RoRG minimum?

Items and Crafting
Why is a minimum of 2 pieces required for the RoRG to function? Most of the 2-piece bonuses I'm aware of aren't particularly game-breaking. What's the problem with sacrificing a ring slot to obtain them with one piece?
Focus/Restraint say hello.
10/04/2015 09:25 AMPosted by BRSANGUINE
because then they wouldn't be called "set bonuses" if they can be obtained with just one piece.
so, it's a semantics issue?
10/04/2015 11:53 AMPosted by Plunkie
Focus/Restraint say hello.
Focus/RoRG instead of Focus/Restraint?
I don't quite see the huge payoff..
10/04/2015 04:18 PMPosted by normalice
10/04/2015 11:53 AMPosted by Plunkie
Focus/Restraint say hello.
Focus/RoRG instead of Focus/Restraint?
I don't quite see the huge payoff..


The payoff comes when you allow multiple two-piece sets to work with only one piece, especially weapons. Shenlong's + Little Rogue/Slanderer for instance. Plus, you'd be able to get the two-piece armor bonuses from up to seven different sets. Seems pretty powerful to me.
2pc Jade
2pc Aughild's
2pc BT
F/R
All at once would be pretty cool
10/04/2015 06:51 PMPosted by Plunkie
The payoff comes when you allow multiple two-piece sets to work with only one piece, especially weapons. Shenlong's + Little Rogue/Slanderer for instance. Plus, you'd be able to get the two-piece armor bonuses from up to seven different sets. Seems pretty powerful to me.
it seems powerful, sure, but without a 6-piece bonus it doesn't matter what you do, you aren't getting past GR50.
10/05/2015 08:33 AMPosted by normalice
it seems powerful, sure, but without a 6-piece bonus it doesn't matter what you do, you aren't getting past GR50.

Now imagine a 6-piece set while only wearing 5 pieces and getting other 3 bonuses from s-piece bonuses. It's especially broken when you consider Focus and Restraint of the Weapon sets.

* Vyr + Chantodo + 2-piece Tal's + 2-piece Firebird or Slow Time hat.
* Wastes + BulKathos + F&R + 2-piece Immortal King.

etc.

If RoRG worked like that, it would be a permanent item in the cube. It cannot work on 2 piece bonuses because it would make all the 2 piece sets automatically obsolete. You would only ever need to wear one piece + the ring and stack as many as you can.
10/06/2015 04:48 AMPosted by Wyrmheart
* Vyr + Chantodo + 2-piece Tal's + 2-piece Firebird or Slow Time hat
that's precisely the useless example I was thinking when I posted this, actually. A meteor saves you from death? Okay, not 'horrible,' but do you really think that's going to push you into higher GRs? Or every 8 seconds one meteor falls from the sky while in Archon form? Is that going to push you into higher GRs? Maybe one level if you are just teetering on the edge, but otherwise no. Your power is going to come from 6-piece Vyr's and Chantodo.
Allowing RoRG to work as 1p of all sets, no matter how many pieces make up the set? Well, Let's take a breakdown of all the class 2p set bonuses, shall we? And for the sake of argument, let's presume that F&R get balanced against other ring options in the future.

Barbarian
Immortal King - permanent ancients. Semi-strong...but most barbarians already run with this, so this doesn't change much in and of itself, beyond opening up another piece for their other set bonuses.

Might of the Earth - Earthquake (a very sad, sad skill) cooldown reduction by 2 seconds when it kills something. I don't even give enough ****s to know what this set is supposed to be for.

Raekor - Double damage on first target hit by Furious Charge - a skill that's annoying at best to hit anything with, and does only "meh" level damage. Exactly zero ****s given.

Wastes - Rend damage increased by 500% and its duration increased to 15 seconds. Big deal. Quite big. Which is why, for either side of barbarian playstyles, this set bonus is quite common.

Verdict - nothing that wasn't already easily possible.

Crusader
Roland - Sweep Attack and Shield Bash reduces the cd on laws and defensive skills. Only good if you're using Sweep Attack or Shield Bash...which means you're *already* using this entire set.

Akkhan - +500 strength. That's almost noteworthy in the sense that it's a set bonus...

Light - Blessed Hammer reduces the cd on Failing Sword and Provoke by 1 second. Translation: you all of this set or don't bother using any of it.

Verdict - close enough to call this nothing at all.

Demon Hunter
Natalaya's - Permanent Rain of Vengeance (more or less). Okay, you got me with this one. RoV is potent enough to be worth pointing out. However, permanent RoV would only be useful to...

Unhallowed - Generators also restore one discipline. Bluntly, of minimal value. Discipline isn't offensively strong, And its defensive value is just as limited by cooldowns. Nice, but hardly important.

Marauder's - All pets! Good all around bonus for any Demon Hunter...that wants to sacrifice a skill slot for the companion skill.

Verdict - Moderate gains from Nat's or Marauder's. But realistically, only if you're using the Unhallowed set.

Monk
Storms - +300% damage and 25% faster attack speed on generators. Well...it's something? And, by that I mean, they're generators. We'd stop using them if we could.

Sunwuko - Certain spirit spenders produce a flaky body double that has a flaky taunt that explodes for flaky 1000% weapon damage. Translation - ridiculously unreliable.

Inna's - Base passive effect of Mantras and Mystic Ally doubled! Actually useful. No, seriously. 20% damage boost from your Mantra, and another 20% damage boost from your Ally! Easily achieved already, but still worth more than enough to mention.

Uliana's - Spirit generators now also applying Exploding Palm...but only every 3rd hit of them (not so great). Still, not so bad.

Verdict - opens up a couple reasonably good options.

Witch Doctor
Helltooth - Just going to throw this out there. Yup, it's good. 1500% additional weapon damage to most skills, and a 20% increase for you and everyone else. It's good.

Jade - Haunt deals 10 seconds of damage when it hits a haunted target. That's reasonably good, with Haunt capable of being comparable to Helltooth's 2p.

Arachyr's - 800% weapon damage per second effect that requires a specific, but decent, primary to control. Not really worth all that much, honestly.

Zunimassa - Permanent Fetish Army. Not quite shrug worthy, but it's something.

Verdict - Good. Not excellent (read F&R level), but still quite good.

Wizard
Vyr's - Archon, without being full-on Archon, isn't exactly an impressive skill. 1/3rd of a **** given.

Firebird - An autoress every 5 minutes...that leaves you in a position to die easy again a few moments later. Zero ****s given.

Tal Rasha - Meteors! Kaboom! Well, they would be, if the damage wasn't kind of sad on their own. Also greatly limits skill choice to trigger the meteors. Still, better'n nothin'.

Delsere's - To put it bluntly, nobody gives a damn about the 2p bonus. Not unless you're using the entire set. Negative one **** given.

Verdict - Kinda sad, in all honesty.

So there you have it folks. The winners are Monks and Witch Doctors...but even those set bonuses are just 'good' level improvements. Everyone else ranges from "Dear god, why?!" to "Well, it's something more than nothing" bonuses. Special mention to Crusaders for having the most god-awful 2p bonuses of any class on *all* of their sets. Way to fail hard. (edit- forgot to include Zunimassa)
10/06/2015 09:44 AMPosted by LostSoul
So there you have it folks. The winners are Monks and Witch Doctors...but even those set bonuses are just 'good' level improvements. Everyone else ranges from "Dear god, why?!" to "Well, it's something more than nothing" bonuses. Special mention to Crusaders for having the most god-awful 2p bonuses of any class on *all* of their sets. Way to fail hard. (edit- forgot to include Zunimassa)
yup. thanks for laying it all out. It was basically my point that it doesn't really add much, so why not? It would open up some option, at least. No, they wouldn't be particularly good options, but hey..
10/06/2015 12:29 PMPosted by normalice
10/06/2015 09:44 AMPosted by LostSoul
So there you have it folks. The winners are Monks and Witch Doctors...but even those set bonuses are just 'good' level improvements. Everyone else ranges from "Dear god, why?!" to "Well, it's something more than nothing" bonuses. Special mention to Crusaders for having the most god-awful 2p bonuses of any class on *all* of their sets. Way to fail hard. (edit- forgot to include Zunimassa)
yup. thanks for laying it all out. It was basically my point that it doesn't really add much, so why not? It would open up some option, at least. No, they wouldn't be particularly good options, but hey..


I think the only reason this can't or hasn't happened is Focus and Restraint. 100% damage boost just for equipping a single ring (or even 50% if you skip a generator/primary) is a ridiculously strong.
10/06/2015 01:12 PMPosted by LostSoul
I think the only reason this can't or hasn't happened is Focus and Restraint. 100% damage boost just for equipping a single ring (or even 50% if you skip a generator/primary) is a ridiculously strong.
well, the thing is you're still equipping two rings. focus + RoRG is no different, slot-wise, than Focus+Restraint, except you can also get some other 2-piece bonuses with only one slot - but as you have shown, that's kind of a moot point. Yes, you could cube RoRG and equip something like CoE, but that's not any different (jewlery-slot-wise) than equipping F&R and cubing CoE.

I mean, unless the RoRG often rolls better stats than focus or restraint, I don't really get the game-breaking benefit.
Except you can cube RoRG. You can't cube F&R.

And no. RoRG cannot roll as well as F&R. It has 2 hard-rolled substandard stats.
10/06/2015 06:32 PMPosted by LostSoul
Except you can cube RoRG. You can't cube F&R.
but there's no difference. if you have F&R equipped and RoRG cubed, it wouldn't be any different (stat-wise) from if you could cube 'Focus' and equip RoRG. Similarly, if you have RoRG cubed and RoRG didn't have the minimum set count requirement, you could use just focus and (say) CoE. But that's no different (stat-wise) from using focus and restraint with COE in the cube, except you can use additional 2-piece bonuses from just one piece - which, as LostSoul pointed out, doesn't really qualify as a benefit.

Basically, it breaks down like this:
If you have Focus + Restraint + CoE (in the cube) you'll have some amount of stats and some amount of damage boost.

But if RoRG didn't have the minimum, you could have:
Focus + RoRG + CoE in the cube
Restraint + RoRG + CoE in the cube
Focus + CoE + RoRG in the cube
Restraint + CoE + RoRG in the cube
All of these resulting is the exact same amount of stats (or less!) and the exact same amount of damage boost as what is currently allowed. The same is true of anything you might swap the CoE for (i.e. Zodiac). The only exceptions are:
You could equip Litany of the Undaunted xor The Wailing Host for that sweet 15% magic find
You could equip The Compass Rose for 50% CHD. It's not nothing, but it's not game-breaking either.

That's it. Every other ring combination is already attainable by substituting RoRG for Focus or Restraint (except the class specific rings, of course, but those are all part of 6-piece sets).

And no. RoRG cannot roll as well as F&R. It has 2 hard-rolled substandard stats.
that's a point in my favor :-P
10/06/2015 09:44 AMPosted by LostSoul
Allowing RoRG to work as 1p of all sets, no matter how many pieces make up the set? Well, Let's take a breakdown of all the class 2p set bonuses, shall we? And for the sake of argument, let's presume that F&R get balanced against other ring options in the future.

Barbarian
Immortal King - permanent ancients. Semi-strong...but most barbarians already run with this, so this doesn't change much in and of itself, beyond opening up another piece for their other set bonuses.

Might of the Earth - Earthquake (a very sad, sad skill) cooldown reduction by 2 seconds when it kills something. I don't even give enough ****s to know what this set is supposed to be for.

Raekor - Double damage on first target hit by Furious Charge - a skill that's annoying at best to hit anything with, and does only "meh" level damage. Exactly zero ****s given.

Wastes - Rend damage increased by 500% and its duration increased to 15 seconds. Big deal. Quite big. Which is why, for either side of barbarian playstyles, this set bonus is quite common.

Verdict - nothing that wasn't already easily possible.


Sorry but this is a very wrong way of looking at it.
RorG in cube + Focus and convention of elements in ring slot
Bul kathos warrior blood main hand with slanderer or little rogue off hand
IK belt and 5 piece wastes set along with hexing pants or something in your cube.

So lets add all this up

30% IAS from Slanderer/Little Rogue
30% IAS + 10 fury/s from Bul Kathos Warrior Blood
200% elemental damage from Convention
Permanent 50% damage reduction from IK 2 set "together as one" rune
5 piece Wastes set so 40% damage reduction while whirl winding + 500% rend damage + 2500% damage tornado's.
25% damage and resource gen from hexing pants ( if you choose to go this way.)
50% elite damage from furnace.
So yes there is a lot to be gained from such a (seemingly) minor change.
there is a possibility of 113% attack speed increase excluding legendary gems or 7% from helmet.

On top of all that, Bane of the Stricken's internal cool down is reduced by sheet attacked speed.
Barbs could possible reach the 0.25 internal cool down on it, on top of spewing out tornadoes like crazy.
10/06/2015 09:15 PMPosted by Blacksheep
30% IAS from Slanderer/Little Rogue
30% IAS + 10 fury/s from Bul Kathos Warrior Blood
200% elemental damage from Convention
Permanent 50% damage reduction from IK 2 set "together as one" rune
5 piece Wastes set so 40% damage reduction while whirl winding + 500% rend damage + 2500% damage tornado's.
25% damage and resource gen from hexing pants ( if you choose to go this way.)
50% elite damage from furnace.
So yes there is a lot to be gained from such a (seemingly) minor change.
there is a possibility of 113% attack speed increase excluding legendary gems or 7% from helmet.
you can already achieve this minus 30% IAS from Slanderer/Little Rogue..Indeed, I practically have nearly this exact build here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/normalice-1189/hero/22737693
Differences are, I use IKBB instead of BK, and F&R instead of COE/'something else'... But the point is I could already have everything you listed, minus the 30% IAS.

is that extra 30% IAS going to be game breaking? Somehow I doubt it, but I suppose it's worth thinking about..
FYI: Bulkathos set is *not* 30% increased attack speed. It applies *only* to Whirlwind. Your sheet attack speed does not increase by 30% while using Whirlwind. It doesn't increase your sheet attack speed at all. Thus this set bonus has no impact on the function of any other effect, skill, or power.
10/07/2015 08:52 AMPosted by LostSoul
FYI: Bulkathos set is *not* 30% increased attack speed. It applies *only* to Whirlwind. Your sheet attack speed does not increase by 30% while using Whirlwind. It doesn't increase your sheet attack speed at all. Thus this set bonus has no impact on the function of any other effect, skill, or power.
true, but if you are going to whirlwind the entire time anyway..

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