Competition overhaul: Ranked Greater Rift of the Day,

General Discussion
GR fishing sucks. It's boring, it places unnecessary stress on the servers, and it's a mockery as a competition layout. Whether the designers like it or not, meaningful competition needs an even playground for everyone to compete on even terms. Introducing the Ranked Greater Rift of the Day (RGRotD, for short).

But what on earth is the RGRotD? Basically, every day we'd have a random Greater Rift produced by the system under strictly high standards. This means, the RGRotD would not be able to spawn easy monsters (bye bye dumb zombies+unburied), it won't feature empty caves, will have a moderately decent density (not too much, not too little), and will be the same for everyone aspiring for a leader boards spot. It might feature higher difficulty settings, such as 5+ elite packs simultaneously, or anything deemed "crazy" under regular GR standards. Given the fact every instance of the RGRotD will be randomized every day, RNG remains present, while still having a consistent competition ground to make for a real competition, rather than the current test of patience the current lackluster "competition" is.

The RGRotD would allow you to course through it 5 times per day. At the end of each day, your performance will award you a score that will them be averaged out with every RGRotD on your current career (either seasonal or non seasonal). This eliminates the fishing meta from the leaderboards landscape, and actually measures the player's adaptability against difficult odds. Naturally, sometimes you'd find a relatively easier one, depending on your class/build, but that's what the RGRotD's long term average score system aims to balance out. Quitting a RGRotD will have a heavy impact on your score, so make sure to be prepared for whatever hell is ready to throw at you. Whether it's multiple elite packs throughout the GR, nasty ambushing winged assassins, deadlier than average environmental hazards, or even dangerous prevalent debuffs, the RGRotD is not meant for the feint of heart, let alone lame quitters. It's meant to have pre-nerf inferno-like difficulty settings. Only those able to conquer the challenge will have access to a prestigious leaderboard spot, as it should be.

Regular Greater Rifts could remain as they currently are, hopefully addressing the multiple issues they suffer from right now (empty hallways, awful density, inconsistent monster distribution, etc.). Basically, the concept is similar to what an important match for any given sport would be. You'd be able to "train" on regular GRs, looking forward to that tough RGRotD in order to really push your limits beyond your current boundaries. Adaptability is the key to this form of competition. No more looking for convenient/easy rifts to pad your scores. Quitting will be HEAVILY penalized. You'll be thrown into the toughest setups the game can offer, and only emerging victorious will warrant a prestigious spot on the leaderboards.

On a daily basis the leader boards will be updated with these RGRotD scores, determining fluctuating positions. As mentioned above, quitting will be heavily penalized, with up to 10 leaderboard spots per quit.

Please bear in mind this rough concept is aimed towards meaningful competitive gameplay, and is not meant to be over-bloated with artificial welfare rewards. The focus should remain on the actual competition after a player deems his character prepared for anything on any given current level. Some cosmetic rewards and what not might be appropriate to show off your badass-ness.

Please let me know what you think of this concept, and/or how could it be improved to focus on real competition.
bump
I like it.

I assume the ranked greater rifts will be the exact same for everyone?
In PTR, I called out the fact that greater rifts where not worth finishing if there was any chance that you will not be able to finish on time. The community poo poo'd on me telling me that I was wrong, greater rift fishing would not happen because exp and loot was enough to keep players in a greater rift even if that rift was undesirable or not completable on time. And that the cost of a greater rift stone was too high to waste.

Whatever..... Greater Rifts are a poor design, and greater rift fishing is poor gameplay.
10/27/2015 08:03 AMPosted by Shurgosa
I assume the ranked greater rifts will be the exact same for everyone?

That's the idea, to have a random daily GR for everyone to compete on an even ground, with special rulesets focused towards increased difficulty. The RGRotD could have additional parameters to increase difficulty, such as additional environmental hazards, global debuffs, additional simultaneous elites/champs, or even ubers right alongside other monsters. The point is to set a really challenging test to really filter the best from the average, who would then access the leaderboards and compete throughout the season by maintaining their average scores above others, instead of just having a single isolated lucky GR you happened to be able to complete on time after fishing for who knows how long.

The heart of this suggestion aims to completely eliminate fishing from the leaderboards landscape, and to make it a true competition, rather than just a matter of luck. Naturally, those able to consistently conquer the highest levels RGRotD (even those that happen to be inconveniently difficult) over a long span will be the ones leaving their mark at the end of an era. Personally, I think it's kind of lame that the current meta is looking for easier setups while actively avoiding truly challenging ones. That's why consistency is deeply rooted at the heart of this idea.
Awesome idea.
I like the idea. Anything to get rid of the current required fishing, which is just absurd. I, too (as have many), have been thinking about ways that they could create a better competitive environment with Rifts. I made a suggestion over at Diablo fans http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/137158-idea-custom-rifts

One minor feedback point about OP suggestion though:

1. should quitting be penalised so heavily? Shouldn't players be allowed at least one run through to see what the Rift entails? This allows people to strategise how best to beat the rift, and create specific builds for it. Otherwise you're just forcing people into a 'catch-all'/'jack-of-all-trades' build, which i think is less interesting.

But overall, good idea.
Anything "daily" is bad. Why am I forced to play everyday?

What if I can't play that day or I can't do all 5 runs that day or I have to quit in the middle of the rift because whatever real life reasons?
10/27/2015 02:34 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
10/27/2015 08:03 AMPosted by Shurgosa
I assume the ranked greater rifts will be the exact same for everyone?

That's the idea, to have a random daily GR for everyone to compete on an even ground, with special rulesets focused towards increased difficulty. The RGRotD could have additional parameters to increase difficulty, such as additional environmental hazards, global debuffs, additional simultaneous elites/champs, or even ubers right alongside other monsters. The point is to set a really challenging test to really filter the best from the average, who would then access the leaderboards and compete throughout the season by maintaining their average scores above others, instead of just having a single isolated lucky GR you happened to be able to complete on time after fishing for who knows how long.

The heart of this suggestion aims to completely eliminate fishing from the leaderboards landscape, and to make it a true competition, rather than just a matter of luck. Naturally, those able to consistently conquer the highest levels RGRotD (even those that happen to be inconveniently difficult) over a long span will be the ones leaving their mark at the end of an era. Personally, I think it's kind of lame that the current meta is looking for easier setups while actively avoiding truly challenging ones. That's why consistency is deeply rooted at the heart of this idea.


This is really crazy of me but... because I was about to go off on someone who requested finely tuned and balanced damage capability from the classes. that basically behind the scene, the devs could do this and it would be better for class balance...to have it all finely tuned

I was going to say to them that the idea of all classes doing measurably almost identical damage, as he was insinuating was HORRIBLE because it lends itself so heavily to boring routine repetition across the classes..

so then how can I support your idea of streamlined rifts while maintaining my desire for this "non-repetitive" almost wacky gameplay, if your rift idea is meant to strip away the randomness of the rift?

As you shape and reshape your ideal ranked rift...the players would quickly adapt because the tools with which the devs would allow rifts to be reshaped, would only allow rifts to be shaped somewhat inward....

it looks like a math equation; As the players adapt their characters to the ranked rift the players would all begin to move the same have the same skills and wear the same items, as was best suited for the rift.....and due to how painfully limited the variety of types of obstacles are in this game, I would fear that your ranked rift idea might never get off the ground only becasue the atmosphere is so thick and cumbersome....

at the get-go you're just dealing with the same packs with the same elite affixes, all doing the same damage types....

Am i rambling?? I just feel that your idea is purhaps inadvertently suffocated under the weight of boring items and boring threats and damage types...and any notion of streamlining a rift and reducing its chance at weaker enemies and drawing from a smaller pool of more threatening ones...

without having a way to VARY those monsters ....I wince a bit thinking about what might happen...

but I do love your thinking!!!

does this all make sense?

I'd love to hear your reply...
10/27/2015 05:25 PMPosted by PrvtPiLe
1. should quitting be penalised so heavily? Shouldn't players be allowed at least one run through to see what the Rift entails?

That's a fair point, specially considering each day your overall performance would be averaged across your 5 attempts, including quits, which would constitute a built-in penalty.

Given the whole point of this would be to reward those having the tenacity to actually attempt and overcome something exceptionally difficult, quits could pile up rather quick just with those averages alone, without the need of additional penalties. it would be more a matter of testing, I suppose. As I mentioned before, this is merely a concept, and as such it can always yield unforeseen results while exposed to testing.

As for forcing people into a jack of all trades build, I'm afraid we're already way past that point with the current set layout, but you're right. The idea isn't to force people into specific setups. In fact, being able to have a test run might actually encourage people to approach things a bit unconventionally, which would be a great thing.

10/27/2015 05:39 PMPosted by rogue4ever
Anything "daily" is bad. Why am I forced to play everyday?

What if I can't play that day or I can't do all 5 runs that day or I have to quit in the middle of the rift because whatever real life reasons?

Another fair objection, for which a potential solution has actually already been implemented for WoW. It's possible to expand the flexibility of the system in the same way they allow you to cap your weekly currency in a single day if you have a long enough session. This might demand the RGRotD to be generated on a weekly basis, though, just to ensure everyone will be dealing with a consistent competition ground. 5 is also a tentative number. It could be more, or it could be less, depending on what's deemed appropriate during testing to make it somewhat fair for everyone. 3 might sound like a good compromise? You'd still have a first "test" run, plus a couple of solid attempts, all doable within less than an hour, which is usually reasonable for any average person.

10/27/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Shurgosa
so then how can I support your idea of streamlined rifts while maintaining my desire for this "non-repetitive" almost wacky gameplay, if your rift idea is meant to strip away the randomness of the rift?

Keep in mind the rifts would still be generated randomly, albeit with more strict and higher standardized parameters to ensure appropriate challenge.

10/27/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Shurgosa
As you shape and reshape your ideal ranked rift...the players would quickly adapt because the tools with which the devs would allow rifts to be reshaped, would only allow rifts to be shaped somewhat inward....

There's no room for fishing with this system. You either deal with the generated rift, or lose ranking points for not succeeding/quitting on them. This is why I mentioned adaptability as a concrete criteria to award ranking points. If you're the sort of guy that just wants to fish for a perfect rift, your "ability" to compete will be severely hindered by the fact you can't adapt. If you're the type of guy that loves to take the bull by the horns, however, the system is intended to reward your tenacity for not squirming out of particularly difficult rifts.

10/27/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Shurgosa
it looks like a math equation; As the players adapt their characters to the ranked rift the players would all begin to move the same have the same skills and wear the same items, as was best suited for the rift.....and due to how painfully limited the variety of types of obstacles are in this game, I would fear that your ranked rift idea might never get off the ground only becasue the atmosphere is so thick and cumbersome....

That's already happening due to the awfully rigid itemization model they've introduced with sets. However, this is why I've suggested additional conditions to "spice it up" a bit. Stuff you'd not find on regular GRs like wandering Ubers, "packs of elite packs" instead of the standard 2-3 you sometimes face in regular rifts, global debuffs and augmented environmental hazards.

Yes, there will inevitably be more adaptable builds than others, but that will always be the case in a game like this. However, it would still take a lot of actual skill to overcome, just like the old inferno did in vanilla before it was nerfed into lameness. This means leaderboard spots would be awared not as a product of sheer luck by looking for that golden rift full of easy monsters, but as a product of the player's resolve to overcome even the toughest challenges.

10/27/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Shurgosa
Am i rambling?? I just feel that your idea is purhaps inadvertently suffocated under the weight of boring items and boring threats and damage types...and any notion of streamlining a rift and reducing its chance at weaker enemies and drawing from a smaller pool of more threatening ones...

It's a fair observation. There's only so much that can be produced with the existing content, but mixing it up a bit more can't be that bad. And yeah, I'd like them to filter out the dumb easy monsters from ranked play. There's no reason why the easiest monsters should yield a prestigious spot. Imho, if you're not able to demonstrate you're the best against the toughest guys and the toughest situations, then you're not the best at all. The current setup is as fake as it gets.

10/27/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Shurgosa
without having a way to VARY those monsters ....I wince a bit thinking about what might happen...

Variance will still occur day after day. Think about it this way. We'd be replacing the "absurdly easy" conditions for some "tough as nails" crazy ones, just to increase the level of the competition while preserving the mandatory consistency for any meaningful and respectable competition. Inevitably, you might find some rifts easier than others. It's just impossible to have a perfect weapon against everyone given the different nature of each class and even each build. But that's even more of a reason to support long term consistency, rather than ranking with a single golden GR of easiness, I'd expect average rankings to reflect the actual adaptability of a competitor.
bumpa
+1
we have a Thread about Daily Grifts in EU/Germany too, if u wanna take a look...
http://eu.battle.net/d3/de/forum/topic/16466816555
10/28/2015 09:35 AMPosted by Fetznfritz
+1
we have a Thread about Daily Grifts in EU/Germany too, if u wanna take a look...
http://eu.battle.net/d3/de/forum/topic/16466816555

I'd love to check it, but unfortunately I don't speak German and google translate won't work for some reason :P.
Ok, i try my best^^ hope u can read&understand ;)

First i have to say its not my idea but i like and support it.

For us is the key to bring back fun and some different competition to D3.
We are tired to run only for Paragons. For Rankings you need a lot of fishing, right map & moptype.
Start and leave, repeat repeat and repeat... we are bored of that.

The gameplay today can stay as ist is. The DailyGrift (DG) should be an additional Option.

And what is it? here we go...
The DG is a random created Rift and for all the same for one Day. Everey day we get a new rnd created DG. U can start at Tier what u want 1-200, of course u must clear it in time.
The Rankings can be a 5(or 10,20) grift average or your additional succeeded grift score.
Ranked Players "win" a litte Price, a cube of mats or db for example.
A Solo-Player rank 100 get the same Price as a 4Men Team Rank 100.
Rankings will be reseted every day.
We devide 2 Groups (or 3) for DG, Para 1-1000 and 1000+.

With DG we have no fishing, lower Para have a Chance for Rankings too, and it force a little bit taktical playing (pull all to conduit&power) because after first run u know where are the pylons, mops and what elite to skip etc...

HF
Fantastic idea! I definitely support this!
Interesting idea, I proposed something similar where grift leaderboards are based on specific grifts.

Regular grifts don't apply to leaderboards at all and you have seperate grifts only for rankings.

Or another suggestion where you must have at least a 60% completion rating for your grift to count towards rankings.

Check out my list here too:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19288208834
push, this Needs to get some attention from Blizzard
Bump, love it. I think this could push off item use as well (azure wrath or immunity amulet). Sort of like sideboard for those that played MtG.
@Gr8, and what are you doing with the Paragon Botmonsters? They will go to P-lvl 3300-3500 in S4.
I hate Para lvl farming, just bored of that! I wanna farm Mats and Gear. For this is DG much better because of reset every day and 2 or 3 "leages".

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