Grin Reaper, less spells = more

Witch Doctor
Hy guys,

I run a helltooth build with firewall and pets.
Currently I am discordant with myself about using hex or mass confusion for CC.

If I am informed correctly the 20% damage increase from MC - Paranoia stacks with the MCs from the mimics. Is that correct?

On the other hand, the mimics do not cast hex, in my understanding this means they will cast firewall more often.
How does the mechanic work? Is there an internal cooldown for each spell the mimics cast? In this case it would be better to use multiple skills the mimics can cast.
If there is no internal cooldown, I would prefer a build with as few as possible skills the mimics can cast, because then they will mass spam firewall.
Which one is correct?

Best Regards!
I am 99% sure mimics do cast hex. Just not right when you need it : /

Their spell 'rotation' is somewhat haphazard, so I wouln't build around it specifically. They don't 'spam' firewall with happy abandon from what I have seen, so there is some kind of ICD or CD or priority system.

I'd say the dmg bonus from MC is easily bested by using Harvest, 'nado, or even hex-jinx due to the CD. For group runs I forego furnace, cube SMK and just run slam dance (using BoT obviously).
10/01/2015 10:13 AMPosted by SubSeven
On the other hand, the mimics do not cast hex, in my understanding this means they will cast firewall more often.


I'm pretty sure they cast Hex-Jinx

10/01/2015 10:18 AMPosted by RedQueen
For group runs I forego furnace, cube SMK and just run slam dance (using BoT obviously).


I know I don't have a GG Suwong (which is why I went bears), but I think the stronger/more versatile route is to go bears. You can run ToTD and GI to have Slam Dance running constantly without losing Furnace. That also allows me to have Hex-Jinx available at all times and cast unlimited Firewall because of that glorious high mob density in higher grifts.
10/01/2015 12:50 PMPosted by Eatmonster
10/01/2015 10:13 AMPosted by SubSeven
On the other hand, the mimics do not cast hex, in my understanding this means they will cast firewall more often.


I'm pretty sure they cast Hex-Jinx

10/01/2015 10:18 AMPosted by RedQueen
For group runs I forego furnace, cube SMK and just run slam dance (using BoT obviously).


I know I don't have a GG Suwong (which is why I went bears), but I think the stronger/more versatile route is to go bears. You can run ToTD and GI to have Slam Dance running constantly without losing Furnace. That also allows me to have Hex-Jinx available at all times and cast unlimited Firewall because of that glorious high mob density in higher grifts.


idk about you but GR density for me is still a problem quite often (especially solo). Even w/ TotD, GI doesn't reduce the bbv CD down fast enough to be able to spam it, while if I have SMK cubed and 15 fetishes up, I can cast it probably faster than it wears off - useful when chain pulling with monk+barbs. It's also not that crucial to run furnace since in high GRifts elites tend to be skipped almost always. It will ultimately only slow you down on the RG somewhat (but then again 30% vs 50% is still a-ok).

Jinx is fine for solo I guess (means you lose either nado, or harvest, or bbv though, and I like all of those too much personally) but for groups I am now strongly against it because hexed mobs cannot be pulled in by cyclone strike (or nado, actually).

I've also tried every variation of bears and every time I am very disappointed compared to AC. I think the main issue is that WOD goes off weapon damage and disregards APS, meaning that even rolling +WOD on your OH, you still lose a ton of dmg from WOD as bears (and WOD is the majority of your damage in HT). You also have to channel and deal with crappy terrain gimps. I am still honestly at a complete loss as to how the top 50 or w/e WDs are doing 70 GRs solo with bears.... just doesn't make sense to me.
10/01/2015 10:13 AMPosted by SubSeven
Hy guys,

I run a helltooth build with firewall and pets.
Currently I am discordant with myself about using hex or mass confusion for CC.

If I am informed correctly the 20% damage increase from MC - Paranoia stacks with the MCs from the mimics. Is that correct?

On the other hand, the mimics do not cast hex, in my understanding this means they will cast firewall more often.
How does the mechanic work? Is there an internal cooldown for each spell the mimics cast? In this case it would be better to use multiple skills the mimics can cast.
If there is no internal cooldown, I would prefer a build with as few as possible skills the mimics can cast, because then they will mass spam firewall.
Which one is correct?

Best Regards!


I have seen Mimics Hex themselves into Chickens, not often but it does happen.
10/01/2015 01:41 PMPosted by RedQueen
idk about you


You make some very good points. My Suwong isn't even as big a damage as my 1h... meep moop. There are some advantages to bears if you get good at it. For one thing, I can't run out of mana unless I'm buffed and in BBV. AC goes oom. You can also use the terrain to your advantage with bears in some situations.

Grift 40-50 - I'm most likely pulling lower levels through it. The reduced cooldown from GI on Spirit Walk and Hex-Jinx are what keep me alive.
Grift 50-65 - I'll try your advice out. Remove Hex in favor of Harvest most likely. Mimics cast nado all over the damn place and mess up pulls imo.
Grift 65+ - I switch to the carn doc anyway so it's an entirely different discussion. I'm already running cubed SMK instead of Furnace with 100% BBV uptime.
10/01/2015 01:55 PMPosted by Visionhero
I have seen Mimics Hex themselves into Chickens, not often but it does happen.


Now I have to watch for this!
10/01/2015 02:02 PMPosted by Eatmonster
10/01/2015 01:41 PMPosted by RedQueen
idk about you


You make some very good points. My Suwong isn't even as big a damage as my 1h... meep moop. There are some advantages to bears if you get good at it. For one thing, I can't run out of mana unless I'm buffed and in BBV. AC goes oom. You can also use the terrain to your advantage with bears in some situations.

Grift 40-50 - I'm most likely pulling lower levels through it. The reduced cooldown from GI on Spirit Walk and Hex-Jinx are what keep me alive.
Grift 50-65 - I'll try your advice out. Remove Hex in favor of Harvest most likely. Mimics cast nado all over the damn place and mess up pulls imo.
Grift 65+ - I switch to the carn doc anyway so it's an entirely different discussion. I'm already running cubed SMK instead of Furnace with 100% BBV uptime.


ya but SW cd is like 10s as opposed to the base 120 of bbv... that's a lot of kills for a full refresh.
I don't usually run below 60 since it does very little for me xp or gem wise.

for low-mid 60s it's a tossup because elites can still go down fast enough with furnace and whites melt so fast that bbv is close to irrelevant. But as you get close to 70, elites start to take too long and whites take just long enough that every big clump is perfect for a slam dance :) . I run harvest/bbv b/c nado can sometimes mess things up, as you said and because harvest is just overall a more useful/consistent boost. Also nado is not as crucial when your monk is doing his job.

I actually run PtV and CR in my AC build, and oom only occasionally - because of max paragon RCR, abusing GF (I make my healmonk cube solanium :P), and I run the first harvest rune (mana gain) which via GI keeps me sufficiently 'fed'. A bit glassy without swampland or languish but as long as I am running esoteric and humping inner sanc, I usually stay alive just fine. I know it's not what the top 'boards' WDs use, but considering how few of the top groups actually even have a WD, let alone HT WD (yay balance, and lag), I'm not particularly concerned with being a 'proper cookie'.
I can see bears being OK in groups too, I just don't think the damage output for the build is as high as AC ... and having to reposition constantly for inner sanc could be a gimp. Just my 2c though.
If mimics can turn themselves into chickens, how about manajuma's set and using angry chicken?
10/01/2015 04:01 PMPosted by Evict
If mimics can turn themselves into chickens, how about manajuma's set and using angry chicken?

what about it?
don't understand the question....
10/01/2015 02:04 PMPosted by Eatmonster
10/01/2015 01:55 PMPosted by Visionhero
I have seen Mimics Hex themselves into Chickens, not often but it does happen.


Now I have to watch for this!


I would say it happens once an hour when I am running bounties. I haven't see it in several days. i have seen my mimics casting Firebats alot more often. I recently changed from Vampire bats to the poison one though.
10/01/2015 04:01 PMPosted by Evict
If mimics can turn themselves into chickens, how about manajuma's set and using angry chicken?


I've never seem explode however. I am betting it's a bug. Can you imagine if you could get 3 explosions in s group like that?
Don't think Vision is referring to Mimics using Angry Chicken.....more so that they will accidentally hex themselves with the std hex effect....bug?
Speaking of damage stacking ( your nado with mimics nados stacking the amplification) does the mimics jinx stack with yours?....would be epic lol
Mimics turn themselves into chicken all the time, but then they just sit there and never move/explode.
All I know is I had Pirhanado slotted for some time, then took it off for a long while and forgot all about it. I slotted it again the other night and Jesus... it's a night and day experience with mimics. I dunno why I ever took it off.
I left only hex on my bar and summoned the mimics with firebats, not once did they cast hex or changed themselves into a chicken. Maybe a bug with hex shaman itself hexing the mimics?
My mimics cast her (jinx) pretty regularly...
I always thought the mimics did not use Hex (Jinx), but since I use the enchantress I noticed I often saw a single chicken and assumed there was a bug with the Enchantress using her (unenabled) ability. Now I know.

The problem with Piranhado, for me is, I can't use it myself as it would be competing with Acid Cloud mana. I will give it a try, I know the most benefit is the Mimics would use it costing me nothing, but that is less Firewalls and Acid Clouds being used.
The less is more philosophy with mimics is very powerful. You can't control them but you can control which skills they have access to. And which skills have cooldown and which don't is pertinent.

Mine are equipped only with ZB, Mass Confusion, firewall, and hex. They are CC power houses that rarely even bother with ZB. Though when they do it hits pretty hard.
10/02/2015 01:01 PMPosted by Kzinti
Mimics turn themselves into chicken all the time, but then they just sit there and never move/explode.


Mine follow me when I move, but your right they do not move on their own accord. It appears they are leashed to you and don't attack. It's like I am taking my pet chickens for a walk. :)

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