new sc speed gr meta, 4th class options?

Monk
I have been reading more lately about the new meta evolving around using 1 fof heal monk + 1 sc dps monk + 2 xp support classes.

out of the 2 support classes one will be a support barb obviously. so that leaves one last slot.

considering the class has to run full xp gear and has to be very proficent at proccing the dps monks sc, which would you think would be the best or even just good enough to be viable options?

hoping this last 4th spot could have some class variety to be able to fit many classes, but im pretty clueless about most classes.

For example I main wiz since 1.0 (oldschooler yes). And I think wiz could be at least viable for this role but not sure of what it offers compared to other classes.

ill go ahead and post what I have come up with that could be proficent at the role.

2.7 aps pre group buff or pain enhancer ( can easily achive 4+ aps with pe stacks) spamming 3 piercing 0.5 proc coef bolts (nice aoe and each bolt can proc on same target) + big aoe long lasting dot that ticks 4 times per second (0.05 proc coef)

with the following group buffs/debuffs:

45% additive damage buff (+ more if strongarms/overwhelming desire)
16% chc
10% ias
25% dr debuff on mobs.

with a last option off either:

a second aoe dot that adds 15% lightning damage taken debuff.

affix sucking bh (for those lazers) which is a general pull.

very tight pull via ranselor bracers just on whites and minions (would make sc debuffing very easy)

opinions? suggestions?
Datmodz and Quin are running Crusaders in the 4th spot. Modz group is a SC monk, an Istvan Heal monk, support barb and proc Crusader. Basically all 3 support toons wear as much xp gear as possible and use high proc coefficient abilities to trigger the SC monks SC. His group is speed running GR 75. He said that their group is averaging 250-300 BILLION xp per hour!!
yeah i know the 4th spot is usually taken by a proc crusader. but what does it bring to the table?

the way i see it, there could be alot of classes that can be very efficent @ proccing sc and bringing buffs/debuffs for the group paired with a max xp setup.

thing is proc coef are not the only thing to consider for max expected procs/s. bigger aoes, faster attack speeds or tick rates or even dot layering, can do more prcs per second than just proc rates. for example wizards arcane torrent statics discharge has just a a 0.2 proc coef but it ticks 3/s @ 1 aps and each ticj generates 2 extra bolts with 0.2 coef and has aoe. that will have an expected proc rate of 1.8 per second per target, plenty more than a 1.0 coef spell.

What i want to know is what options could be viable.
Proc saders are using condemn I think, which has a proc rate close to 1 and can be spammed.

Not to mention they still have the most potent damage buffs in the game. Only reason they fell out of the meta was the need to find ways to survive in grifts that high, which the answer we came up with was heal monk + zbarb.
I want to see 2-R6 monks1-SC monk and 1-heal/cyclone/ep monk.

Dashing, collecting, destroying,

3 touching forbidden palaces to walk down the hall on.
Yay we have Wizards in the place.

Dat Modz Proc Crusader video guide => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylKPM4Vei00
ProcSader D-Fans.com written guide ==> http://www.diablofans.com/builds/66775-datmodz-300b-xp-hour-proc-crusader-build
found this:

http://www.diablofans.com/builds/66721-crusader-support-leveling

basically what i see as group buffs for the sader are:

15% ias
20% chc
and 40% dr.

+ overwhelming desire which any class can use.
10/21/2015 11:25 AMPosted by BossDogg
Yay we have Wizards in the place.


been running monk the last 3 weeks or so. Switched once i got all my gg archon gear and placed decently high in the leader boards. need more xp..... u know the deal XD
10/21/2015 11:29 AMPosted by ximae
15% ias
20% chc
and 40% dr.


Also 100% CHD.

Law of valor critical is one of the best, if not the best damage buff in the game. Big bad voodoo slam dance gives 5% more AS, but its 30% damage buff is somewhat diluted by the abundance of DIBS in groups.
10/21/2015 11:38 AMPosted by HunterKiller
Also 100% CHD.

Law of valor critical is one of the best, if not the best damage buff in the game. Big bad voodoo slam dance gives 5% more AS, but its 30% damage buff is somewhat diluted by the abundance of DIBS in groups.


oh i thought it read it gives you on the chd part. well that does make the difference.

what would be the expected proc/s with the sader?

say smite hits 8 targets @ what proc coef and what aps.
then im a bit lost with condemned.
Proc Coefficients:
- http://www.d3maxstats.com/skills/

Condem:
http://www.d3maxstats.com/skills/crus/#condemn
(83.3% coefficient)
Tried running with sader as 4th member just today, so far it's quite fine (SC Monk + Gen healer + Puller Barb + ZSader). Steamrolled through a few 70-72s just to try them out, yes it lags a lot more than when we normally done it with an SWK monk instead of the Sader, but we're actually getting relatively better clear speed and definitely faster RG kill times; the EXP gain has gone through the roof I highly doubt we'd be bringing SWK Monk to our speedfarms anymore after today..
10/21/2015 11:59 AMPosted by BossDogg
Proc Coefficients:
- http://www.d3maxstats.com/skills/

Condem:
http://www.d3maxstats.com/skills/crus/#condemn
(83.3% coefficient)


let me compare to the wiz setup i was suggesting.

ok so say sader is running 2.8 aps:

smite: 2.8 x 8 x 0.333 = 7.45 procs /s
lets say judgement hits 3 clusters of 5 mobs /s
judgement = 15 x 0.833 = 12,495 procs /s

so bascially 20 procs /s

mb conflag @ 2.8 aps hitting same 15 mobs = 2.8 x 15 x 0.5 = 21 procs /s

so proc potential is very similar.

---------------------------------------

if 54% chc and 610% chd = 1+(0.54*6.1) = 4,29x

20% chc + 100% chd = 1+(0.74*7.1) = 6.25x ; 6.25/4.29 = 1.456 or 45.6% damage increase.
16% chc = 1+(0.7*6.1) = 5.27x ; 5.27/4.29= 1.228 or 22.8% damage increase.

dibs in group : 40% heal monk + 30% barb + 30% strong arms = 100% or 2x

+45% from wiz = 2,45x ; 2.45/2 = 1.225 or 22,5% damage increase.

so bascially same damage buff contribution aswell. 45.6% crus for 45.3% wiz

------------------------------------

so it basically comes down to:

5% more ias, 0.3% more damage and 15% more dr from crus
either 15% elemental, affix removal or very tight pull and slightly higher procs /s for wiz.

imho wiz seems pretty viable as an alternative support for the composition.
Good luck then with the Wiz not being oneshottet.
Anyone run the math in post #13 passed a calculator or napkin/pen combo (besides Ximae)? Just looking for some secondary unbiased validity checking.

@Goldarm:
FYI... from post#6 in Wiz forum:
http://www.d3planner.com/689403391

Post#6 ==> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19288270332?page=1#6

- 8400 Vita
- 12.8k Armor with Force Armor
- 2.1k All Resist (not including the buff coming from the healers Inna 2-piece)
- Esoteric gem at rank 50+
- Safe Passage Teleport rune and Aether Walker in the cube
- 19k LoH with 2.6 ApS
- Slow Time with Primus Hat (Exhaustion rune)

...and then add a healer with 880k-930k LpS and 1.3m LpS with Blinding Flash.

In short, it aint hard.
10/21/2015 02:26 PMPosted by Goldarm
Good luck then with the Wiz not being oneshottet.


actually built for ehp + ip + inner sanctuary + safe passge + exhaustion paired with force armour the wiz would be the last to be one shot.

I actually just put this together with some monk and wiz gear i had lying around + a few crafts i did. no ancients or anything except weapons. not very optimzed, but a start.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ximae-1789/hero/64688242

if i add in lacunis which i had salaveged and will need to get again + transgresion gogok wpuld put me @ 3 aps which in previous example would net 22,5 procs /s and i didnt even include frozen mist procs which @ 4 ticks /s 0.05 coef and 15 mobs would add another 3 procs /s.

If anybody is willing to test this hit me, im EU
My son's EU monk is low paragon and still developing.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BossDogg-1898/hero/65999676

However, she can T8 solo no problem and has full Raiment 6-piece (some items in stash). The testing shouldn't be too hard.
10/21/2015 06:13 PMPosted by ximae
10/21/2015 02:26 PMPosted by Goldarm
Good luck then with the Wiz not being oneshottet.


actually built for ehp + ip + inner sanctuary + safe passge + exhaustion paired with force armour the wiz would be the last to be one shot.

I actually just put this together with some monk and wiz gear i had lying around + a few crafts i did. no ancients or anything except weapons. not very optimzed, but a start.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ximae-1789/hero/64688242

if i add in lacunis which i had salaveged and will need to get again + transgresion gogok wpuld put me @ 3 aps which in previous example would net 22,5 procs /s and i didnt even include frozen mist procs which @ 4 ticks /s 0.05 coef and 15 mobs would add another 3 procs /s.

If anybody is willing to test this hit me, im EU


I'm all aboard for an alternative for a Sader, esp. Wizards. But the quote does had a ring of truth to it. Melee classes has a higher inherent damage reduction in general, and even though I know that you can build a Wizard to be somewhat tanky. I can't say I'm fully comfortable bringing one to low 70 speed farms let alone mid 70s. This is not even mentioning the loss of buff and/or debuff (the last part is arguable since I actually like Slow Time) that a Sader provides.
@ximae

Just a couple of points, I think you can't run ranslors as you'll interfere with the heal monk's pulls. Secondly (just nitpicking here) you can't rely on the DR from inner sanc unless you're going to face tank in the middle of the pack alongside the healer.

@All

We're talking season with stricken right? Finding it hard to imagine downing a 75 RG with only 1 full DPS in non season
10/21/2015 10:27 PMPosted by shinji
We're talking season with stricken right? Finding it hard to imagine downing a 75 RG with only 1 full DPS in non season


A lot of groups who want absolutely maximum XP per hour don't kill RG at all.

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