FROZEN is out of control

General Discussion
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09/15/2015 06:35 AMPosted by AxeLord
I always find it humorous when someone says "don't stand in it". Yeah, I'll just go stand around the corner and twiddle my thumbs, that should kill em !! And ya I know he said fire and this is not fire...

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/sssteve72/Diablo%203/Screenshot176_zpsc9taew7k.jpg
I was not thinking about Plagued except as it relates to the Elites casting it after you in an unbroken chain after death, while you are still in the ethereal state.

But that screenshot elevates Plagued in my mind to the same level as Frozen, and if Frozen did the same damage as Plagued, a third of the problem might be solved, but it does 3 times the damage.

The second part of the problem is the ridiculous ability of Elites and Minions to spam these affixes without regard to what any other monster on the screen is doing.

The third part of the problem is that Frozen, as one responder mentioned, has 3 damage components to it: the damage from the "apron" buildup, the damage from the Frozen explosion, and the damage you get when you are frozen and absorbing damage from other monsters.

Couple these things with the constant winding, dead-end, cave and corridor maps you get in GRifts, and it makes for a gaming experience that is not only un-fun, but it feels downright unfair - as if the devs are sitting in their little cubicles laughing and giving us the finger.
Your complaint implies multiple things happening all at once:

1. You are in a small area
2. Your cooldown or immunity skill is not available
3. You are running a build that does not have enough toughness to deal with it or the GR is so high the toughness level is unattainable
4. You are running a build that doesn't have room for an immunity effect item
5. A frozen elite or champion has actually spawned
6. Teammates don't have skills to heal or provide immunity, or no teammates
7. You don't have a self-res passive equipped or its on cooldown

Sorry you had those things going against you.

Sorry your 3 consecutive vaults didn't cut it. Maybe vault isn't the all purpose defensive skill you're looking for.

I watched a few quick videos of elites in 2.3, and yeah they cast frozen quite often but same with arcane sentries and other stuff too. Champion packs will do them more often but the elite packs seem to do stronger ones. Seems normal.

I think a L2P is in order here.
There is a basis for this discussion that I think some might be confused or not aware of (though it might be obvious).

1) The damage dealt by affixes vary as GR lvl increase. This discussion is specifically referring to when damage dealt is over a particular threshold for most players, what is happening to some affixes like frozen that make it skew from the linear graph if you will.

2) That being said, please stop suggesting elemental immunity amulets or items. This is generally only viable to bring to (as of this patch 2.3) closer to GR60 (if that) before the need for Hellfire Amulet. At least this is true for most builds, there are always exceptions but we can all agree, if you had a fifth passive with 100% CD 10% CC 20% elemental and a socket, you'd rather use that over Mara's say :). This means that the damage dealt by affixes is not yet skewed to the point where most classes cannot survive.

3) Lastly, let us agree to disagree sometimes and not compare apples with oranges so to speak. I am talking about comparing Heal Monks with say Demon Hunters. Yes they are completely different in terms of play, gearing, and surviveability. Not to say, don't comment but please have a basis such as, "Frozen isn't a problem for me and I am a Heal Monk who can upkeep permanent Epiphany Desert Shroud."

Please don't burn me with your diabolical flames of hell haha :P. I am not trying to tell you, yes you what to do, just trying to quell some unproductive arguments.
Fearr the argument for immunity amulet goes like this:

I drive down the same street every day. I know there is construction on some days, but I MUST always default to the quickest way to my destination as possible. (no amulet)

I know if I take a side route (amulet), it will be slower, I'll get to where I need to go, but I might be late. Being late is a disaster and a complete waste of time.

I can't take the side route once I'm already in the construction zone (met frozen elite mob).

I think there are at least three types of people:

Type A: I can only take the side route when it is just as quick as the other route. (Doesn't matter in my build)
Type B: I can take the side route every day because it doesn't bother me that much, it bothers me much more when I get stuck (Casual player will wear all the time)
Type C: I can't ever take the side route because it's not efficient and the cons outweigh the pros. I'll deal with the construction when it happens. (MIN/MAX player will never wear because they need to MAX dps)
I have a hardcore multishot demon hunter and I've never had a problem with this. Cleared through GR45 on it and could probably go higher with a better weapon and quiver. Have you tried taking smokescreen, that one ability demon hunters have that immunes anything and everything? Sitting at about 20m toughness and I use leech, everything seems fine to me.

Also, if you're one of those min/max players that want to go max damage and won't take defensive skills, then you shouldn't be whining here because you already realize you're basically fishing for a rift that doesn't have deadly mobs.
It's all wonderful to talk about grifts, but it misses the point. Not even in grifts, just running bounties or farming for keywardens, every single one of the characters I play regularly can easily handle everything in T5 *except* frozen. Frozen feels the same at T3 as everything else does at T5. This means that frozen is not in proportion with the rest of the affixes regardless of game mode.

I tried using one of my barbs pushed up to T6 to see if I could do it on a bounty run. It was above the difficulty that I could breeze through, but I was grinding and making my way through it because I wanted to see if I could meet the challenge. I got popped by an exploding ice crystal I didn't see because I had just dropped avalanche. I respawned at my corpse and instantly the hall was covered in ice crystals again. I tried to run out of it before my "ghost" became corporeal, but could not get far enough away. Another insta-pop. So I respawned at corpse and it did the same thing *again*. I had to respawn in town and portal back to the zone. Even then, I dropped the difficulty in order to win the fight.

I don't have the ice climbers boots so that's not an option. Still, I understand that in theory I could get that. Here's the problem with that "solution." My barb could survive and grind out with *everything else* that was being thrown in T6. The only protection I was using was against poison, since it's all I got in the cube. Still, *nothing else was going to kill me.* Magma pool? No problem, side step. Lasers? No problem, move around (the only time it was dicey was when I got walled in and only managed to escape an instant before two lasers met me, and even then if it hits me I have enough time to escape before too much health is drained if I'm not stuck with jail or something else).

But ice crystals? Better have funeral arrangements.

Even if the boots save me from frozen, the fact remains that I didn't need any special immunity to be "saved" from any of the other affixes. (Obviously, plagued might be a different story since I was immune to it so didn't experience it in that run.) I could use skill and/or tank part of the damage and live. But Frozen was carpet bombed and killed me back to back to back without even the opportunity to escape. This is why I can say the affix is not in balance.

Again, it has nothing to do with grifts. Frozen, relative to every other affix at its level, just plain hits harder, and the spam effect is much more dangerous over all, even when you're playing bounties or the story. It's just way OP compared to everything else.
09/15/2015 05:33 PMPosted by Worldslayer
I think there are at least three types of people:


You are absolutely right. You and I are talking about the same thing, I'm not sure I get the focus of your reply?

To reiterate, I am stating that the premise for our discussion is of your "Type C" only. This is why suggesting them is rather pointless as 90% of the builds at that "quickest road" (highest GR) can't be using them.
09/15/2015 06:10 PMPosted by CalvinDude
Again, it has nothing to do with grifts. Frozen, relative to every other affix at its level, just plain hits harder, and the spam effect is much more dangerous over all, even when you're playing bounties or the story. It's just way OP compared to everything else.


Exactly, your experience is all too common for everyone. I think some just don't notice it.
09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
I think a L2P is in order here.
I think here's a guy who needs to try to play something besides a Flavor-of-the-Month Barb, and then get back to me.
09/07/2015 12:53 PMPosted by Tubbylumpkin
"Let it go."


I often say lol, but it's very infrequent I actually lol.

You, sir(or mam), have made me lol

But on topic... yes, Frozen right now is DRAMATICALLY stronger than every other affix. It does more damage than molten, Plague, Poison Enchant, or desecrator AND has an explosion at the end.
09/15/2015 06:10 PMPosted by CalvinDude
Frozen, relative to every other affix at its level, just plain hits harder, and the spam effect is much more dangerous over all, even when you're playing bounties or the story. It's just way OP compared to everything else.
And as Raymond Reddington would say, "There you have it."
09/15/2015 06:52 PMPosted by Seluhir
09/07/2015 12:53 PMPosted by Tubbylumpkin
"Let it go."


I often say lol, but it's very infrequent I actually lol.

You, sir(or mam), have made me lol
It's kind of funny that we have a dual topic here:

Frozen, the Elite affix in Diablo III

Frozen, the Disney animated movie that features the son, Let It Go*

*Frozen won two Academy Awards for Best Animated Feature and Best Original Song ("Let It Go"), the Golden Globe Award for Best Animated Feature Film, the BAFTA Award for Best Animated Film, five Annie Awards (including Best Animated Feature), two Grammy Awards for Best Compilation Soundtrack for Visual Media and Best Song Written for Visual Media ("Let It Go"), and two Critics' Choice Movie Awards for Best Animated Feature and Best Original Song ("Let It Go").
09/15/2015 06:57 PMPosted by OldPro
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I often say lol, but it's very infrequent I actually lol.

You, sir(or mam), have made me lol
It's kind of funny that we have a dual topic here:

Frozen, the Elite affix in Diablo III

Frozen, the Disney animated movie that features the son, Let It Go*

*Frozen won two Academy Awards for Best Animated Feature and Best Original Song ("Let It Go"), the Golden Globe Award for Best Animated Feature Film, the BAFTA Award for Best Animated Film, five Annie Awards (including Best Animated Feature), two Grammy Awards for Best Compilation Soundtrack for Visual Media and Best Song Written for Visual Media ("Let It Go"), and two Critics' Choice Movie Awards for Best Animated Feature and Best Original Song ("Let It Go").


I believe you mean "Frozen, the feature length animated music video for the song Let it Go
^^ LMAO
09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
1. You are in a small area


Most GR are.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
2. Your cooldown or immunity skill is not available


Most ranged don't have any.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
3. You are running a build that does not have enough toughness to deal with it or the GR is so high the toughness level is unattainable


Usually the latter.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
4. You are running a build that doesn't have room for an immunity effect item


To beat the timer, that is usually the case.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
5. A frozen elite or champion has actually spawned


I don't think I've ever seen a GR where one or two haven't, personally.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
6. Teammates don't have skills to heal or provide immunity, or no teammates


Usually true.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
7. You don't have a self-res passive equipped or its on cooldown


Usually on CD.

09/15/2015 05:12 PMPosted by Worldslayer
I think a L2P is in order here.


Cute.

09/15/2015 05:33 PMPosted by Worldslayer
Type C: I can't ever take the side route because it's not efficient and the cons outweigh the pros. I'll deal with the construction when it happens. (MIN/MAX player will never wear because they need to MAX dps)


Or how about the simple mathematics of the fact that if you need that 10-20% damage from passive from a Hellfire to clear a GR, you will 100% fail every instance of that GR without the amulet.

09/15/2015 05:40 PMPosted by Deathshiver
I have a hardcore multishot demon hunter and I've never had a problem with this. Cleared through GR45 on it


GR45 is garbage since they nerfed the damage in the last patch. In S1 up to 35 was the "easy zone" for people wearing set items. Currently that "easy zone" extends to 55 thanks to the cube and powercreep of sets, and the damage nerfs. Hell, I'm a scrub, and my personal progression is 63 (Coincidentally because I'm missing damage on my amulet, among other details).

Let me put it to you this way. Once you're at a GR level high enough where you're walking down a hallway, and your cheat death passive just instantly goes off because elites in another room drop frozen on you, THEN you'll understand the severity of the situation.
09/15/2015 07:21 PMPosted by Logos
GR45 is garbage since they nerfed the damage in the last patch. In S1 up to 35 was the "easy zone" for people wearing set items. Currently that "easy zone" extends to 55 thanks to the cube and powercreep of sets, and the damage nerfs. Hell, I'm a scrub, and my personal progression is 63 (Coincidentally because I'm missing damage on my amulet, among other details).

Let me put it to you this way. Once you're at a GR level high enough where you're walking down a hallway, and your cheat death passive just instantly goes off because elites in another room drop frozen on you, THEN you'll understand the severity of the situation.


I only said I had cleared 45 on my demon hunter, that doesn't mean I haven't gone higher. If your cheat death passive is proccing like that, you're either not getting enough toughness or you're going higher than your gear is meant to go. Either one is a perfectly fair situation for the damage you're taking. There's a very real reason you guys are dying so quickly and it's not the frozen affix. It might need some tuning, but it's not the primary issue.

On a side note, if you're going to start referring to 70+ grifts, just don't. There's always going to be a point where the difficulty just does too much damage and you people will whine about it all the same. If they nerf it here, you will just whine that you can't do 80+ and so on.
09/15/2015 07:37 PMPosted by Deathshiver
If your cheat death passive is proccing like that, you're either not getting enough toughness or you're going higher than your gear is meant to go.


Everyone goes higher than their gear is meant to go. That's the entire point! But let me ask you this.

Should Frozen be the determining factor, or should the rest of the GR be the determining factor?

Because right now, people "ceiling'd" by Frozen just fish around it, making it not a proper ceiling, just an annoyance. Hence the thread. If frozen were in line with other affixes in the way its mechanics behave, there'd be no point to this conversation.

09/15/2015 07:37 PMPosted by Deathshiver
On a side note, if you're going to start referring to 70+ grifts, just don't. There's always going to be a point where the difficulty just does too much damage and you people will whine about it all the same. If they nerf it here, you will just whine that you can't do 80+ and so on.


The difficulty? Or certain Affixes in particular? Congrats on catching up to the discussion at hand.
09/15/2015 07:37 PMPosted by Deathshiver
There's always going to be a point where the difficulty just does too much damage and you people will whine about it all the same.


This discussion is to help the dev team determine how to allow us to progress further as difficulties scale ever more in (most prominently) GR. As of right now, at the limit end of 70+ (lol 60+ for me), some affixes begin to one shot me. Whereas a GR lvl or two below that limit, I am still just fine. Like I said, it's at this point the data is beginning to skew.

There will always be a balance in stacking effective toughness to help survive at such high damage levels. The point of the discussion is to figure out how can players stack the "right amount" and still progress 5 more GR levels. In that regard, frozen (and other things I've tried to sum up) are features that need a closer look. There is a difference between whining and discussing.

Haha, I'd very much like to whine if it worked but I'm still stuck way below the top end limit currently :P
09/15/2015 07:37 PMPosted by Deathshiver
There's always going to be a point where the difficulty just does too much damage and you people will whine about it all the same.
That's called a "limit," and everybody finds it for every character they have.

Some players complain about it, true, "I can't get any higher than 63 because of this or that," but in many of these cases, those players are complaining about the general environment at their limit, and not a single affix. Often, they don't even have an argument about any particular thing; they are just complaining they can't reach the next higher digit.

Silly, really.

The entire point of this (amended) topic is that both Frozen and Arcane Sentry get cast - spammed - way too often, and in the case of Frozen, at any given difficulty level, it feels like it is an affix that belongs at a difficulty 2-4 levels higher.
This thread is a joke.

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