*4* Ways To Support Solo Players.

General Discussion
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Not good enough for what exactly?

You have a special reward for an especially difficult environment.
You're not supposed to farm it, just do it for the challenge - that's what GRs are: challenges.


Okay then cap everything at normal and move the torment only items to normal and I think you will clearly see what I am talking about.

The powercreep is a completely different argument, but I agree sets need huge nerfs.
If they don't want to nerf sets, TX could be brought up to lvl 60 or 70 - not a very difficult change indeed.


I am not talking power creep, I am talking about what the majority would do. They would do what is the most efficient. And under a cap where T10 would be the limit as far as rewards goes that is what they would do. They would only play GR45 and no higher unless they knew that they had a shot at the leader boards.

07/18/2015 04:49 PMPosted by Deus
What majority? You? Because you're used to farm GRs and you don't want your broken XP multiplier to be taken away?


Look I have played solo so much that I have forgotten the last time I have teamed up. I know how these players would react. The majority that would know that they have no shot at the leader boards would just play T10 normal rifts and stop at GR45 because of the cap. Because that route would be the most efficient way to play the game.
07/19/2015 04:30 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Okay then cap everything at normal and move the torment only items to normal and I think you will clearly see what I am talking about.
You are purposefully misleading the discussion interjecting false statements.

Capping GRs rewards comes from the fact that in GRs rewards are multiplicative when in the rest of the game they're additive.

This brings the huge disparity between GRs and the rest of the game.

Advancing Torment levels brings more rewards and harder content, advancing GR levels brings more rewards with an (admittedly) broken multiplicative buff.
Change back the GR buffs to being additive like in the rest of the game and see balance rolling back in.

As things are now, capping the rewards at TX would still have GRs be better simply because of this additive/multiplicative difference.

07/19/2015 04:30 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
I am talking about what the majority would do. They would do what is the most efficient. And under a cap where T10 would be the limit as far as rewards goes that is what they would do. They would only play GR45 and no higher unless they knew that they had a shot at the leader boards.
It is already what they do.
Nobody pushes higher GRs for better rewards, they complete GR42, where bloodshards have their cap, in about 2 minutes to take advantage of the multiplicative bonuses and targeted gambling.
It's already an efficiency race.

What would be the problem of having the "efficient spot" broadened to the entire game instead of only the GRs, that nobody would push GRs anymore? Nobody does already.
07/07/2015 08:57 AMPosted by Starbird
4) A long term idea: Give each merc a unique skill (we can choose it in their talent tree) and assign it to a new button. It would be a long cooldown but powerful ability to make solo play a little more interesting.

For example:
Templar: Will Of The Templar - You and your follower become immune to all damage for 2 seconds and are healed by 20% of your maximum health every second for 3 seconds after this effect ends.

Scoundrel: Thieves' Guild - Summons 4 duplicates of the Scoundrel that uses the same abilities as your follower. These last for 30 seconds. When a duplicate dies, you gain 20% increased damage for 3 seconds.

Enchantress: Morph Ovum. All enemies on screen are turned into chickens and take 30% more damage. Lasts for 10 seconds, 5 seconds on elite monsters.

Diablo 2 mercenary each had 3 variants. Keep the existing 4 follower skill choices but introduce a fifth that has 3 choices not 2. Using a "Equip on Follower: Gain access to all skills." relic would not give all 3 variants. You have to choose one.
You are purposefully misleading the discussion interjecting false statements.

Capping GRs rewards comes from the fact that in GRs rewards are multiplicative when in the rest of the game they're additive.

This brings the huge disparity between GRs and the rest of the game.

Advancing Torment levels brings more rewards and harder content, advancing GR levels brings more rewards with an (admittedly) broken multiplicative buff.
Change back the GR buffs to being additive like in the rest of the game and see balance rolling back in.

As things are now, capping the rewards at TX would still have GRs be better simply because of this additive/multiplicative difference.


I was replying to those that were saying to cap the rewards at the highest difficulty level which will be TX. Meaning that anything pass GR45 will not give you better rewards even though it would still be harder content. That goes against the risk vs. reward structure that all games have.

Now if those want to get rid of the risk vs. reward for this game. Then put everything on normal and let the rewards for normal be where the cap is if you really shouldn't have better gear for playing harder content. Where the only reward for higher content is what they were saying is just the challenge and bragging rights. I am using this extreme to show them how silly capping it would be that is regardless of whether it would work or not.

That is not gonna be enough regardless of how the rewards are structured. They could be structured to add .0000001 (that is right in points not percent) for every GR level.

07/19/2015 04:55 AMPosted by Deus
It is already what they do.
Nobody pushes higher GRs for better rewards, they complete GR42, where bloodshards have their cap, in about 2 minutes to take advantage of the multiplicative bonuses and targeted gambling.
It's already an efficiency race.

What would be the problem of having the "efficient spot" broadened to the entire game instead of only the GRs, that nobody would push GRs anymore? Nobody does already.


Well someone has to be pushing or you would see the GR leader boards capped at GR42 but you don't so there are those that are pushing for that stuff. How many is unknown.

The way the game is designed is to push us to play GR anyway because they are the new star of the show, why it is unknown. Which means it would be hard to have and efficiency spot that would extend to the rest of the game.
You could just make legendary gems work with followers. That would power them up a bit
Also let you use all 3 followers at the same with Leg gems. that would be perfect.
07/19/2015 04:01 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Well someone has to be pushing or you would see the GR leader boards capped at GR42 but you don't so there are those that are pushing for that stuff. How many is unknown.
Sure they push it, they do it for the bragging rights, not for the rewards.
All those people you see in high spots on the leaderboards spent their days speedfarming GRs 45 and recycling keys.
Then they farmed a few high level keys in trials and took their chances at opening rifts until they found a zombie one.

Are you really suggesting anything other than this is going on?

07/19/2015 04:01 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
The way the game is designed is to push us to play GR anyway because they are the new star of the show, why it is unknown. Which means it would be hard to have and efficiency spot that would extend to the rest of the game.
No, people push GRs up to the point of speedfarming, then they abuse the broken multiplicative XP buff and the bloodshard gambling.
Noone pushes GRs since the best way to abuse them is stopping at an absurdly easy level.
They seem very reluctant to make meaningful changes right now. Most of the reasons the solo play disadvantage versus group play advantages exist are still present.

I ponder whether there's an internal policy, belief or notion group play is good business. Maybe based on prior metrics or something, who knows.

Regardless, it's hard to argue for change when we don't know exactly what the motivation against it is.
Sure they push it, they do it for the bragging rights, not for the rewards.
All those people you see in high spots on the leaderboards spent their days speedfarming GRs 45 and recycling keys.
Then they farmed a few high level keys in trials and took their chances at opening rifts until they found a zombie one.

Are you really suggesting anything other than this is going on?


If bragging rights is enough for the majority then why not remove the risk vs. reward formula entirely. By making it possible to get all of the gear you need from normal and cap the rewards at the same rates that normal gives. If bragging rights are enough then make it that way for the entire game. Where any difficulty above normal is for just bragging rights. I am sure that won't work and it won't work for the higher tiers of GRs either.

07/20/2015 01:07 AMPosted by Deus
No, people push GRs up to the point of speedfarming, then they abuse the broken multiplicative XP buff and the bloodshard gambling.
Noone pushes GRs since the best way to abuse them is stopping at an absurdly easy level.


Mind rereading what I wrote I didn't talk about pushing GRs in that quote. I was talking about the fact that GRs are the star of the show for some unknown reason. Even though the cube will take some of the spotlight. Still the game designed to push us to play GRs. When you have a reward structure where the star is GRs, with the second being the cube it would be kind of hard to truly have it where the rewards are balanced for the entire game where there is good reason to play the campaign, story mode. It is not and easy thing to accomplish. If it is doable then it would take an expansion, but how is unknown.
Could this not just be completely and easily balanced by doing the following:

- Allow a person to play with all the followers at once = 4 players.
- Give them the same xp/gf/mf bonus as you do with 2 player, 3 player, 4 players MP
- When grouped with more than 1 follower, only allow one chosen follower bonus to be applicable to your character (ie 3% attack speed only).

This takes care of the unity issue as well.
Ok, I do play a lot of "Solo" my self but I do also play in groups when I feel like it. That being said I think the one thing that really need to be done for the "Solo" player is a check option when making a char. The same way you check a season box or HC box. Once checked you can NEVER join a game or be joined by another player.

Over the last few years the "We need to be rewarded for our solo or self found play" has come up a lot in these forum's. There was a huge push for it right before the removal of the GAH/RMAH and I think it was in fact a contributing factor to their removal . I wont lie and say I did not enjoy messing around in the GAH now and then but I never found one of those "Lottery jackpot instant rich items."It did help me to get items that NEVER dropped for me IE:WH ,I found ONE right before RoS and that was it.

I would no have a problem in the least at Blizz buffing the "Solo" rewards if there was something like a "solo" check box that prevented a "solo" player from ever joining someone with that char. in a game.

I say this because more often that not I see people post how they "Solo this and solo that" yet when I look at their profiles you can tell right away that they have more than once played with others to get gear and or para level.

A prime example of this was during the "self found " push pre RoS there was a more vocal advocate of this posting all over about how he was oppressed by being "Self found" yet when I would cruz the D2JSP forms he was all over then making trades,Selling items,Looking for leveling jobs, and so on.

Again I say go ahead Blizz and Buff the "Solo" player to high heaven but add that check box to prevent the temptation of joining others after the player has benefited from the "solo" buff.

"Solo" Play is a choice make that choice mean something when they check that box.I would be much more impressed with some of these players when I look at their profiles and see the half dozen chars. in BiS gear and para 500+ that claim to be solo players if I could see the little solo play symbol in the char pic ,Than the same player with these BiS chars. claiming to be 100% "Solo"
Agreed fully^^^
07/20/2015 09:26 AMPosted by Agmo
Ok, I do play a lot of "Solo" my self but I do also play in groups when I feel like it. That being said I think the one thing that really need to be done for the "Solo" player is a check option when making a char. The same way you check a season box or HC box. Once checked you can NEVER join a game or be joined by another player


Again, creating a 'solo ghetto' really doesn't accomplish much and shouldn't be the 'solution' to this solo vs MP disparity.

Making both playstyles a valid choice hurts neither camp and also doesn't further stratify the playerbase.

As you said, sometimes people want to play by themselves, or maybe they used to play in groups and now all their friends quite and they don't like pub games. There is no real good reason to try to split the playstyles to this degree, they should just both be fun in their own right, don't you agree?
07/20/2015 10:14 AMPosted by Nesa
Again, creating a 'solo ghetto' really doesn't accomplish much and shouldn't be the 'solution' to this solo vs MP disparity.


As I see it you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want to be rewarded for "Solo" play or you want to be rewarded for "Solo" play when you feel like it. As I said I have no problem what so ever for rewarding people who choose to play "Solo" But I feel they should not be able to collect the "Solo" rewards when ever they feel like it .Then turn around and collect the "Group "rewards when ever they feel like it.

Again as I said above you can usually spot the part time "solo" players and I'm never impressed when they ask to be rewarded be cause they play "solo" when it's really blatant they have not spent 100% of their game time solo.

If you really want to play "Solo" make it a true choice not a "I feel like being rewarded for "solo" for a bit until I want to join my friends" choice.

I do not expect any different rewards,drops,exp boosts, and so on when I chose to play "solo". If I had a play "solo " check box I would in fact make at least one char for fun knowing that I can just get away from every one when I feel like it. As opposed to the random friend dropping into my game unannounced .
How about you just get some friends.

I play both solo and in groups with friends but rarely join public games as they are more of a hassle with people having terrible attitudes or just trying to leech. I would rather forego the group bonus and play solo than deal with random people's crap.

Would I like to see a buff to my character when I play by myself? Sure, but then again people are going to complain about needing a buff until they 1 shot everything and never die.

Would I stop playing in a group with friends if it did not add any additional rewards/xp from solo? No, if every decision you make about the game is to increase farming efficiency and not fun then you need to seriously reconsider your priorities. I get that doing things better and faster inherently comes with its own level of enjoyment but unless you are the type of person that only gets enjoyment from that type of thing then then stop worrying that people in a group get more xp than you, they are probably having a terrible experience in a lot of their games.

tl:dr -
Stop complaining and play the game to have fun. There are several really good ideas in this thread but Blizzard will either make changes or they won't.Try to stop and smell the demons every once in awhile.
07/20/2015 10:49 AMPosted by Agmo
But I feel they should not be able to collect the "Solo" rewards when ever they feel like it .Then turn around and collect the "Group "rewards when ever they feel like it.


Why not? The difference in rewards shouldn't really be that noticeable, should it?
I still don't understand why solo players are penalized.... or if you want to put it in more friendly terms, not getting the same treatment as those playing in a group.

I don't have 3 friends that are always online at the exact same time and want to do the same things I want to do... some want to farm cache's, some want to rift, some want to grift.... Not to mention seasons split the community to a detrimental state for those not wanting to waste their time starting over from scratch... which I do not and never will... the most I get out of seasons is waiting 3 months then bothering a guild mate who's bored out of his / her skull to PL me to 70 for some lame armor mod because "we gotta catch 'em all".

Also this game is just worthless playing as a diverse group because you can't gear share for the most part... If you're a Barbarian you should be playing with other Barbs and Crusaders... etc, etc.. ad nauseam.

Ugh still needs a lot of work. This cube update is only going to raise the bar on the end game for a couple weeks and we'll be right back to banging our heads against a wall on GR 52's instead of GR 45's.

Diablo 3, the game of infinite unsatisfaction.
Please look at the post I made earlier, this has to do with both single and multi player runs
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/18300734396
07/20/2015 09:26 AMPosted by Agmo
Ok, I do play a lot of "Solo" my self but I do also play in groups when I feel like it. That being said I think the one thing that really need to be done for the "Solo" player is a check option when making a char. The same way you check a season box or HC box. Once checked you can NEVER join a game or be joined by another player.

That would be bad design.
Lots of people as is also shown in this thread, plays both in groups and solo. Would reduce options and separate the playerbase if they suddenly had to choose only one.

The benefits in groups doesnt go away just because you log in solo once in your life, nor should the same buffs for solo go away just because you play with friends suddenly.

The whole purpose here is to create balance no matter if you are in a game with 3 other players, 2 other players, 1 other player, or simply alone.

07/20/2015 10:49 AMPosted by Agmo
But I feel they should not be able to collect the "Solo" rewards when ever they feel like it .Then turn around and collect the "Group "rewards when ever they feel like it.

If you get the buffs regardless of what you do, they simple become the standard. No longer is it about doing something for the rewards, but rather just do whatever you prefer.

Overall:
Same buffs, same monster difficulty for eveeryone, no matter how many players are in the game.
Make the current 62,5% HP per monster in 4-player games the standard in all games.
Make the 4-play SiN buff the standard in all games.
Done.


If Blizzard wanted to buff followers, then maybe the above could be adjusted a bit. like Instead of 62,5% HP on monsters, it was 70% and a buffed follower. The moment you go that route, of adjusting the followers, it becomes much harder to balance however (the follower is mostly meant as a small balance toward party buffs and teamwork after all).
So the easy route for now is to simply balance the current 4-player buffs to all amounts of players.
07/20/2015 08:06 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
By making it possible to get all of the gear you need from normal and cap the rewards at the same rates that normal gives
Again with this deflection...

GRs don't simply give more rewards, they give them with a multiplicative bonus which is nowhere to be found in the rest of the game.
Admittedly it was a bug but the devs decided not to correct it, so we have this current situation where the same level of difficulty reaps more rewards if played in a GR than in the rest of the game.

Is it clear now? Do I have to write it once more? Or you want to say again the trite "everything drops in normal" thing?

07/20/2015 08:06 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
I was talking about the fact that GRs are the star of the show for some unknown reason.
It's not "unknown". It's very well known: they give multiplicative bonuses that you can't have in the rest of the game.

07/20/2015 08:06 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
When you have a reward structure where the star is GRs, with the second being the cube it would be kind of hard to truly have it where the rewards are balanced for the entire game where there is good reason to play the campaign, story mode.
What are you on about? the cube mixed with the reward system? The cube is utility and power, not reward.

And the cube works the same in all the game and all difficulties, it doesn't become magically stronger when you enter a GR.

Seems to me you're quite confused.

07/20/2015 08:06 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
If it is doable then it would take an expansion, but how is unknown.
It's very doable: stop making GRs behaving differently than the rest of the game.

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