5 of each bounty mat and 50 souls is way too much

General Discussion
I think the costs are fine. If you were guaranteed it to be Ancient it would make the item hunting and mat farming a very short, nearly pointless thing to add to the game as everyone would have all ancient gear and no reason to hunt for gear or materials anymore, which would just lead back to some of hte original complaints of people having nothing to chase after.

You got that legendary you wanted? great! Now to try to work it up to something truly wonderful and farm up those mats and play the game and have fun slaughtering mass hordes of demons.
09/04/2015 09:35 AMPosted by Chorro
09/04/2015 07:28 AMPosted by Orrion
The people disagreeing are insane. You guys have been dealing with a horrid game mechanic for so long that you get a slightly less horrible mechanic and are grateful for it. Stop being fools. The cost here is stupid.

The RNG is bad enough here that rerolling anything for a GOOD version of itself is going to take forever unless you get extremely lucky, which is basically how it was before. Plus, if you are after doing that you really need to find 2 of everything. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking my good normal Furnace in there because it'll likely reroll worse than it is, and then I'm screwed. Have to wait until I have a second one so I have something to use. They could have avoided that if they had made the reforge option work like the Mystic, but of course they didn't. No, gotta toss the dice in the dark.

The point here is that the mechanics are good only in comparison to the previous crap we were all buried under. That doesn't mean the new mechanics are great or even okay. They're still crap - it just smells a little less.


all ARPGs are based on RNG, nothing new.

could you please tell me on average how many jah, ber, zod runes people found during at least 5 years of game play in diablo 2?

i can count with just 1 hand, i've found a grand total of 2 jah runes, 4 ber runes and zero zod runes in over 10 years of play.

in the later patches all 3 runes were essential for end game, jah and ber for enigma, zod for breath of the dying.

yet no one really complained about drop rates back then.

if you don't like the game, go play something else.


No game has the amount of or dependence on RNG that D3 does. It's pervasive. Every game mechanic has it. Every revised or updated mechanic includes it. Often there are multiple layers of it, or it is stacked against the player (see: Mystic and rolling Vitality).

It wouldn't matter quite as much if you didn't need gear to do stuff. You didn't need those Zod runes to do even the most difficult content in D2. In D3 you better have that set and that rare Ancient weapon, or you're going nowhere fast.

The reason nobody complained about it in D2 was because if you wanted a Hammerdin, you made a Hammerdin. If people want a Hammerdin here, they don't make a Hammerdin. They make a generic Crusader and hunt down the set and 3 other required (more, really, but 3 having to do Blessed Hammer) legendary items, and then play a Hammerdin. It's entirely likely they never even put the skill on the skill bar before finding all 9.

I never said I didn't like the game. If I truly didn't, I wouldn't play. But that doesn't mean there aren't bad things about it, and it certainly doesn't preclude me from posting my opinion and pushing for what I think would make it better.
I think 30 forgotten souls would be a happy medium. 50 is a bit high. Then by disenchanting all the legionaries you probably aren't using out of those caches you have a good chance of having about a third of the souls by the time you complete the bounty.
09/04/2015 07:28 AMPosted by Orrion
The people disagreeing are insane. You guys have been dealing with a horrid game mechanic for so long that you get a slightly less horrible mechanic and are grateful for it. Stop being fools. The cost here is stupid.

The RNG is bad enough here that rerolling anything for a GOOD version of itself is going to take forever unless you get extremely lucky, which is basically how it was before. Plus, if you are after doing that you really need to find 2 of everything. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking my good normal Furnace in there because it'll likely reroll worse than it is, and then I'm screwed. Have to wait until I have a second one so I have something to use. They could have avoided that if they had made the reforge option work like the Mystic, but of course they didn't. No, gotta toss the dice in the dark.

The point here is that the mechanics are good only in comparison to the previous crap we were all buried under. That doesn't mean the new mechanics are great or even okay. They're still crap - it just smells a little less.


Sorry but you are wrong, I am honestly surprised the cube was allowed to go live in its current condition, its massively OP. Before 2.3 I was a scrub. Within 2 days of the Cube, my Wizard has improved 10,000% .

from 2.0 - 2.2 Kadala didn't give me .001% of what the cube gives me today.

To complain about this leaves me bewildered. It's funny that you even complain about RNG, because if you think the cube is expensive then RNG must have been pretty damn good to you in the past since you are not benefitting from the cube the way that I did.

First day I rolled an Anceint Wand of Woh. The super rare, isn't super rare anymore, just upgrade rare and get another if you cant afford to reroll legendary. That's for the players club 1000+ paragon people.
08/28/2015 03:52 AMPosted by Chaoxytal
The reforge cost of 5 of each mat and a whopping 50 forgotten souls is ridiculous. For those prices I better be guaranteed an ancient, considering you can still roll garbage damage values and crap stats in general.


I would be curious about the internal discussion among devs regarding the idea of increasing the costs to 50 of each mat and 500 forgotten souls but guarantee an ancient, just to reduce the variance.
I KNEW IT.

I $%#($$&)! KNEW IT.

Someone would be complaining that the costs aren't too high.

The cube already makes gearing a piece of cake, stop asking for more gimmies because the game will become even more mindless than it already is.
The recipe is the most powerful one in the game. Why should it not be expensive? You can now target the one specific ancient piece you are missing.

Besides, it isn't that expensive if you really try and farm mats for it.
It takes me and my team about 4 hours to run enough bounties, T7 rifts and some GRs for all materials required for 10 rerolls, which on average is what you need to get one ancient.
09/04/2015 10:46 PMPosted by Savi
The recipe is the most powerful one in the game. Why should it not be expensive? You can now target the one specific ancient piece you are missing.

Besides, it isn't that expensive if you really try and farm mats for it.
It takes me and my team about 4 hours to run enough bounties, T7 rifts and some GRs for all materials required for 10 rerolls, which on average is what you need to get one ancient.


You're acting as if people can't get screwed and roll like 25 times before they seen an Ancient item. Perhaps more importantly, though, you're acting as if the item rolls Ancient and you're good to go. Ancient items can and do roll just as terribly as anything else. We all know that. I've scrapped a lot of Ancient set items and even some good weapons just since the patch.

It also took me over 80 rolls to get a usable Ancient Mountain of the Light. If I remember correctly, it was over 30 before they even rolled Ancient at all. When I think of how long it'll take to get a usable Ancient immunity amulet or Hellfire, I shudder. Xepherian and Cameo, at least, both roll guaranteed attack speed, which means it's got to roll a socket and crit damage and crit chance and be Ancient. Ouch.

Is that a better chance than a randomly dropped immunity will roll that well? Sure - but that's my point. The Cube system is better, but it's a far cry from what I would call good. At this point I have pretty much resigned myself to the developers saturating any new systems with RNG, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or act like this is a gigantic step forward for Diablokind.
08/28/2015 04:58 AMPosted by aluminatae
I got 15,000 forgotten souls on my main account. Back when ah was around, I bought 200,000 brimstones and later sold 180,000 for a nice profit. I kept 15,000 brimstones all this time and lo and behold, 2.3 turned them all into forgotten souls.


niiiiice. You had the intuition to hold onto those brimstones, grats.
I really wish I had kept them now. :/
After spending 3 hours straight rerolling items with this recipe on console, I can say it has several glaring issues.

1h weapons more greatly penalized than 2h weapons (Relevant, since the primary thing I can see this used for is just trying to upgrade a weapon to ancient).

Many items roll with guaranteed mainstat. As paragon levels increase, mainstat is inefficient on more and more pieces of gear, making the number of rolls needed to get better stats than any garbage you'd find in a GRift is insanely high due to things stacked against you.

The UI/animation for rerolling the item is super tedious when needing to make lots of rerolls.

People that do Rifts/Grifts get lots of souls, bounty mats keep this from being an efficient sink for those souls.

People that like to do bounties get less souls and will have a hard time with the soul cost.

Due to the above it's basically more efficient to just use the upgrade to legendary recipe, because you can get the mats from strictly doing what you want to do in the game.

QOL change that might help the reroll leg feature: List what stats you want (that the item is able to roll) and hit a button. The game will continuously roll the item for you (without wasting your time showing you the animation over and over again) until it either finds what you were looking for, or you run out of mats. Might have saved me 2 hours of tedium.

Hell, this QoL could work for the mystic too. Just pick the stat you want to reroll, pick the stat you're looking for (and even the quantity at the mystic) and have it reroll until you get it, or you run out of mats. Would be so nice.
09/04/2015 11:09 PMPosted by Orrion
When I think of how long it'll take to get a usable Ancient immunity amulet or Hellfire, I shudder.


For the sake of your sanity, don't. Last night was amulet night. Was rerolling a flavor of time. Took me about 2.5 hours of straight hitting the A button just for that one item to roll decently. I don't even want to think about Cameo. This isn't even counting the farming time for the mats (zero for me, because reasons) but for you? Your time would be better spent doing almost anything else.
Yes! Agree. This forces players to use bot.. Please reduce amount of mats required to reforge. I think 1 bounty mats of each and 5 death breaths would be more reasonable.
4 hours for only 10 rerolls? No one will have a life playing this game then. No wonder botters are everywhere.
Not everyone has a couple of hours to waste
MINUS 50 DKP thread necromancy!

However, still relevant so... the 5 bounties mats isn't too bad, considering you get 10 from a T10 bounty game. The 50 soul shards is still really high imo though. That's like 10+ rifts of sharding everything.
The 5 mats are ok, the forgotten souls are not.
During the weekend I farm about 1.2k souls for reforging.
I nearly faint literally until my wife saw how pale my lips were.
That is perhaps the only function from Kanai Cube that I rarely use. I could even count in one hand how many times I've used that feature. And you know what the best part of it is? 10% chance for non-Ancient to roll as Ancient. Oh wait, that isn't the best part: YOUR ALREADY ANCIENT ITEM CAN AND WILL REROLL TO NON ANCIENT.

Yeah, that is one fantastic feature of Kanai's Cube.
05/15/2016 11:57 PMPosted by seektravota
Yes! Agree. This forces players to use bot.. Please reduce amount of mats required to reforge. I think 1 bounty mats of each and 5 death breaths would be more reasonable.


Give me a break - this doesn't 'force' anyone to bot unless they are cheaters in the first place.
Could we at least get rid of the bonus act thing, and just have every cache give 10 mats for the respective act? I just hate it when people you play with turn in an act early. Sometimes people do it on purpose because they just want the RORG and turn in act 1 and leave game, by the way this wasn't in a public game, this was private game I made and invited people from season bounties. Some people are just jerks...
08/28/2015 11:51 AMPosted by Chaoxytal
WTF!

I expected 100% unanimous agreement when I posted this. How can you defend the costs!?

The way you're fighting against positive change I'd think you worked for Blizz...


Are you really this dumb to think that human beings, being human, can ever come to a true unanimous agreement on anything?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum