R6 flying dragon vs shenlong spirit

Monk
after seeing some guides about using SS with R6 instead of FD (and thinking about that build myself back in 2.2, when i saw the 2.3 changes on SS) i decided to give the build a try.

now, i have an ancient FD, and only one of the 2 claws is ancient. for the test purposes im using restraint and focus bonus, sanctuary and cubed furnace (50% elite damage), cubed RotRG and leoric crown. my paragon level is on early 400, my crit damage with FD is 400 something and i have 9300 dex. Crit damage with SS is 500 something and i have 9600 dex. im wearing cindercoat and R5, and i have 36% increased fire damage. passives are mythic rhythm, beacon of ytar, seize the initiative and harmony.

using FD, restraint and focus normal mobs i do around 1bill damage (sometimes 900m, sometimes 1.2bill),

using SS, restraint and focus on normal mobs i do around 500m. damage goes up to 1bill only when i have the SS extra damage. if both my SS were ancient (not just one) i believe i could do as much damage as my FD, because of the extra dex + crit damage, however this takes extra effort in having to find an extra ancient weapon with good stats + the extra effort keeping the damage bonus up.

so basically using DS with SS is not worth it unless u can keep the damage buff up, since u can do more damage per hit with FD for less effort, plus u can spam DS more.

back in 2.2 i experimented a bit with mythic rhythm and other damage passives, although the damage boost was nice, i could do more dps by spamming dashing strike then going back to full spirit (took about 2 seconds) then spamming again than doing 1,2,3 dash 1,2,3 dash.
i disregarded the use of mythic rhythm and other damage passives(mostly because id lose other important passives). i could do 3 dashing strikes without cindercoat, and 5 DS with cindercoat (didnt have a full RCR build)

now in 2.3 i experimented again with mythic rythm, and using FD, sanctuary, restraint and focus and cubed the furnace, the highest damage i did was 2.9bill per dashing strike (after killing several elites and checking the damage)

using the same setup with SS and the damage bonus from full spirit, i only got to do 2.6bill per ds as highest damage (after several elite kills). and i would struggle to not let my spirit go down to 0. i could only do 2 dashing strikes before i had to spend 3-4 of seconds auto attacking to get my spirit up again, resulting in the loss of dps. (no cubed flying dragon)

i still think mythic rhythm is not worth using with flying dragon, however, seeing how much extra effort i needed with SS to keep the buff up, maybe doing a 1,2,3 dash, 1,2,3 dash will be worth for using mythic rhythm and keeping the SS buff up without running out of spirit.

now, most of these dont matter much against normal mobs, since they die in 1-2 DS. anyways..and most elites die in about 1-3 seconds. the big difference would be when fighting a greater rift guardian (or just high GR where one cant 1 shot trash mobs or elites)

to keep the SS buff against the rift guardian, id need to use a cubed FD, but then id lose the furnace extra damage and id still have problems with spamming DS (wearing cindercoat, if i use DS 3 times after getting the SS extra bonus, my spirit would be depleted). maybe having more RCR and using exalted soul would be a solution.

i still think using SS requires too much extra effort to do about the same damage/dps as a FD. maybe using a Rainment + depth diggers hybrid to boost the spirit gen damage in between dashing strikes would be a good idea, and doing 1,2,3 dash with mythic rhythm could match the DPS of R6 or R5 + cindercoat + FD with cubed furnace DS spam in a long 1-3 mins fight against the grater rift guardian

so my questions are:

why people like to use SS set for Dashing strike build with R5-R6, if it requires extra effort to achieve the same damage than simply using FD.

is there a way to combine Rainment and shenlong spirit sets in a more effective way (for dashing strike build, not auto attack build), where using SS set would require less effort to maintain the damage buff and spam DS?

what im i missing?

EDIT: non related, has any1 tried using 1,2,3 seven sided strike with uliana set up and mythic rhythm?:O
You are just wasting your effort trying to combine them if you ask me. It was recommended in PTR because shenlongs gave 300% damage bonus at full spirit instead of the 100% it is now. You can hit for more with your generator than you can with dashing strike using shenlongs now. My average crit with shenlongs right now is about 1.8 bil and that is with a pretty consistent 4+ attack speed. The top R6 builds right now use flying dragon with furnace cubed. R6 requires near perfect rolls while a shenlongs generator build only requires good rolls on gear to be effective in the upper 50's and lower 60's.

I should also mention that shenlongs defeats the whole purpose of the fire dash build which is to dash as much as possible to make great use of the zodiac ring which in turn allows you to use very little cdr on gear.
yeah im trying to get the cdr ring, but been unlucky (: same with the melee resist belt :D

i was only wondering if there was a good way to combine them, since i noticed i can do more damage with just flying dragon + cubed furnace than using shenlong spirit (and for less effort) and i seen ppl using them both.

and woah didnt know a spirit gen build could do that much damage. whats ur dexterity?

im making a spirit gen and uli build too, just for fun..because i really enjoy the dashing strike build..but if ss build is doing almost twice as much damage as ds i might switch. it also requires less effort, just auto attack and thats it xD but i hope is not as boring as ww barb =_=
09/02/2015 08:01 PMPosted by Depraved

is there a way to combine Rainment and shenlong spirit sets in a more effective way (for dashing strike build, not auto attack build), where using SS set would require less effort to maintain the damage buff and spam DS?


Jup, the best build atm is R6 rcr build with shenlongs. You'll want to spam your generator and somehow ;) when holding your DS switch between generator/DS for optimal results.
09/02/2015 08:01 PMPosted by Depraved
why people like to use SS set for Dashing strike build with R5-R6, if it requires extra effort to achieve the same damage than simply using FD.

is there a way to combine Rainment and shenlong spirit sets in a more effective way (for dashing strike build, not auto attack build), where using SS set would require less effort to maintain the damage buff and spam DS?


People use it because it actually DOES have the potential to do more damage. It's much harder to use and very frustrating when you misclick, but the damage surpasses FD with a few notes:

FD must be cubed and on SS. When it procs, even with the drain you have unlimited spirit to dash almost nonstop for the duration.

Your cubed jewelry must be Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac. With it you can keep the Breath of Heaven spirit buff, Inner sanctuary damage buff, and Epiphany 50% DR up 100% of the time.

Therefore because you need the Zodiac ring, you can no longer use Cindercoat; you must cube it.

These three factors make it so you can constantly have the 100% SS buff and never run out of spirit. The reason it will surpass the FD then is because if you use it right, you have an almost perma-channeling shrine. Even with the drain, you should be dashing more with SS than FD. If you are using the new Stricken gem, this means more stacks of damage (which will cause you to catch up to the Furnace elite damage very fast.)

Other notes:

If you find it hard to keep the buff and spirit up because mobs are dying too quickly, you're not pushing high enough. This build is specifically for GRifting higher than FD is able to. For lower rifts, use FD to maintain high damage and better spirit control otherwise you will run out of dashes and be helpless to attack (one of the risks of pushing SS for max dmg). For higher rifts, SS should beat out FD every time with a bit of practice.

Also, having RCR on gloves, rings, weapons, etc. is important because it makes Dashing strike cost a lot less, making it easier to keep SS at full. 18% from weapons, 30% from Cinder, 16% from rings, 8% gloves, shoulders, and amulet (if needed).

(Check out my seasonal monk in my profile. It's not perfect (I need to replace Bane of the Powerful with a fully upgraded Taeguk) but I was carrying Grift 50+ with 4 people. Haven't had time to test solo rift, but I'm guessing I could easily push 55-60 with the right skill and practice)

TL;DR - If you want competitive stats, go with SS. With the right setup it will push harder than FD. If you want an easier, less slamming your keyboard and mouse for dying because of missed cooldowns, go with FD. It is much easier to keep spirit up consistently while still doing the great R6 damage we love.

Edit: Note about paragon - Maxing RCR and Attack speed first helps with spirit generation.
thx for the tips (:

i finally got zodiac ring yesterday and string of ears and i could push past gr 45 (in 2.3 i couldnt go above 45 mostly because 1 shots and death timers, usually finished the rift in 15:30-16:00)
now i got to 50 in a single try without fails but havent tried to push more.

t10 also feels like a breeze as well

without attack speed from paragon i get 4.5 attacks per second with SS and only 3.7 with fd, but i get to use furnace ;3. takes about 1 second to go back to full spirit, without having to alternate between attacks and dash to keep the buff up.

i noticed i was able to keep my spirit up longer yesterday when i cubed FD and used ss with that crazy attack speed...but then i feel like im doing less damage per dashing strike D:

i noticed some of my crits yersterday hit for 2 bill on some elites with FD, but with ss im still doing around 1 bill only when the buff procs. been trying to get RCR in gears for a while but no luck, my shoulders r doomed :D

i guess ill wait until i get the ancient SS im missing and try using it again.

oh also im non seasonal so no bane of the stricken D: im using swiftness, trapped and esoteric (i swap it for taeguk when i farm, then esoteric when i push, so i can survive)
09/03/2015 04:58 PMPosted by Depraved
i noticed some of my crits yersterday hit for 2 bill on some elites with FD, but with ss im still doing around 1 bill only when the buff procs. been trying to get RCR in gears for a while but no luck, my shoulders r doomed :D


Not sure why that is. I'm guessing your SS are both still non-ancient while your FD is ancient? I found my first ancient SS yesterday and I was able to hit 2 billion crits every once in a while. With double ancient I should be able to hit between 2-3 billion crits.

Have you watched Dunkelvieh's Video about R6 in 2.3 on Youtube? He's non-seasonal so he has pretty top gear, but he seemed to be clearing grift 66 pretty fine.

Edit: Essentially you want this http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Vee-2936/hero/61166376
With ancient gear, this Monk leads the boards at Grift 70, R6 SS. Dunkelvieh is #14 at Grift 66.
Question on SS. Does the 1.5% bonus per spirit stay in effect when you cap and start the 100% damage boost or does the 100% boost override the old bonus until you drain to zero and start over?
The 1.5% per spirit remains. That's why Generator Build can do so much damage. 300 Spirit Pool X 1.5 = 450% increased damage + 100% damage buff.

But note that it only applies to generators and would not affect the R6 build very much (although it does significant damage even in Grift 50 or so).
I have a decent SS + R6 set on my monk (lightningfist). I will give it a whirl today and see how it does.
09/04/2015 08:22 AMPosted by SAMUNOZ1
I have a decent SS + R6 set on my monk (lightningfist). I will give it a whirl today and see how it does.


Just a pre-trial tip (based on your profile): You need to be using Spirit Guards and a cubed Cindercoat otherwise you will run out of spirit much faster. Also, you might run into a bit of trouble higher up without RCR and LPH on your SS.
I have been theory crafting and I love R6 and believe it to be superior to U6 for NS.

I have some awesome tips for you guys that may or may not be known!

R6-SS is boss if you can recover spirit with the click of a button.

That button is Blinding Flash. with SEPH and Zodiac in the cube.

FD+Furnace can crit 3B+ with a good group quickly and for long periods of time so there is that....

I was experimenting with a sankis, cindercoat, zodiac, cubed. Replacing agility mantra with SSS belt Sixth Sense hellfire ammy, esoteric gem, mythic, size, alacrity, harmony.

My highest grift is 54 atm but I dont fish.

I'm really digging a zodiac THOUSAND SIDED STRIKE BUILD!
r6+zodiac+cindercoat+Radiance+FireSSS+SSSbelt.
09/04/2015 10:55 AMPosted by LiveTribunal
R6-SS is boss if you can recover spirit with the click of a button.

That button is Blinding Flash. with SEPH and Zodiac in the cube.


The only problem I see with this is that to use Blinding Flash you have to replace Breath of Heaven (which also fills your spirit in 1 second). And you HAVE to use Seph in order to get that spirit. I find Breath of Heaven to be just as effective with Spirit as well as letting you use Cindercoat which saves a lot of spirit too.

Your idea is definitely an alternative that could work, but I think BoH and Cinder have a little more potential.

And I think R6+SS can be a season contender too. There are plenty of non-season R6+SS that are above the highest season Grift. If R6+SS can hit 66-70 non-season, then it can seasonal as well, which is enough to challenge U6 and Gen Build for the top spot.
I was able to complete 53 with my setup. I need a decent set of spirit guards. What generator should I be using?
09/04/2015 11:59 AMPosted by SAMUNOZ1
I was able to complete 53 with my setup. I need a decent set of spirit guards. What generator should I be using?

Fist of Lightning - Quickening is best for Spirit Generation with SS.

09/04/2015 11:17 AMPosted by Default
The only problem I see with this is that to use Blinding Flash you have to replace Breath of Heaven


I use both.

So I'm you replace the Mantra then? Epiphany 50% DR and Sanctuary 55% DR are too important to give up, Mantra is the lowest survival booster, but I find it necessary at 55+. You could use both, but I think your spirit would be fine with just 1 and the toughness boost from the other skills is necessary to push higher.
Quickening with infused with light stays
on the bar
Sorry Dfault, I was mixing a few builds in my head, but that's my main tX under 50 build.

Infused, Blinding,Desert,SSS. quickening, DS, with furnace, seph , zodiac cubed.

Quite different for over 50.
09/04/2015 11:59 AMPosted by SAMUNOZ1
I was able to complete 53 with my setup. I need a decent set of spirit guards. What generator should I be using?

Fist of Lightning - Quickening is best for Spirit Generation with SS.


I cubed Cinder, found some spirit guards & switched to quickening manage to do 56 fairly easy. Will try 58 later today to get on the leaderboards.

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