Atrocious power creep in RoS vs power creep in D2:LoD

General Discussion
We currently have sets like Unhallowed Essence, which cause you to become over 14 times stronger with 80 points into discipline. You don't believe me?
Say you do 1 damage. The set grants you 20% increased damage (a buff, which stays up all the time). Then you have another set bonus, which grants you 15% increased points for each point of discipline. With 80 discipline, that's 1200%.
1 x 1,2 x 12 =14,4

Now let's see the power creep in D2:
http://i.imgur.com/U8NsZ0g.jpg?1

Even with BiS gear, skiller charms, Hellfire torch and Annihilus charm, it's nowhere near 14 times.
Currently sets like the Immortal King are what the game should have looked like. It only doubles your damage.

All in all, if there's indeed an expansion on the way, now is the last chance for the game to be saved. I really hope, that Blizzard take that chance and normalize things.
If there is expansion on the way, it is probably already too late to suggest any major changes.

Just look at the forum posts. People don't see OP items as a problem, sadly.
05/24/2015 02:04 AMPosted by Apo
If there is expansion on the way, it is probably already too late to suggest any major changes.

If there's an expansion on the way and the set bonuses don't get normalized, then we're gonna end up seeing even more retarded numbers than we're seeing now. Hundreds of millions and billions of damage ticking the monster, it's just stupid. The game is reminding me of a WoW raid.

Even the "ingenious" WoW developers (according to Kevin martens) realized how idiotic were the numbers in Panda, so they toned them down a little in Warlords to the point, that they remind me of WotLK with one zero at the end.

Normalize the numbers, reduce the bonuses provided by sets in order to reduce the power creep. Seeoner or later there wont be a way around this.
I don't disagree with you OP but the solution I found to the problem is a simple one. I turned off floating numbers. The mob could have 500 hp or 500,000,000 and I don't know the difference. Not a fix but ignorance is bliss.
05/24/2015 10:57 AMPosted by gudmugly
I don't disagree with you OP but the solution I found to the problem is a simple one. I turned off floating numbers. The mob could have 500 hp or 500,000,000 and I don't know the difference. Not a fix but ignorance is bliss.

What you suggest does not solve in any way the issue with the power creep. It's just, that there is too big of a gap in the performance when playing with one of them OP set bonuses, and playing without.
What I fear, is that an expansion will widen the gap. But even now, something should be done about it, because it also hurts the diversity of the game.
05/24/2015 10:45 AMPosted by Noxifer
05/24/2015 02:04 AMPosted by Apo
If there is expansion on the way, it is probably already too late to suggest any major changes.

If there's an expansion on the way and the set bonuses don't get normalized, then we're gonna end up seeing even more retarded numbers than we're seeing now. Hundreds of millions and billions of damage ticking the monster, it's just stupid. The game is reminding me of a WoW raid.

Even the "ingenious" WoW developers (according to Kevin martens) realized how idiotic were the numbers in Panda, so they toned them down a little in Warlords to the point, that they remind me of WotLK with one zero at the end.

Normalize the numbers, reduce the bonuses provided by sets in order to reduce the power creep. Seeoner or later there wont be a way around this.

Oh well. Things can and most probaly will continue just as how they do now. What they might end up with? You will see numbers like 100 000m or 1,5b. or what ever floating around. I mean with 100 000 million damage, does it really matter that you are doing 100 000 000 353 356 damage? Naw. just put an M at the end of it. Done. Power creep saved!

I would not expect to suddenly see a hell lot of effort put in a game that is 3 years old by now.
05/24/2015 11:39 AMPosted by CrniVuk
Oh well. Things can and most probaly will continue just as how they do now. What they might end up with? You will see numbers like 100 000m or 1,5b. or what ever floating around. I mean with 100 000 million damage, does it really matter that you are doing 100 000 000 353 356 damage? Naw. just put an M at the end of it. Done. Power creep saved!

You and other poster clearly don't fully understand the meaning of power creep.
My concern is not only with esthetics.
Again, the gap in power atm is too much between a player with a set bonus and one without. In the case of the Dh, you can literally just from doing several millions of damage to almost a billion with just one item changing. And I expect, that with an expansion things will get even worse.
personally, i just wish they could have scaled back the exponential dmg/hp increase a bit on all accounts. monster hp/dmg, player hp/dmg, skill percentages, etc. not really looking forward to an expansion where we start doing trillions of dmg
Power creep in a game whith infinite monster HP scaling is inevitable.
05/24/2015 01:32 PMPosted by Soulinet
Power creep in a game whith infinite monster HP scaling is inevitable.


If the Paragon system actually provided meaningful upgrade, we wouldn't have a need for constant power creep.

If you want to progress further, play more.

Now, it's "spin more wheels, pull more levers and prey to RNGesus".
05/24/2015 01:32 PMPosted by Soulinet
Power creep in a game whith infinite monster HP scaling is inevitable.


Umm... no it's not? We were never supposed to reach this far into GRs. They should have just stopped buffing everything to do ridiculous amounts of damage.
05/24/2015 01:41 PMPosted by Apo
Umm... no it's not?
Ummm... Yeah, it is. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but it's a matter of pleasing the audience. If you set an ever-moving high end target, you can expect people to chase after that target. Hence the power creep.

05/24/2015 01:39 PMPosted by DoomBringer
If the Paragon system actually provided meaningful upgrade
And how exactly would we do that without making it another source of power creep?
05/24/2015 01:48 PMPosted by Soulinet
And how exactly would we do that without making it another source of power creep?


While Paragon levels are indeed "uncapped", there will be a point where leveling up is extremely demanding.

Paragon progression is something that players have a control over.
RNGesus is not something players have control over.

This is just an example, but let's scrap the current paragon system (the 4 categories) and replace it with skill points:

Here are the categories (Let's take monk for example):

<Primary>
Fist of Thunder
Deadly Reach
Crippling Wave
Way of the Hundred Fists

<Spender>
Lashing Tail Kick
Tempest Rush
Wave of Light
...

<Defensive>
...
...
...

<Others>
Mantras (all 4)
...

Somewhere in Spender or Others, we would have the "Dashing Strike". Every 4ish level, we would be able to spend a skill point in it (if we choose to focus on it, the other levels will require us to spend points in other categories).

Every skill point we spend in Dashing strike adds a 50% damage to its base damage.

Dashing Strike: 370% + 50(X) weapon damage. At paragon 800, we would have spent 200 points in Dashing Strike: 370% + 50(200) = 10370% Weapon Damage (which is somewhat comparable to the current DS set). For other skills, the increase would be less high obviously.

Players would have control over which skill they want to use.

All Blizzard has to do is add items that modify the skill itself.

"Dashing Strike leaves a trail of fire on its wake, dealing 25% of the DS per second, for 3 seconds"
"Dashing Strike pulls all enemies hit to your destination and freeze them for 2 seconds. Enemies cannot be frozen more than once every 10 seconds by this effect"
Add a couple of Legendary items that modify the skill and let us combine/choose how we want to play with DS.

Through Paragon Skill points, all skills would be viable to some extend. Naturally, some skills would be better than others --- but that's where we can add more Legendary items to balance things out (or just tweak with numbers).

Sets would provide unique effects, but they wouldn't be required. Deciding to not use SWK (or Inna) will not forever gimp your Monk if you want to focus on spenders. Ignoring Delsere will not automatically mean that Arcane Orb is trash (it's already trash anyway).

(My 4 categories were hastily assembled and could obviously be improved. All Skill points can be reassigned if desired, with no penalty. However, they cannot be changed during combat or while doing GR --- the same restrictions to changing skills we have)
05/24/2015 02:15 PMPosted by DoomBringer
Sets would provide unique effects, but they wouldn't be required.
That would require an entire shift in how the devs consider itemization in the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more diversity in items and builds, and I like your Paragon idea, but they can be quite stubborn.
The massive power creep in player damage is the correct response to the massive monster HP power creep from Normal difficulty to GR-whatever.

The 'atrocious' part of it is why the endgame have become Greater Rifts.
Power creep has made T6 feel like T1 because of the new sets and only if you have the sets. Try playing without sets and you see the gap in power.

The new sets should not have such a big difference in power compared to non-sets. Right now with this big gap on non and sets, it kills off any form of customisation of gears. Example, F + R are BiS for rings, 6 pcs sets are BiS for most classes.
Doombringer, I've already made a similar suggestion about a progression system, which eliminates the need for some particular items or set bonuses. Check it out:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/17333183485
D2 - !@#$ old , dated game. Why its constantly mentioned is beyond me.
D3 - New generation game

GG Issues Resolved.. Its called Move On Ppl
05/24/2015 07:44 PMPosted by Keyblade
D2 - !@#$ old , dated game. Why its constantly mentioned is beyond me.
D3 - New generation game

GG Issues Resolved.. Its called Move On Ppl


Yeah, who looks to the past for things to improve on?

Who looks to the past for mistakes to avoid?
Power creep in a game whith infinite monster HP scaling is inevitable.


Yep - everyone likes setting a personal record.

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