury the combination of WW - Windshear, Weapons Master, using War Cry smartly and Reaper's Wraps giving fury when picking up health globes makes me not have fury issues.

One tip for saving a bit of fury is when you have to run a long stretch without enemies to not use WW all the time. Just move normally and quickly tap WW when your Taeguk stacks are about to drop off.
Are you using Wind Sheer rune? If so how do you sustain your health by using globes, loh, lpfs only? I can't seem to sustain my HP without blood funnel.
05/08/2015 08:10 AMPosted by Incognito
I know 6/6/2 is probably overall the best way to play barb for pushing 54+ Grs, but I just like using 2 handers more so I am opting to play 6/4.


Not true at all, the jury is still out on the best builds and 4/6 has roughly the same maximum damage potential as other "top" builds. I would not be surprised to see 2 or 3 different builds in the top 10 at the end of s3, probably dictated by gear rather a fervent belief that "build xx is better than build yy".

As to your questions about maintaining fury, higher GR pushes are all about fishing. I like using a 4ik/6wotw Light build b/c the fury maintenance is easier, but you could always use a phys build and slot superstition or unforgiving onto your skill bar for added fury. Also, you can put 50 paragon into fury and have templar run inspire. Get max fury on belt and ikbb, and 185 total fury should be enough for just about any battle.
05/08/2015 09:54 AMPosted by Incognito
05/08/2015 09:45 AMPosted by Cloud9
I use overpower instead of rend to save fury. Gogok instead of pe to perma wotb. Weaponmaster reaper wrap swords to plow for fury generation. Main purpose is to equip coe and tao.

Killing spree for more dps or crushing advance for really high tankiness.

The other option is diamond helm and keep rend and pe/botp. Downside is you cant keep fury up on a lot of rg's. This setup requires more fishing. Also wont have perma wrath without cdr on gear.


Do you have problems keeping your CotA up in 52+ rifts ? Also do have any fury generation problems with just reapers/swords/weapon master (given that you give up ancient fury)?

I guess I will try leveling up my Gorgok a bit more its only 42 at the moment and give that a whirl sounds interesting. I mostly know that Gorgok is used for 6/6/2 builds I will try it in my 6/4 build. Just concerned that my CotA /w TaO will die too fast in 52+.


You have to keep track of them because they will take damage and die once in a while. Especially pay attention during arcane sentry. Thats when they die the most. You want to resummon when they are low on health while you still have TAO active. Don't wait for them to all die. On average i probably had to resummon/heal them 3-4x per 54 rift.

No fury problems as long as you dont need to run from the RG. If you need to run from the RG you will have major fury issues.

If you are having toughness issues/cant swim in the middle of 2-3 non-arcane elite + champ packs put on crushing advance. It's really underrated. It doesnt give you straight dps but being able to kill multiple champ/elite packs at once while swimming in the middle of them saves a LOT of time.
05/08/2015 09:58 AMPosted by Hien
Are you using Wind Sheer rune? If so how do you sustain your health by using globes, loh, lpfs only? I can't seem to sustain my HP without blood funnel.


LoH on Weapon. Rend Blood Lust helps on higher GRs.
05/08/2015 09:54 AMPosted by Incognito
Do you have problems keeping your CotA up in 52+ rifts ? Also do have any fury generation problems with just reapers/swords/weapon master (given that you give up ancient fury)?


Sorry missed this earlier. Just keep half an eye on your cota, if they're dying then re-summon. And if they're consistently dying in less than 20 seconds then you need more toughness or replenish.
05/08/2015 10:03 AMPosted by Endeavor
05/08/2015 08:10 AMPosted by Incognito
I know 6/6/2 is probably overall the best way to play barb for pushing 54+ Grs, but I just like using 2 handers more so I am opting to play 6/4.


Not true at all, the jury is still out on the best builds and 4/6 has roughly the same maximum damage potential as other "top" builds. I would not be surprised to see 2 or 3 different builds in the top 10 at the end of s3, probably dictated by gear rather a fervent belief that "build xx is better than build yy".

As to your questions about maintaining fury, higher GR pushes are all about fishing. I like using a 4ik/6wotw Light build b/c the fury maintenance is easier, but you could always use a phys build and slot superstition or unforgiving onto your skill bar for added fury. Also, you can put 50 paragon into fury and have templar run inspire. Get max fury on belt and ikbb, and 185 total fury should be enough for just about any battle.


I agree there are a lot of ways to go with 6/4, but in my opinion COE builds are considerably better than non-COE builds (for progression).
05/08/2015 10:09 AMPosted by Cloud9
I agree there are a lot of ways to go with 6/4, but in my opinion COE builds are considerably better than non-COE builds (for progression).


Living without the Unity crutch pays dividends, I agree. Even if you pivot to WtW6/BT builds- IMO the end game is CoE and ORotZ with enough CDR to keep up CotA/WotB/IP at 100%. Best of all worlds.
So I have been reading about these lightning build variants and am curious what life per hit threshold do you need to be able to survive 52+ GRs? Is the 35k on the weapon alone enough to sustain (+ the LpH you get from paragon) or do you need to get few other pieces with LPH ?

Also in my particular case I rolled damage on my weapon to 10% would sacrificing that 10% damage for LpH and going lightning pay dividends for me or would it be smarter for me to stay physical ?
05/08/2015 01:43 PMPosted by Incognito
So I have been reading about these lightning build variants and am curious what life per hit threshold do you need to be able to survive 52+ GRs? Is the 35k on the weapon alone enough to sustain (+ the LpH you get from paragon) or do you need to get few other pieces with LPH ?

Also in my particular case I rolled damage on my weapon to 10% would sacrificing that 10% damage for LpH and going lightning pay dividends for me or would it be smarter for me to stay physical ?


Besides healing from Templar and Paragon, I have 35k on weapon and 1k LpFS on my IK belt and use the Blood Lust rune for Rend. That's fine up to GR55.

The damage potential of a CoE build isn't always obvious just looking at stats. When using a Unity/Blood Funnel physical build with 1.895M character sheet damage (add Beserker Rage which is up perhaps 50-100% on Rift Guardian fights) compared to a CoE lightning build with 1.882M character sheet damage the lightning build outperforms the physical build in single target damage by 20%. That's a minute on GR54 fights.
05/08/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Freudian
CoE lightning build with 1.882M character sheet damage the lightning build outperforms the physical build in single target damage by 20%.


Just to be clear, that's more damage from WW right?
05/08/2015 04:44 PMPosted by Tao
05/08/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Freudian
CoE lightning build with 1.882M character sheet damage the lightning build outperforms the physical build in single target damage by 20%.


Just to be clear, that's more damage from WW right?


Rough estimations of single target damage, since they weren't tested in identical situations against identical rift guardians but I've done enough GRs to believe they are fairly accurate.

The highest single target damage I get with Lightning and Rend - Mutilate.
Lightning with Rend - Blood Lust does 95% as much damage.
Physical with Berserker Rage does 80% as much damage.
Physical without Berserker Rage does 65% as much damage.

The last build has Brawler/Bloodshed/Bloodbath which makes the gap smaller for some rift guardians (Hamelin, Saxtris, Perendi).
Freudian can you post a link to something where I can see your barbs gear and build please?
Some other information I've written here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/17085118951

I haven't pushed as high in GR, but I feel like my build is very strong for groups if you never want to die. =D
The top build at then end of the season is whatever build the paragon 1500+ guys do.

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