Are you using the right rune?

Witch Doctor
Just curious if anybody else has been testing this as well.
I recently switched from using Fire Wall to Ring of Poison.
At first I thought it was just another AoE option for speed farming similar to the cold rune.
Then I started to realize that this rune actually is pretty effing sweet.
If you haven't tried it yet I highly recommend it.

I plugged my char info into d3planner and the results were astounding.
First I did a test to see my stats with 20% fire on Jeram's bracers then looked at my damage on Zombie Bears and Fire Wall.
Then changed the 20% fire to 20% poison and Fire Wall to Ring of Poison.
With my current stats my overall loss on Fire Wall was even less than running with PTV then dropping it.
And my overall gain on Zombie Bears was fantastic.
Sorry I don't remember the numbers, I've been having trouble loading my character inventory with d3planner lately and I'm too lazy to select my gear stats 1 by 1.
But the overall increase was noticeable.

Not to mention if anybody has actually been trying this rune out, you will notice a couple things.
The first is that the AoE is so much better than Fire Wall and it helps with both speed runs and trash compacting.
The 2nd which I'm not 100% sure about is that when an enemy gets hit by Ring of Poison it applies a DoT for the duration listed.
So even though WoD only lasts for 5 seconds, the DoT lasts for 8 seconds.
The other thing which I'm not 100% sure about is when you first cast it there is a small circle in the center, and I'm pretty sure that applies the DoT as well.

Try it out you won't regret it!
FAIK, the ring in the center does *not* apply the dot. That's where *you* stand : )
I was under the impression fire wall still destroyed it even if you use poison gear because fire wall applies its dot twice and continues to stack once they leave it.
I'm pretty sure that Fire Wall is an AoE DoT meaning that it only applies the DoT while standing in the area.
Which means in a perfect world where mobs don't move around, Fire Wall is way better.
But, since the game is pretty dynamic I think poison will outshine fire.

And thanks for the clarification about the center of the ring, totally wasn't sure about that one.
Yeah they take zero damage in the center of the ring.
In my experience firewall applies a dot to the mob that touches it, and thus they continue to take damage even if they leave the firewall. I have never tried poison because of my consistent success with firewall even though I stack poison damage % on my gear.
10/01/2015 06:45 PMPosted by Evict
I'm pretty sure that Fire Wall is an AoE DoT meaning that it only applies the DoT while standing in the area.
Which means in a perfect world where mobs don't move around, Fire Wall is way better.
But, since the game is pretty dynamic I think poison will outshine fire.

And thanks for the clarification about the center of the ring, totally wasn't sure about that one.


They only have to touch fire wall, they don't need to stay in. But if they stay in it for the whole duration, the dot will apply twice (e.g. last the full 8s). In that sense, FW is far better for mass aoe grinding.
So if if Fire Wall still applies the DoT instead of acting like an area DoT the numbers still don't add up.
According to d3 planner the overall damage is about the same, and hoping that the mobs stay in for the whole duration is not very optimal in a dynamic situation (example Perdition RG, or any of the Angel RG).
Also something that I've noticed is when getting a channeling shrine and spamming WoD (either rune fire or poison) that the mobs don't seem to die faster when spamming it over and over again, which leads me to believe that there is a maximum stack size allowed for this DoT skill.
If that is true then having Fire Wall apply the stack again doesn't really add to the damage.

As an update on the numbers on d3planner:

With 20% poison on bracers and WoD on the poison rune (Soul Harvest 5 stacks, Piranhado, Confidence ritual, Stricken 50 stacks, FnR, BotT, CoE on elites but not RG):
Zombie bears: 13,155,641,067
WoD: 14,104,646,286

With 20% fire on bracers and WoD on the fire rune (Soul Harvest 5 stacks, Piranhado, Confidence ritual, Stricken 50 stacks, FnR, BotT, CoE on elites but not RG):
Zombie bears: 10,963,034,223
WoD: 12,929,259,096

Edit: Forgot to add paragon points but oh well...

See what I mean?
Stop using d3planner and go out into the world of Sanctuary and try the skill. It is far easier to mow down mobs with firewall (mind you I still stack poison % for my ZB)
I do play the game...
I wouldn't just spout nonsense and not even try it out.
The poison rune also makes Bad Medicine very easy to proc on mobs that aren't in melee range yet.
So if you are having trouble with ranged mobs it's also good.
10/02/2015 05:00 PMPosted by Evict
believe that there is a maximum stack size allowed for this DoT skill.


There is. I feel it's about 5 or so. I tried to ask this around in another thread but people didn't think it was important :)
That's why I use Communing. ...damage reduction of Bad Medicine without using the passive slot.

And the real reason Fire Wall seems the best is that your mimics cast the Circle runes on the mobs with the mob at the centre (where is does no damage) where as Fire Wall is a line so it instantly affects mobs that the mimics cast it on.

I mean if you had no Grin Reaper then the gap between runes would be not so noticeable imo
10/02/2015 05:00 PMPosted by Evict
So if if Fire Wall still applies the DoT instead of acting like an area DoT the numbers still don't add up.
According to d3 planner the overall damage is about the same, and hoping that the mobs stay in for the whole duration is not very optimal in a dynamic situation (example Perdition RG, or any of the Angel RG).
Also something that I've noticed is when getting a channeling shrine and spamming WoD (either rune fire or poison) that the mobs don't seem to die faster when spamming it over and over again, which leads me to believe that there is a maximum stack size allowed for this DoT skill.
If that is true then having Fire Wall apply the stack again doesn't really add to the damage.

As an update on the numbers on d3planner:

With 20% poison on bracers and WoD on the poison rune (Soul Harvest 5 stacks, Piranhado, Confidence ritual, Stricken 50 stacks, FnR, BotT, CoE on elites but not RG):
Zombie bears: 13,155,641,067
WoD: 14,104,646,286

With 20% fire on bracers and WoD on the fire rune (Soul Harvest 5 stacks, Piranhado, Confidence ritual, Stricken 50 stacks, FnR, BotT, CoE on elites but not RG):
Zombie bears: 10,963,034,223
WoD: 12,929,259,096

Edit: Forgot to add paragon points but oh well...

See what I mean?


its not useful to compare direct numbers between firewall and poison ring. this is because the damage number d3planner displays only show the damage associated with 1 instance of the dot shown in the tooltip. in other words, d3planner damage assumes the 1100% weapon damage from firewall will only apply once per cast, but in practice firewall often applies twice per cast. not to mention you sometimes dont get any damage from poison ring if you drop the ring centered on the mobs.

in your example, the firewall damage is probably closer to 20b, instead of 13. and poison ring damage is probably closer to 10b.
This has all been tested and documented in other threads, Firewall does almost twice as much damage, and has a chance to proc its DoT twice per each single cast. This results in WAY more damage.

Just look at the numbers

poison = 1200 in 8 seconds
fire = 1100 in 4 seconds, then possibly another 1100 in the next 4 seconds.

Also remember poison only lasts for 5 seconds. firewall sits there for 3 more seconds for a chance to apply double the damage to any new mobs that hit it.

there is just no comparison. If you enjoy using the poison ring then thats great and keep using it. However if you would like to do more damage then switch back to firewall.

I just missed my NS 64 last night by 1 second because they put the RG a 30 second walk away from my location :(

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