When did paragon level become mandatory?

General Discussion
Prev 1 2 3 4 6 Next
07/01/2015 10:12 AMPosted by WhatHitYou
They also need take care of the botters as well. Since they are increasing there paragon levels big time daily.


Nope wrong.

A ZDPS leech still has to use keys, group mobs, and provide some sort of cc to be useful. All this cannot be achieved with using a bot. A ZDPS has to make more play making than you think. But since we don't need dps it allows us to slot some exp gear.
Thanks for the discussion everyone - though I have to say I'm kind of shocked to see that so many people don't see paragon power creep as a problem.

Xabster made an excellent chart that highlights what the problem with paragon is:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/3dx8pu/heres_a_chart_that_shows_a_big_issue_with_paragon/
07/14/2015 01:11 PMPosted by Derpy
07/01/2015 10:12 AMPosted by WhatHitYou
They also need take care of the botters as well. Since they are increasing there paragon levels big time daily.


Nope wrong.

A ZDPS leech still has to use keys, group mobs, and provide some sort of cc to be useful. All this cannot be achieved with using a bot. A ZDPS has to make more play making than you think. But since we don't need dps it allows us to slot some exp gear.


Bots can do low level 30's with rrog and leorics helm and a hell fire ring. They can run solo pretty much nonstop and get as much as 3 levels a day above 1100.

So yes they need to get rid of the botters.

The botters also have infinite keys.
When blizzard ran out of ideas for content... We're getting jay wilsoned again :(
Paragon itself isn't mandatory, but the raw time investment (drastically boosted by co-op's arbitrary buffs) which lead to faster legendary farming. Paragon on it's own won't take you very far, but tallying tons of legs per hour will inevitably end up in a substantially faster progress.

Take a moment to compare the raw stat distribution between gear and paragon. Sure, every bit counts, but if we were to illustrate it with a pie graph, gear would appear like a pac-man figure munching on a ghost, simply because gear is excessively important, whereas paragon feels more like paper badge for partaking in the activity.

Those high paragons aren't kicking your !@# in the leaderboards because they got so many paragon levels, but because they've found way more stuff than you have.

Nevertheless, I still find the concept of infinite "progression" awfully inconvenient for an ARPG, specially one so deeply afflicted by limited, to not say completely nonexistent diversity. It gets even worse when a fresh character is magically boosted by the effort (or massive leeching exploits, for leaderboard connoisseurs) of another. Shareagon was, and still is a terrible idea.
@Blash

While gear obviously makes your character strong, you'll always get to a point where upgrades don't come often and you hit the gear wall. That's when paragon comes into play and after 800 can give you decent damage boost because like you said it's infinite and all going into main stat.

A guy with 1200 paragon will have an easier time pushing LBs than someone with only 800 paragon even if the guy had with 800 had slightly better gear. Assuming it's the same build and class.
07/01/2015 01:44 AMPosted by Bagstone
1) Scale down the XP gained. Basically, if it was 1/10th of what it is now, players wouldn't reach paragon 1500 after 2 months into the season (which is the fact now!), but rather "only" paragon ~870 (50 trillion versus 5 trillion combined XP required). However, that might impact some player's experience negatively... as high-level players wouldn't gain any paragon levels anymore, and low-level players might never reach that nice paragon 800. Therefore, a potentially better solution:

2) Make the benefit of paragon levels after 800 less "overpowered". Every level above 800 should only give one main stat, for example; and it should probably be pre-assigned to the core main stat (so you don't have to re-assign all the leftover points once you switch to a different character). It would still give high-paragon players a huge advantage (those paragon 2000 players would still have 1000 main stat more than active, but not super crazy players); but it wouldn't be as much of a difference as it is now (which is more than having all items ancient vs. non-ancient).

3) Above p800 make paragon scale exponentially, and apply it retroactively. A cap is a bad idea since the players who play more often deserve greater power (ie, since it's already designed that way), but there's no reason that the xp gain needs to be a simple linear increase per level. After p800 if it scales exponentially that will tighten the levels considerably, to where the players that are currently p2000 would be more like p1200 at the most, and it would require a 5-year marathon for anyone to even get to p1500.

Is it too late to make changes to the paragon system? I hope not...
Actually a cap is a good idea and should be introduced asap. At the same time, the drop rate of end game legendaries and sets should be lowered.

I always believe that "randomization" and "customization" are key elements indispensable for a great game. In the current build, D3 lacks in both elements, and it seems that the situation is getting worse. In each patch, endgame legendaries and sets are predetermined by devs and there is no room for players to deviate from them. With the introduction of kanai cube, you can collect endgame legendaries and sets in a short period of time or in a half month if you play D3 a bit hard. After you finish collecting endgame legendaries and sets, what you will do is just to farm exp to increase your paragon level. At this stage, you can foresee what you will be able to earn for a certain period of time. For example, you can foresee that you will be able to earn sixty billion xp which means main stat increase by five for one hour, but nothing else. So, there is no room for randomization or customization. It is boring and rather painful to play a game where you can foresee what will happen and what not.

I guess that devs have some data indicating many players quit playing D3 before collecting endgame legendaries or sets. So they have decided to lower the drop rate and further introduce kanai cube to please casual players while removing a PL cap for dedicated players. I don't think this is a good idea because anyway casual players quit sooner or later. If devs remain wedded to the current build design, what they will eventually have are grumbling, displeased dedicated players (i.e., loyal customers). After all D3 is and should be a game for dedicated players.
As mentioned in the linked post in #42, paragon level increase becomes linear after level 750. If you think that's bad, think again - after level 2000 there is no increase whatsoever. You will earn paragon faster and faster as you go on. I made a post about this on DiabloFans, because it has pictures on it I'll just link it here instead of copy/pasting the text:

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/130338-paragon-10000
Paragon just needs to have a complete overhaul period, it may have been a mistake from the start....overall in its current state it is extremely dull and adds nothing to your character.
Why not just cap main stat and vitality for paragon points? At plvl 800 you could have 1,000 main stat bonus from Paragon. Then you could have an additional 1,000 for every 200 plvls. Why not cap this at a maximum of 3,000 points in both main stat and vitality? This would give a paragon cap at 2,000.

Obviously the better solution would be to revamp paragon points...but that doesn't appear to be happening.
07/29/2015 06:48 AMPosted by Tzenesh
Obviously the better solution would be to revamp paragon points...but that doesn't appear to be happening.


It should be on their to do list. But its Blizzard and things take a long,long,long time.
The core of Diablo should - as it has always been - the item hunt. It should not be trials, it should not be RNG, and it should not be paragon.

+1. It would be good if this is solved before season 4 start. Other way we'll see more players quitting...
I think cap the p leveling at 5000 so you have a life time goal.

2000 can be done in like 3 yrs if all you play is like 5--6 hr a day

so ya 5000 look's better to me.
sorry it posted 2 time's it was saying i did not post sorry
It's not only a cap whats required. The way paragon is farmed atm at PTR is a problem too: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/18301005976
Paragon is only mandatory if you want to be top 100 in any particular ladder.

And the simple fact is, if you're crying about it, you were not going to be top 100 anyway.
@Kixx: Farming paragon has nothing to do with skill dude. And it doesn't concern only the players who want to hit the leaderboards. It concerns all players, because with the current paragon design after some time the paragon level becomes more important than the item hunt. Plus any future mechanic such as PvP is doomed before released (botters smiling atm).
07/29/2015 09:30 AMPosted by Skelos
@Kixx: Farming paragon has nothing to do with skill dude. And it doesn't concern only the players who want to hit the leaderboards. It concerns all players, because with the current paragon design after some time the paragon level becomes more important than the item hunt. Plus any future mechanic such as PvP is doomed before released (botters smiling atm).


Farming gear has nothing to do with skill either. And yet you have to do it. Gaby was like plvl 1200 before he found a usable serpent wand.

People crying about paragon are whining about something they don't understand. You get paragon when you farm anyway.

Also you can just take any thought of PvP out of your posts in the future. We will never get PvP. Blizzard has moved all PvP aspects of their company to HotS and that other game that's coming.

Also, no one bots this game anymore. Barely anyone even plays it. The most shocking thing about the list of top paragon in the world is how few people are up there. It's actually pretty clear there is no botting problem.
07/01/2015 11:44 AMPosted by Boozor
Paragons were an old and dated reward system from vanilla and going into ROS should have been revised completely.


Wow. I am surprised nobody picked up on this. Paragon was revised completely for ROS. In patch 2.0 it became account wide, and you got to choose how to allocate stats instead of capping at 100 and offering magic find and whatever stats you get for leveling.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum