The End of my MVP Journey

General Discussion
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Good luck Jaetch.
Your contributions to the Diablo 3 communities are appreciated.

Please continue to create the abc 101 guides whenever possible.
07/08/2015 09:14 AMPosted by Junger
Why isn't my name green yet?


Junger for president!

Also, thank you Jaetch for all your contributions in both time and effort to the Diablo 3 community.

But, I would also like to know whether I should be using green or red gem in my weapon.
07/09/2015 09:21 PMPosted by Lance
But, I would also like to know whether I should be using green or red gem in my weapon.


I am pretty sure he said green. It is in this thread somewhere.
I am sad as I will miss your posts/ builds/ wisdom, but am happy for you at the same time.
07/09/2015 11:39 PMPosted by ehanna
I am sad as I will miss your posts/ builds/ wisdom, but am happy for you at the same time.


I'm sure we'll still see Jaetch® branded builds as we go along. It'll just be fewer and farther between since he'll be enjoying the game more for itself than for holding up an entire community. :)
________________________________________________
Technical Support MVP
Prime Directives:
1. Serve the public trust.
2. Protect the innocent.
3. Uphold the law.
4. Smash, Jay, Smash!
We have lost a voice that promoted fair play and a champion of the game.

The effort you put into the breakdown and deciphering the mechanics of the wizard class will always be epic. The best part of this decision that you made is to see you actually get back to the basics that brought you to this game, you enjoy it.

I thank you for keeping this game that some of us have stuck by in good and bad fun.
who are you?
Godspeed Jaetch!
Just don't give up on Diablo, it is getting better and better.
@MissCheetah,
I think it has more to do with MVP being a form of community elevation that is outside the community's control.

If you're great at something, then it should be the community that gives you the corresponding honorific, not Blizzard. As long as Blizzard is the one administering the MVP membership that establishes a connection between you and Blizzard just as much as it does between you and the community. If the community picks, there is no connection between you an Blizzard, the perception would be different. But the community doesn't pick, and that's the taints of the MVP program. It's like being a journalist that accepted a handout from the company you are reviewing- maybe you're still honest, but you now have an incentive to be dishonest in the company's favor. Whether you succumb or not, the incentive is there and it's publicly known. It's "MVP according to Blizzard" not "MVP according to community."
07/10/2015 08:35 AMPosted by Polaris
@MissCheetah,
I think it has more to do with MVP being a form of community elevation that is outside the community's control.

If you're great at something, then it should be the community that gives you the corresponding honorific, not Blizzard. As long as Blizzard is the one administering the MVP membership that establishes a connection between you and Blizzard just as much as it does between you and the community. If the community picks, there is no connection between you an Blizzard, the perception would be different. But the community doesn't pick, and that's the taints of the MVP program. It's like being a journalist that accepted a handout from the company you are reviewing- maybe you're still honest, but you now have an incentive to be dishonest in the company's favor. Whether you succumb or not, the incentive is there and it's publicly known. It's "MVP according to Blizzard" not "MVP according to community."

People often forget (or possibly don't know) that the P in MVP doesn't stand for player, it stands for poster.

The point of the MVP program is to highlight posters that have been shown to be helpful to the community. There seems to be a very severe disconnect here between what the community wants MVP's to be and what MVP's actually are. This is probably Blizzard's fault for not making it clear (even to their own MVP's) but MVP's are chosen for their posting ability alone.

The main criteria for an MVP candidate is one who is helpful and courteous to everyone they interact with. They need not be the best player, or have thousands of hours logged into a game, what matters is whether or not Blizzard feels that elevating that person's visibility will lead to a net benefit for the community as a whole.

I for instance was chosen not for my ability to analyze the game, nor my ability to make suggestions. (Suggestions / Analysis are all considered equally regardless of who posts them) I was chosen for my ability to promote and engage others in constructive dialogue. All of the other things I did were inconsequential and were not part of why I had the MVP title.

Eventually, trolls got the better of me and the title drove me to the point where I stopped caring about what I was doing altogether and the stress I had to deal with because of a lack of understanding about what the program actually means. So I left.

Had my title said something like MVP - General Discussion or MVP - Game Philosophy it probably would have been much clearer what the purpose of having an MVP around actually is.

Personally, I think the title is quite meaningless and very very few MVP's actually understand why they were chosen in the first place.

The fansite MVP's are flagged so that they can relay fansite related news. The Class MVP's are highlighted because they're both knowledgeable about a specific class and friendly. The generic MVP's (Which is what I was and what Jaetch was chosen as) were highlighted because of our ability to pursue constructive dialogue and help others present their ideas more clearly. My job when I was an MVP wasn't to make suggestions, it was to provoke others into engaging in a rational discussion.

MVP's will never be community chosen for this reason. MVP's aren't chosen because they're the best of the best at playing the game. MVP's are chosen because they're helpful and promote a healthier posting environment. Unfortunately, there's too much misinformation floating around about what an MVP actually is and as a result, MVP's are trolled relentlessly.

Do I think the MVP program is worthless? Not entirely, it does have its purposes for helping create constructive conversations. But in all honesty, I can do that just as well if not better than having such an empty title in the first place. The title ends up being nothing more than flame bait and it ironically makes it harder for the MVP that was chosen to do what they were aiming to do in the first place.

Sometimes I wish I would have stuck it out, but then other times when I see the playerbase go on an "MVP Witch Hunt" I'm glad I left.

MVP's still have to represent Blizzard, and as such, the criteria for becoming one is quite strict. MVP's are free to dissent themselves, but they must do so civilly and without being non-constructive.

Jaetch was never "assigned" to do the things he mentioned in the OP. They were all self appointed and reinforced by the community's lack of understanding about what an MVP actually is. It sucks that it wore him down as it wore me down, but I really don't blame him for leaving.
07/10/2015 08:58 AMPosted by Drothvader
MVP's still have to represent Blizzard, and as such, the criteria for becoming one is quite strict. MVP's are free to dissent themselves, but they must do so civilly and without being non-constructive.


No, we do not represent Blizzard and Blizzard made that quite clear. We represent ourselves and ourselves only. When we have an opinion, it is OUR opinion. We are not told what to think or what to say. We do not have to follow some sort of script or mission statement. The only thing we have to follow is the forum CoC. If we have an issue, we are free to say so, we just have to be constructive about it. Raging on the forums is not something we get to do, but most of us were never the sort to do so anyway.

A reminder from the MVP FAQ http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716
Those chosen for the program aren’t official representatives of Blizzard, and they don’t have to agree with every decision we make. They also aren’t expected to give up their posting personas in order to join.


07/10/2015 08:58 AMPosted by Drothvader
MVP's will never be community chosen

07/10/2015 08:35 AMPosted by Polaris
I think it has more to do with MVP being a form of community elevation that is outside the community's control.


Some actually are. For instance I was nominated by many players for helping them with issues. In the end, Blizzard reviewed my post history and decided I was both helpful and able to follow the forum rules. I was then given the choice to be an MVP or not. I took about a week to decide and eventually decided to do it - if only to make it easy for players to focus on what is likely correct info, vs someone trolling them (hit alt F4 to fix your game lolol). My role is not to help with class/game philosophy though.

That said, some of the other posters are indeed selected by Blizzard for being constructive posters. I see why that might rub some the wrong way, but the D3 MVPs don't tend to be ego tripping monsters. They tend to genuinely try to help on the forums as best as they can.
No, we do not represent Blizzard and Blizzard made that quite clear.

MVP's are chosen by Blizzard and as a result still represent Blizzard's reputation as a company.

While no, you do not represent Blizzard's IDEAS you represent their image. If you cannot abide by the CoC and your modus operandi is to troll other players you will not be chosen.

You're allowed to dissent as an MVP, but you are not allowed to dissent in a non-constructive manner. At the end of the day, you are a part of Blizzard's Public Relations Strategy.

I think you're taking what I said a little more literal than I intended.

07/10/2015 09:25 AMPosted by MissCheetah
Some actually are. For instance I was nominated by many players for helping them with issues. In the end, Blizzard reviewed my post history and decided I was both helpful and able to follow the forum rules. I was then given the choice to be an MVP or not.

Correct, anyone can nominate MVP's, but in the end it doesn't matter if the community wants a certain player to become an MVP if Blizzard does not feel that player is a good candidate.

As such, MVP's will never be community chosen, only the chance to be nominated by their peers.
That said, some of the other posters are indeed selected by Blizzard for being constructive posters. I see why that might rub some the wrong way, but the D3 MVPs don't tend to be ego tripping monsters. They tend to genuinely try to help on the forums as best as they can.


I can attest to this directly. I was having terrible problems with lag and dc's, and like a lot of posters, I went on a mini-rant against Blizz and their "awful" servers. MissCheetah read my post and guided me through the steps needed to figure out where my problem was.

Lo and behold! It wasn't Blizzard's servers after all, but rather an outdated modem/router combination that was causing all the trouble. I replaced them and now I'm problem free.

This process took a couple of days. MissCheetah stayed with me the entire time until she figured it out and told me how to fix it. She didn't get paid for spending all that time with me. She could have been playing the game herself instead of reading my pathpings and traceroutes. She is my D3 Hero and I am grateful for her efforts.

There's a lot more to being an MVP than just green text peeps.
There's a lot of reading between the lines and extrapolating ulterior motives when it comes to discussing MVPs/MVP program. Do we really need a system with that kind of baggage, is this a constructive thing for the community to contemplate or bicker about? I try to speak plainly, but the assumption and critique of subtext is overwhelming on this subject.

Like Droth said, he can still contribute without the MVP tag. I say, what is the benefit to the community from the MVP program? The only things it seems to do from our end is give green text and some (perhaps misguided) implication of Blizzard's approval, which acts as a lightning rod. Whether the lightning rod effect is fair or not, it's there because of Blizzard's official sanction & operation of the program as a whole. The positive seems to be to highlight posts. Now that we have visible votes though, quality contributions can stand out on their own, without having to green-ify everything certain users say. The benefit of MVP is largely lost now that we have a basic voting system. The negative effect persists which is the lightning rod effect, because it has a tendency to unify the community against something/someone.

Well, I didn't mean to come off so dour on the MVP program, but now that I've written it, I can't identify where to soften my position. So I'll just leave it like that. It's a logical argument, and logic has a tendency to come off as callous and uncaring when written out, even when the person writing it may feel different.
07/10/2015 08:58 AMPosted by Drothvader
Unfortunately, there's too much misinformation floating around about what an MVP actually is and as a result, MVP's are trolled relentlessly.

Oh, don't forget jealousy. The topic was reported because of, you know, sour grapes...
07/10/2015 02:25 PMPosted by Polaris
Like Droth said, he can still contribute without the MVP tag. I say, what is the benefit to the community from the MVP program? The only things it seems to do from our end is give green text and some (perhaps misguided) implication of Blizzard's approval, which acts as a lightning rod.


We have had some good discussions on this over on the WoW boards too. ( I do Customer and Tech support there as well). We kind of came to the conclusion that General MVPs end up bearing the brunt of the hate, while not really saying anything they could not say as normal players (with upvotes). That said, the "oh no an MVP posted in this thread" tag can target them for harassment, even when they are just being friendly, off topic, or giving a personal opinion.

We felt that MVP was best suited to Class forums where individuals write guides and are class experts and for the Support forums CS/TS where it helps to know the person responding might have some decent background and/or reachback to CMs when needed.

I have no clue what they will do with the MVP programs in the future, just understand there is not ONE, there are actually several depending on what category the person falls in (see my first post).
Lol.

Someone nominate me for MVP.

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