SSS animation needs to be looked at for 2.3

Monk
The issue of SSS removing control from the player for a fixed 2.33 seconds has been discussed MANY times on this forum. With the upcoming set, this should take very immediate priority.

As it stands, with the cube in play now it is possible to reduce the cooldown of SSS to 1.53 seconds but the animation will not give us back control of our character at all during this time.

Simple fix is reducing the time of the attack animation to ~1 second.

Another thought someone mentioned in another post was giving it the ability to scale with attack speed.

The animation can be separated from our toon.

There are options available I hope to see at test of something being worked on for the attack animation of SSS. Expect a thread in the ptr forum about the skill alone.
Hm I'm not so sure about this myself. Just because we can get the cooldown very low doesn't neccerssrily mean they will want us to use it that often. If we could cast it every 1.5 seconds we could just spam it which sounds too extreme and if we remained immune during it rather over powered.

I'd rather see it go the other way where we need to spend some time generating between casts while we wait for it to come off cooldown and I'd imagine the desire to use shelongs with the set may well facilitate that.

Spamming SSS doesn't sound like a great idea. Just my 2 cents.
06/25/2015 09:20 PMPosted by PaulC
Spamming SSS doesn't sound like a great idea. Just my 2 cents.


I agree. But there are other build options than the shenlong set. One could easily go with fist of az + any other 1 hander to allow SSS to be spammed and EP to be on a permanent buff. The fact that it can still deal respectable damage while making us invincible should be case enough to give reason to look at the skill.
Inb4 they say it. SSS: now begins it's cooldown after it's animation is complete.
06/25/2015 09:35 PMPosted by PaulC
Inb4 they say it. SSS: now begins it's cooldown after it's animation is complete.


Honestly, that's the most logical step to take so we don't end up abusing perma-invincibility.
06/25/2015 09:35 PMPosted by PaulC
Inb4 they say it. SSS: now begins it's cooldown after it's animation is complete.


And that is a "solution" I would rather have avoided since it will effectively be a nerf to all the builds using the new set. And I'm sure it can be agreed that if our best end build is one that hinges completely on being invincible then it is a really cheap set up. The suggestions I put make it so it isn't possible to be invincible at least.
You can actually get it down to 0.38s with the cube to get flow of eternity on wep and leoric on armor using dual wield and cdr in all slots including ammy.
06/26/2015 12:30 AMPosted by BrianL
You can actually get it down to 0.38s with the cube to get flow of eternity on wep and leoric on armor using dual wield and cdr in all slots including ammy.


Wrong check banned of gamers cdr tool or recheck your math. The lowest it can get is 1.44 more exactly. And yes that is with DW, perfect leorics, belt, gogok, and everything with max cdr rolls and legacy kekegis ubreakable spirit that has cdr roll max also.
The invul of SSS can be good or bad. Sometimes you can jump over arcane, iceboms, Boss burst with it, sometimes you end your animation short of an exploding icebomb or one of those nasty exploding monsters ( the ones that eplode to a fishswarm - i hate them). Perma invul shouldnt be possible but i think they will use the nerf version to prevent it.
06/26/2015 03:33 AMPosted by electrofux
i think they will use the nerf version to prevent it.


why don't we avoid that and simply find ways to shorten the animation
06/25/2015 09:02 PMPosted by Blackglitch
The issue of SSS removing control from the player for a fixed 2.33 seconds has been discussed MANY times on this forum. With the upcoming set, this should take very immediate priority.

As it stands, with the cube in play now it is possible to reduce the cooldown of SSS to 1.53 seconds but the animation will not give us back control of our character at all during this time.

Simple fix is reducing the time of the attack animation to ~1 second.

Another thought someone mentioned in another post was giving it the ability to scale with attack speed.

The animation can be separated from our toon.

There are options available I hope to see at test of something being worked on for the attack animation of SSS. Expect a thread in the ptr forum about the skill alone.


What should every one be more preoccupied is
This set completely by default dissed the use of Explosion palm bracers, head SSS that applies exploding palm and the daibo for SSS


the time is least of you concern
why?

Because that 2.33sec means u are immune to all dmg while u do dmg
That the secondary effect of SSS skill

GG for sunwoko and kunai cube only fun thing
06/26/2015 04:33 AMPosted by Enoone
the time is least of you concern
why?


shorter time = faster skill rotation = more damage

The way it is now means that there is a fixed ceiling
The thing is, the animation is wat makes SSS being kinda "iconic" - even though it has been an useless skill since the release of the game. Making the animation shorter is probably necessary but the animation is also the reason why this skill is so cool.

I like the idea of the animation scaling with your Attackspeed though.

On another note, I think it's kind of sad that it seems like the viability of a skill is reliant on how short the animation is (or if it has one). I remember threads after the second rework of SWK where people complained that monks will now waste to much time because the bell has a cast-animation while the mantras (back then used for proccing SWK) hadn't one.
Bleh, I thought SSS cast time was already reduced to 1s, but it still seems to be 2s or so. Does he cast time increase with distance between targets?

Though it is debatable whether dashing in place 12 times in a row is more entertaining ^_^;
you go from the assumption that your Cool-down will reset before 2.3 sec?
or that u can actually spam it so fast and not need to worry about spirit regen?

trust me you wont

or don't trust me, wait the PTR test it on actual field then tell how much u hate the 2.3 sec immunity and prefer it be none at all
06/26/2015 05:12 AMPosted by Volun
The thing is, the animation is wat makes SSS being kinda "iconic" - even though it has been an useless skill since the release of the game. Making the animation shorter is probably necessary but the animation is also the reason why this skill is so cool.

I like the idea of the animation scaling with your Attackspeed though.

On another note, I think it's kind of sad that it seems like the viability of a skill is reliant on how short the animation is (or if it has one). I remember threads after the second rework of SWK where people complained that monks will now waste to much time because the bell has a cast-animation while the mantras (back then used for proccing SWK) hadn't one.


I know. SSS is the specific skill that got me into the game and monks.
An idea that can work that will allow us to keep the full animation, is make it so the skill animation is separate from the monk. We can simply say it is 7 after images from the monk moving so fast
XD

06/26/2015 05:16 AMPosted by Enoone
you go from the assumption that your Cool-down will reset before 2.3 sec?
or that u can actually spam it so fast and not need to worry about spirit regen?

trust me you wont

or don't trust me, wait the PTR test it on actual field then tell how much u hate the 2.3 sec immunity and prefer it be none at all


Full U6 set
max cdr in all gear except amy
gogok
fist of az + SSS gets extra X strikes fist both with max cdr

kanai cube
FoE (automatically becomes 60%)
madstone
CoE

10% rcr from paragon
10% cdr from paragon
beacon of ytar

Final SSS cooldown using SA rune = 2.11
cast time = 2.33

SSS:SA 45 spirit per cast
epiphany base rune 20 * 2.33 = 46.6 spirit regained per cast

you now have a permanent and invincible SSS build. I don't assume I know.
good theory crafting

so you counted a 65% reduce cooldown form gear? to reach 2.11

why then you need it to risk and lower it to less time?

u could actually use that time to throw a random primary hit to proc bracers or FNR

but still u need to wait PTR, even with perfect theory crafting you just did u still need that window to be free how ever, and instead of going full CD reduction u could go more other stats since u how ever in between SSS will need to hit at least once some other skill

LONG story sort, dont trash over things only base don theory :D
after all this is blizz theory and practice different things
06/26/2015 06:19 AMPosted by Enoone
good theory crafting

so you counted a 65% reduce cooldown form gear? to reach 2.11

why then you need it to risk and lower it to less time?

u could actually use that time to throw a random primary hit to proc bracers or FNR


FoE on top is what brings the cooldown past the break point of it's cast time. You wouldn't even need F/R throw on SoJ and traveler's pledge jewelry set and it would actively overtake the best theory option for a shenlongs counterpart already, F/R can be very useful for GR pushes I admit but then that simply means you are basically invincible as long as you know to watch out for anything that happens to try and be swinging your way at that point.

06/26/2015 06:19 AMPosted by Enoone
but still u need to wait PTR, even with perfect theory crafting you just did u still need that window to be free how ever, and instead of going full CD reduction u could go more other stats since u how ever in between SSS will need to hit at least once some other skill

LONG story sort, dont trash over things only base don theory :D
after all this is blizz theory and practice different things


Remember blizz responded to permanent serenity because we theorycrafted that it would be possible even though we didn't have the chance to test the ring yet on the ptr. I don't see any issue with looking at issue's with theory since they are still based off of logic. This is providing info about a potential problem before it becomes reality. As it stands logically this is just like serenity except it nukes monsters while making you invincible.

The invincibility was not my original inspiration to bring up this issue. Other than the fact that it has been brought forward MANY times works on the cast animation will be a boost to the shenlong builds, and will make fist of az + SSS fist weapon builds equally as vulnerable without hurting damage. Much better than the real possibility of "cooldown begins at the end of skill" possibility being an across the board nerf to any potential SSS build, reducing all damage for the sake of making sure a cheap mechanic can't be abused.
06/26/2015 04:33 AMPosted by Enoone

This set completely by default dissed the use of Explosion palm bracers, head SSS that applies exploding palm and the daibo for SSS

[/quote]

Why is that? Using Madstone will still be the fastest and safest way to apply Palms and reducing the CD for SSS will still be needed badly.

And i am not decided on wether i would like to shorten the length of SSS since it also shortens your invul. Using SSS has allways been a matter of good timing and i would never use it as a hardcore player.
But to be honest, i have no perfect solution to prevent perma invul at hand and given the numbers above and the fact that the cube reads out items at max makes it fairly easy to set up a perma invul set. Maybe the Daibo gets nerfed (which i wouldnt like either).

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