Seasonal Exclusive Items are Necessary

General Discussion
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Alright, I'll bite once, since unlike WildPants, you put a few sentences together.

08/22/2015 01:23 AMPosted by LocknLoad
OP has issues with self importance.
Ad hominem, what a great way to start you contribution to the topic.
I don't think I have ever seen, anyone post as much in a topic that
they started, as the OP.
Caballero, do you feel that you have to refute everything said on this topic,
or do you just enjoy dominating every conversation you're in?
Should I reply to this? I don't know man, some random mouth-breather might accuse me of posting too much.
Give it a rest, and let others talk.
Well, you got your turn, and all I can say is, you make failure look easy.
We know your stance on this, and frankly don't care about your opinion.
Is that the "royal" we?
08/22/2015 02:08 AMPosted by keybox
I came back from >1 year hiatus because I happened to install windows 10 and had to reinstall battle.net, saw the promotion for the exclusive stuff for HotS and the news article about the 2.3 patch incoming and decided to hop back in. Levelled a seasonal character to 70 paragon 90~ since Wednesday, I believe.

So I myself can say that I like exclusive items, unless what the OP intended were in game items essential to seasonal players, or something.

It does kind of suck that I've missed out on the previous two seasons, I didn't really know about them. Wondering if there'll be another chance to get the things I missed out on.

and how does the exclusivity enhance your gameplay experience?
08/22/2015 02:16 AMPosted by Caballero

08/22/2015 01:23 AMPosted by LocknLoad
OP has issues with self importance.
Ad hominem

nop, fact since you show that through this entire thread already

and how does the exclusivity enhance your gameplay experience?


I didn't say it did, I said it's what brought be back. What's your problem?
08/22/2015 02:49 AMPosted by keybox

and how does the exclusivity enhance your gameplay experience?


I didn't say it did, I said it's what brought be back. What's your problem?
the problem is that you are so full of yourself that you are defending exclusive items even though you dont even know why you like them

but lets change my question:
what part of the exclusivity exactly is it that brought oyu back to the game?
08/22/2015 02:59 AMPosted by WildPants
the problem is that you are so full of yourself that you are defending exclusive items even though you dont even know why you like them

but lets change my question:
what part of the exclusivity exactly is it that brought oyu back to the game?

Uhh... What? No, you either have terrible reading comprehension or you're purposefully trolling for the sake of trolling.

I said that I came back to playing Diablo 3 because I saw the promo for timed exclusive cosmetic items, and I'd been itching for something to play. You then somehow extrapolated from that post, which was not directed at you or anyone else, that I "don't know why" I like exclusive items, that I'm defending them and then proceed to tell me I'm full of myself. Literally, what?

The reason why people might like them is as simple as the same reason why people like anything, exclusiveness gives it value. If everyone had everything, nothing would be special. It's fairly common knowledge, and if you can't understand that concept then no one can really help you.

As far as whether exclusivity belongs in a video game, that's an entirely different matter. The answer, as far as I'm concerned, is yes. Timed exclusives? That's an obvious incentive developers impose to pull players like me back into games, and to reward players who are playing anyway.

Now, did I satisfy your apparent need for an explanation?

Also, thanks for the nice welcome back to the community, stay toxic.
so you want to feel special and look down on others instead of giving everyone the same gaming experience

egoism and elitist at its finest
08/22/2015 03:20 AMPosted by WildPants
so you want to feel special and look down on others instead of giving everyone the same gaming experience

egoism and elitist at its finest

If you want "the same gaming experience" as other people perhaps you shouldn't play games that rely heavily on RNG and Blizzard games that have a long history of offering timed promotions and stick to single player, on rails games that have no variance whatsoever. But even then, you would have to be as skilled as everyone else playing in order to achieve "the same gaming experience".

It's not elitism or egoism either, either you don't know what those words mean or you've failed to explain how taking advantage of obtaining free promotional items is somehow elitist or egotistic.
08/22/2015 03:17 AMPosted by keybox
The reason why people might like them is as simple as the same reason why people like anything, exclusiveness gives it value.

This is what I don't understand about people. You came back to play Diablo 3 because Seasons had different items than non-season? Really? You're actually more interested in having exclusive items than you are in playing the game. That to me is completely and utterly incomprehensible. Absolutely unfathomable.
08/22/2015 03:29 AMPosted by keybox
08/22/2015 03:20 AMPosted by WildPants
so you want to feel special and look down on others instead of giving everyone the same gaming experience

egoism and elitist at its finest

If you want "the same gaming experience" as other people perhaps you shouldn't play games that rely heavily on RNG and Blizzard games that have a long history of offering timed promotions and stick to single player, on rails games that have no variance whatsoever. But even then, you would have to be as skilled as everyone else playing in order to achieve "the same gaming experience".

It's not elitism or egoism either, either you don't know what those words mean or you've failed to explain how taking advantage of obtaining free promotional items is somehow elitist or egotistic.
see, even more elitism
08/22/2015 03:40 AMPosted by WildPants
08/22/2015 03:29 AMPosted by keybox
...
If you want "the same gaming experience" as other people perhaps you shouldn't play games that rely heavily on RNG and Blizzard games that have a long history of offering timed promotions and stick to single player, on rails games that have no variance whatsoever. But even then, you would have to be as skilled as everyone else playing in order to achieve "the same gaming experience".

It's not elitism or egoism either, either you don't know what those words mean or you've failed to explain how taking advantage of obtaining free promotional items is somehow elitist or egotistic.
see, even more elitism

Only on your part Wildpanties.
nop, i dont preach exclusivity
08/22/2015 03:35 AMPosted by Vresiberba
08/22/2015 03:17 AMPosted by keybox
The reason why people might like them is as simple as the same reason why people like anything, exclusiveness gives it value.

This is what I don't understand about people. You came back to play Diablo 3 because Seasons had different items than non-season? Really? You're actually more interested in having exclusive items than you are in playing the game. That to me is completely and utterly incomprehensible. Absolutely unfathomable.


What is it with you people and straw manning?
This is what I said:
08/22/2015 02:08 AMPosted by keybox
I came back from >1 year hiatus because I happened to install windows 10 and had to reinstall battle.net, saw the promotion for the exclusive stuff for HotS and the news article about the 2.3 patch incoming and decided to hop back in. Levelled a seasonal character to 70 paragon 90~ since Wednesday, I believe.

So I myself can say that I like exclusive items, unless what the OP intended were in game items essential to seasonal players, or something.

It does kind of suck that I've missed out on the previous two seasons, I didn't really know about them. Wondering if there'll be another chance to get the things I missed out on.


And if any of you would like to learn of a thing called "intrinsic value" you can read about it in many books and sources on the internet. You might actually open your minds and stop acting so snotty.
Edit: And I don't think it's any coincidence the two people whining have the highest post counts.
08/22/2015 03:35 AMPosted by Vresiberba
...
This is what I don't understand about people. You came back to play Diablo 3 because Seasons had different items than non-season? Really? You're actually more interested in having exclusive items than you are in playing the game. That to me is completely and utterly incomprehensible. Absolutely unfathomable.


What is it with you people and straw manning?

You're obviously unfamiliar with that term, then. I actually asked you a question.

You also said that you like the exclusive items, you argue for their existence and proceed to call them 'special'. It's then not exactly of a leap of faith to think you're only interested in the exclusivity itself.

Regarding the post count, yeah THAT is a strawman.
08/19/2015 11:28 AMPosted by Alucardrx
Seasons are not necessary.


Like food or water. Agreed. But then this whole game isn't necessary. And neither is the sheer stupidity, vitriol and obtuseness being thrown the OP's way.

The only fair and reasonable thing for Blizzard to do at this point is to make seasonal legendaries EXCLUSIVE to seasonal play.

Allowing these items to drop in NS post season is just a bad idea.

Blizzard's attempt at inclusiveness has backfired on them if the countless threads on this topic are any indication.

Give them one reasonable + inclusive INCH and they will scream and rant for a bloody MILE.

Blizzard needs to take a stand and just say "Stop whining and play seasons if you want the item that badly."
08/22/2015 02:08 AMPosted by keybox
I came back from >1 year hiatus because I happened to install windows 10 and had to reinstall battle.net, saw the promotion for the exclusive stuff for HotS and the news article about the 2.3 patch incoming and decided to hop back in. Levelled a seasonal character to 70 paragon 90~ since Wednesday, I believe.

So I myself can say that I like exclusive items, unless what the OP intended were in game items essential to seasonal players, or something.

It does kind of suck that I've missed out on the previous two seasons, I didn't really know about them. Wondering if there'll be another chance to get the things I missed out on.

Seems to me that keybox has been talking about the cosmetic exclusives this whole time, which no-one has a real problem with.
08/22/2015 04:53 AMPosted by Vresiberba
[quote]
You're obviously unfamiliar with that term, then. I actually asked you a question.

You also said that you like the exclusive items, you argue for their existence and proceed to call them 'special'. It's then not exactly of a leap of faith to think you're only interested in the exclusivity itself.

Regarding the post count, yeah THAT is a strawman.


I'm sorry, what? They're an incentive, yes, but you are supposing upon me the position that I only came back to Diablo 3 for them. Which is not what I said. You then proceeded to do the literary equivalent of flinging poo in order to inflate yourself and your position on the matter.

No, stating a fact that you are whining to me about something that I never even said and that you also have a very high post count, and coming to the conclusion that you may very well likely spend a lot of time whining on these forums is not a straw man. You should look into what a straw man is.

08/22/2015 05:21 AMPosted by Dogf

Seems to me that keybox has been talking about the cosmetic exclusives this whole time, which no-one has a real problem with.


I'm somewhat impressed someone other than Java is able to read in this thread. Kudos.
08/21/2015 09:06 PMPosted by Caballero
Shadout, no offense, but I didn't understand any of your post. Maybe I'm just tired.

If you want to encourage season participation you can do it in two reasonable ways:

Offer cosmetic items

Or/and

Offer rewards which are not exclusive:
XP bonus, MF bonus, gold bonus. Those would not be exclusive rewards, but merely "more of the same".
Thus it would be endlessly better design to offer those than actual gameplay content, like exclusive gear. Since those would not hurt NS gameplay.

I say it has to be reasonable "more of the same" because obviously at some point the bonus might be so high that it changed the gameplay. Like if there was a 2000% MF bonus in season, or a 10000% XP bonus.

The best way to do it would probably be something like this: Seasons have a 100% XP bonus.
However only 50% of the XP in seasons are transfered back to non-season at the end. This way Non-season is not hurt by the increased XP in seasons. For people who only play season, this balance adjustment wouldnt affect them anyway.
Seasonal Exclusive Items

Hm, in my opinion, D3 haven´t it.
I wait some Months and i can get it, thats not really "exclusive".
D2 ladder Items, upgrades and runewords, world event, thats exklusive.
multiple things things to say:
First and foremost it bothers me, from both sides of the argument, when someone says they don't care about someone else's opinion.
Arguments and trying to explain points of view is how intelligent humans beings brought society to advance as much as it did, and censorship of those are what delayed that advance.
If you can't read an argument you don't agree with and refute it, please don't participate in the discussion, baseless unjustified attacks on freedom of speech not only do not contribute to your argument, but make your side of the view seem wrong regardless of whether it is or not.
You are free to disagree and voice out why you think someone else is wrong, but stop trying to silence the other side, it's idiotic really, they will hate you and repay your unwillingness to understand them with unwillingness to understand you, this is called an exercise in futility, unless your whole objective is trolling. (I'm gonna use an example of my own crowd as i don't want to be biased, I'm sick of seeing caballero (have to) respond to personal attacks rather than arguments, it hurts the discussion and potentially makes him and others miss actual, real, compelling arguments)

Keybox,
you are talking about experience and relying on RNG.
Firstly there is a lot going around about how heavy RNG is in the game, and the dev's themselves have been aware of this as much has been done since ROS to aleviate RNG(without removing it altogether).
Now RNG is entirely different from EXCLUSIVITY.
An item that is not exclusive might even never drop for you, but you have a chance of getting it.
If the item is exclusive, you have no chance at it, regardless of how much you try.
Saying you deserve exclusive items for effort really is elitism (as you believe your efforts in a mode you supposedly enjoy are better than those of people playing a mode they enjoy), and a bad argument, as those items still come on an RNG basis, it isn't effort, it's luck.

Most people are absolutely fine with exclusive rewards that are cosmetic, but actual gameplay barred for months and then changed just as it is about to be unbarred is really a kick in the nuts.
For all effects you were denied the gameplay of the item, and it was re-released, dumbed down when you could get your hands on it (which has happened a lot and is a complaint of many).

Java4steve, how is one that is asking for everyone to have a chance at something at the same time being an elitist? If i recall correctly elitism is the belief/practice/view that a select few (the elites) should be privileged.

now, @Caballero,

Posted by matkosmat
Players come back for new content. When that content is exclusive to seasons, returning players don't have a real choice: it would simply be stupid to play NS where the loot and experience are same old, same old.

Agreed. But paragon 0 is also appealing, especially for those who have been gone a while.


Sorry for separating the quotes but quote was looking funky and i wanted to make sure it was perceptible.
And, sorry, but i don't see how that is relevant to the exclusivity argument.
People are not advocating for the extinction of seasons,
While i have said that if they aren't played without exclusives to back them up they aren't good design and should go, I do not advocate(or wish, really) for them to disappear. Do not twist my words, i think the concept of seasons by themselves is pretty good, and a positive experience to many, which is being twisted by its implementation.

08/22/2015 01:32 AMPosted by Caballero
This is a direct response to your statement:
The choice presented can be an unfair and/or unenjoyable one, which is what we're arguing.
The inference is that you find the choice unfair and/or unenjoyable because it costs you something to make; either you don't get to play your main characters, or you don't get a full loot table.

I replied that some people don't mind choosing one or the other, and so for them the choice is neither enjoyable nor unfair.

And I like that I even have a choice at all. Another way to say this would be that I appreciate having more options, not less.


Then make season mode with new items, season mode without new items, NS mode with new items, NS mode without new items. The reason those modes don't exist is because probably almost no one would play the no-new items versions.
Again, when you are talking choices, AH gave you choices, you either payed for the items or had unfathomably low chances of getting them on your own.
In that regard, AH was actually fairer than seasons are (I should not that in no way am I defending the return of that specific AH system, it was awful [with it's impact on the loot tables] and really had to go). yet AH was bad design and extremely hurtful to the game. and for some reason, people who were good at AH, flipping, or credit-card warriors didn't mind the AH at all. this is how the season crowd is coming across to the NS crowd with their defense of exclusiveness for things that actually impact the experience of the game.

Another thing said is that a little more than half if playing seasons,
With the current issue standing, it really isn't much of an indicator of viability of the game mode itself.
This argument stems from the argument of fear of seasons becoming desolate without items.
Persistence on these arguments really doesn't make them any more convincing to me personally.
two different points on this:

1 - Seasons won't be having any less items if they simply aren't exclusive, NS will have more.

2 - Again, there is all that worry about seasons being balanced and all, yet new items are introduced there first, how can someone not see how logically flawed this is?
The more items/mechanics there are, the harder it is to balance.
The fact items released in seasons are pretty much automatically "fixed" after seasons seem to imply they needed more balancing info, why release them there first? sorry, this seems like an elephant in the room to me.

Edit: sorry for the wall of text, plus typo fixes.
08/22/2015 04:53 AMPosted by Vresiberba
[quote]
You're obviously unfamiliar with that term, then. I actually asked you a question.

You also said that you like the exclusive items, you argue for their existence and proceed to call them 'special'. It's then not exactly of a leap of faith to think you're only interested in the exclusivity itself.

Regarding the post count, yeah THAT is a strawman.


I'm sorry, what? They're an incentive, yes, but you are supposing upon me the position that I only came back to Diablo 3 for them.

Yeah, uh, I STILL only asked you a question, man, one that you STILL have not answered. If you didn't come back solely because of the exclusive nature of the items, all you have to do is say so. I have not in any way, shape or form flung poo on you.

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