Requesting Expert Barbarian Help

Barbarian
06/02/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Baconinja
Grats Tao. I know you can do 55-56.


Thanks buddy.

Save me from my stack of 55 keys. They haunt me!

Congrats on 58. Does this mean we need to trial 59 keys now?
06/03/2015 12:01 PMPosted by Tao
06/02/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Baconinja
Grats Tao. I know you can do 55-56.


Thanks buddy.

Save me from my stack of 55 keys. They haunt me!

Congrats on 58. Does this mean we need to trial 59 keys now?


Whoa, whoa, whoa.....I'm calling dibs on 57 keys....pretty please with sugar on top.
06/03/2015 11:49 AMPosted by Stormrider
06/03/2015 11:29 AMPosted by kingdo
Tried windshear with BK weapons and hated it. Had same experience as cloud 9, took way too many adjustments to make up for loss of HP scaling regen.

Figured this out a almost 2 months ago when I first made my guide BK guide.


Same here. Blood funnel is just way too good to give up, and like you said you have to lose some dps and hp to make up for the healing and even then I found it wasn't enough.

Just realized I made a mistake with that post and said wind shear had fury problems when I meant blood funnel without ancients fury. Of course that only applies to WW6/IK4.


[slowind] Wind shear + s2p/reaper wraps should generally enough for fury generation, even single target. And you'll need the healing from globes anyway when dropping blood funnel.

[BK] Blood funnel does awesome healing due to higher APS and is too good to give up. wind shear is overkill for fury gen.
06/03/2015 01:49 PMPosted by Kuzoh


[slowind] Wind shear + s2p/reaper wraps should generally enough for fury generation, even single target. And you'll need the healing from globes anyway when dropping blood funnel.

[/quote]

06/03/2015 11:26 AMPosted by Stormrider

Problem with blood funnel and IKBB is the stupid proc rates with WW for weapons master. They'll both keep you full fury killing whites but with just weapons master your fury will drain like no tomorrow against single target if you don't use ancients fury, since it's missing the passive regen from BK. Had no fury issues with wind shear vs single target.


Hey Kuzoh, Storm

Maybe, im missing something, but what is the advantage of going wind shear with rend in a 6/4 build instead of blood funnel with overpower?

Blood funnel is more healing than wind shear varients. Overpower is better than rend for snapshotting and has similiar dps. Overpower and blood funnel with w master won't have issues with single target fury generation as long as you aren't running often.
What's the fury generator in the blood funnel/overpower case?
06/03/2015 02:03 PMPosted by Kuzoh
What's the fury generator in the blood funnel/overpower case?


w master and reaper+swords to plough.
Cloud,

I don't use wind shear or rend but when I tried just wind shear with IKBB it returned way more fury than blood funnel and weapons master vs RG. I never worried about running out of fury with wind shear. That only applies if you use CoE and TAO though. I guess it just depends on the RG. The ones where you have to constantly dodge the big attacks will give you hell managing fury with that setup.

Just had Perdition on 53. Used blood funnel, TAO, weapons master. You're right it was all I needed for fury as I was able to stay on him the entire fight. Maybe against certain RGs like Rime I just need to not spin as often when he throws the smaller ice. Bad habit from using ancient's fury lol.
Well, main advantage is it frees up a passive slot in place of a rune, and, windshear generates 1 fury per hit while weapon master generates 2*0.2=0.4 fury per hit. I'll post the fury/sec tables later for comparison.

Also qualitatively I think there are better healing sources than blood funnel when running slowind due to the slower APS, though I haven't done the math. With BK swords APS is much higher and blood funnel does more healing, and s2p isn't needed to heal pets, so bloodshed can be used.

Since s2p is in the build already, a little lpfs or lph should be enough. But maybe later I'll do a blood funnel vs. lpfs vs. lph comparison to see how it stacks up ...

On another note one thing I did find when relying on a big APS snapshot is that ancients die too often when running bloodshed, and since resummoning resets the snapshot I generally believe s2p is required for the health globes to keep pets alive, and keeping good snapshots.
06/03/2015 02:28 PMPosted by Kuzoh
Well, main advantage is it frees up a passive slot in place of a rune, and, windshear generates 1 fury per hit while weapon master generates 2*0.2=0.4 fury per hit. I'll post the fury/sec tables later for comparison.


Hey Kuzoh,

I guess it comes down to 1 passive slot vs whatever you need to replace blood funnel. W master is enough fury as long as you dont run often (if you are forced to run you probably arent clearing a progression rift anyways) so the extra fury that wind shear generates doesn't have a lot of value with me.

I tried 6/4 with bloodthirst and lpfs on the belt and i was getting slaughtered on low 50's. I tried BK swords and 46k life on hit and i was getting slaughtered on 53. These are rifts that are normally easy.

Hi Storm,

Depends greatly on the boss like you said. Also, I found it helpful to take the hit (taking damage generates fury) if it was unlikely to kill me (eg periodically let embers fireball from the sky hit you in the face or take some damage from man carvers ground damage black hole).

How much healing on gear/passives are you guys running with wind shear?
WW:Windshear and Weapon Master fury gen per sec (per target hit) for reference:

APS | tps | -fury/sec | WW:WS +fury/sec | WM +fury/sec
1.33334 | 4.2857 | 11.80 | 4.29 | 1.72
1.42858 | 4.6154 | 12.17 | 4.62 | 1.85
1.53847 | 5.0000 | 12.58 | 5.00 | 2.00
1.66667 | 5.4545 | 13.08 | 5.45 | 2.18
1.81819 | 6.0000 | 13.70 | 6.00 | 2.40
2.00001 | 6.6667 | 14.45 | 6.67 | 2.67
2.22223 | 7.5000 | 15.37 | 7.50 | 3.00
2.50001 | 8.5714 | 16.57 | 8.57 | 3.43
2.85715 | 10.0000 | 18.17 | 10.00 | 4.00
3.33334 | 12.0000 | 20.40 | 12.00 | 4.80
4.00001 | 15.0000 | 23.75 | 15.00 | 6.00


Windshear closes the gap between fury cost and fury gen much faster than weapon master as APS increases, meaning less fury gen required from reaper wraps and taking damage. Both are fine during the rift clear - the problem is single target, and when trying to maintain a big snapshot on a single target I don't think weapon master will cut it.

Were you running with s2p on? I have 8k LPH, 7k LPK, 1.1k LPFS, 0 globe bonus, and healing is ok. I'm running Rampage, Ruthless, Relentless and Nerves of Steel for passives, and OP:CA in place of Rend though that's subject to change. Basically substituted weapon master for another defensive passive. Ideally I would switch one of the defensive for an offensive but still getting a feel for what's needed in the higher GR's for now.

You do need to be careful charging into a new pack, though, when heavily relying on globes for healing. What I've found to work is running forward, getting their attention, then fleeing a bit, let tornadoes proc some globes, grab a couple, engage, then pick up a globe now and then as needed.

For healing from LPFS to be viable you need it on both weapon and belt, for approx. 3.4k lpfs. And spam battle rage for the life tap - 3.4k * 35 fury/sec = 119k life/sec, not bad. I know Freudian has had success at least up to 55 by stacking lpfs. Also you want less %life/vit and more AR/mitigation, ex I would recommend AR/EDR on chest and AR on bracers instead of %life/vit, because you get more ehp returned from static healing sources. This doesn't apply to Blood Lust/Blood Funnel since they scale with hp.

Life per hit doesn't scale nearly as well as LPFS. It's nice if you get it for free, but I wouldn't recommend it. Freudian and I had a great discussion on this topic and both the math and test results proved LPFS is a better healing source.
Ok so TAO, blood funnel, weapons master.

Infernal maiden at 55. Stayed on her entire fight and took everything she threw on the chin. Ran out of fury only on 2 occasions when globes refused to spawn but still finished in time with about 30 secs remaining.

Blood maw at 56 with same setup, same strategy. Had no fury during half the fight, basically when he starts jumping. Although I suppose he's not worth the time no matter what setup you choose. Needless to say it was a big fail. Never ran into that problem with wind shear, though like you I ran into all kinds of other problems with wind shear lol. I ran with 2400 LPFS on IKBB and 1200 on belt but same as you I got destroyed in 53 which I do with ease using blood funnel.

That's the biggest shortfall of using IKBB with CoE and blood funnel, and why wind shear comes into the discussion. Having said that, it's still working out pretty good for me so I'll continue sticking with that setup until I get my hands on ancient BKs.
Blood Funnel healing per sec @ 1m life, single target:
APS | ticks per sec | crit chance
min | max | | 50% | 55% | 60% | 65% | 70%
1.00000 | 1.00000 | 3.00 | 15000 | 16500 | 18000 | 19500 | 21000
1.00001 | 1.05263 | 3.16 | 15800 | 17380 | 18960 | 20540 | 22120
1.05264 | 1.11111 | 3.33 | 16650 | 18315 | 19980 | 21645 | 23310
1.11112 | 1.17647 | 3.53 | 17650 | 19415 | 21180 | 22945 | 24710
1.17648 | 1.25000 | 3.75 | 18750 | 20625 | 22500 | 24375 | 26250
1.25001 | 1.33333 | 4.00 | 20000 | 22000 | 24000 | 26000 | 28000
1.33334 | 1.42857 | 4.29 | 21450 | 23595 | 25740 | 27885 | 30030
1.42858 | 1.53846 | 4.62 | 23100 | 25410 | 27720 | 30030 | 32340
1.53847 | 1.66666 | 5.00 | 25000 | 27500 | 30000 | 32500 | 35000
1.66667 | 1.81818 | 5.45 | 27250 | 29975 | 32700 | 35425 | 38150
1.81819 | 2.00000 | 6.00 | 30000 | 33000 | 36000 | 39000 | 42000
2.00001 | 2.22222 | 6.67 | 33350 | 36685 | 40020 | 43355 | 46690
2.22223 | 2.50000 | 7.50 | 37500 | 41250 | 45000 | 48750 | 52500
2.50001 | 2.85714 | 8.57 | 42850 | 47135 | 51420 | 55705 | 59990
2.85715 | 3.33333 | 10.00 | 50000 | 55000 | 60000 | 65000 | 70000
3.33334 | 4.00000 | 12.00 | 60000 | 66000 | 72000 | 78000 | 84000
4.00001 | 5.00000 | 15.00 | 75000 | 82500 | 90000 | 97500 | 105000


I'll concede that losing blood funnel is a big healing loss since it scales with # targets hit. One way to look at it is 3.4k lpfs is equivalent to blood funnel at 2.00001 breakpoint vs. 3 targets @ 1m life and 60% CHC.

06/03/2015 04:55 PMPosted by Stormrider
Ran out of fury only on 2 occasions when globes refused to spawn but still finished in time with about 30 secs remaining.


This is the primary reason that I went with windshear, because it does a better job solving the fury problem single-target and losing a good snapshot on the RG halves your DPS. And I know of people that have cleared 56 with windshear, so blood funnel is certainly not required for healing.

Perhaps fishing with a mara's, weapons master will be sufficient to maintain fury vs. Ghom or Hamelin. Fury from damage taken is calculated before immunity so you will still generate significant fury from sitting in poison.

Another option is to run Rend:Bloodlust along with WW:Windshear to help with healing during the rift clear, since it's another healing source that scales with # of targets.
Kuzoh stop tempting me. I'm already low on mats as is lol.
there is no happy end for IKBB. u lack healing but u gain fury. U solved fury but lack that tanky healing. its a trade off and there is no other way except u have native ikbb that rolls with Lpfs and u can still have that high weapon dmg. I have tried it all.
06/03/2015 12:01 PMPosted by Tao
06/02/2015 05:35 PMPosted by Baconinja
Grats Tao. I know you can do 55-56.


Thanks buddy.

Save me from my stack of 55 keys. They haunt me!

Congrats on 58. Does this mean we need to trial 59 keys now?


Yeah Tao, you can do it easily I'm sure. Just need to slam keys.
06/03/2015 08:42 AMPosted by Tao
GR 54 complete. =D


congrats Tao :)
06/03/2015 12:24 PMPosted by Bloodyzbub
Whoa, whoa, whoa.....I'm calling dibs on 57 keys....pretty please with sugar on top.


Let's try to get some in this weekend. I think Kriz want's 57s too. I'm usually good for 5-10 keys before we run some speed rifts.
06/04/2015 12:49 AMPosted by Samir
Yeah Tao, you can do it easily I'm sure. Just need to slam keys.


Thanks! Might burn a few this weekend and just cherry pick ideal map and mobs. Let's get some speed runs in. I'm stacking 41 keys again, but last time I noticed we were running 38s. What do you think is optimal.

06/04/2015 01:08 AMPosted by demonknight
congrats Tao :)


Thank you! I'm lucky to have such a helpful community. It's us against the demons.
41 because its 250 shard cap. 42 is same shards but slower. This is if you farm gear.

If you farm XP, its whatever you can move through while killing without stopping.

If you farm solo keys is 45 for you since you want 45+10 for 55.

I usually try to do 48+10 or 49+10. That is how I got 100+ 59s. But you need a strong single target toon in there for the RG- either nats DH or a carnevil doc. Been gearing up Nats DH for this reason actually.
06/04/2015 08:40 AMPosted by Samir
41 because its 250 shard cap. 42 is same shards but slower. This is if you farm gear.

If you farm XP, its whatever you can move through while killing without stopping.

If you farm solo keys is 45 for you since you want 45+10 for 55.

I usually try to do 48+10 or 49+10. That is how I got 100+ 59s. But you need a strong single target toon in there for the RG- either nats DH or a carnevil doc. Been gearing up Nats DH for this reason actually.


Great answer, very complete. Thanks.

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