I just don't understand why people still prefer...

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10/28/2015 09:12 PMPosted by GroundZero
Nostalgia's fault..


That would cover it, nearly everyone that compares it were expecting D3 to be very similar to D2 and were disappointed when it didn't live up to their expectations
10/28/2015 09:12 PMPosted by GroundZero
I've been asking this question for a while now and still didn't get a satisfying answer other than pvp which is not that important for now, and won't talk about what Diablo 3 could be as it is not the topic that i'm really looking for but I end up by this conclusion which is...

Nostalgia's fault..

I tend to avoid D2 discussions now but seeing as you are new to it I felt I'd speak out.

Actually it is because some still make a $$ by playing it. If Blizzard were to add boa and d3's trade to D2 it would quickly die an honorable death. I played it for many years and enjoyed it but I cannot see myself going back to it now. D3 has eclipsed it in now. I have no use for the offline or trade that attracts others, including the 3rd party sites, the hackers and the dupers.

Many will say it had a better skill system. However I believe this was simply because the game is easier and they equate that to being more powerful. Actually all it is is max 2 skills, them max the skills listed in those two's tooltip. Get enough strength to equip the gear you want, enough dex to block and put the rest in vitality. That is pretty much the game.

With D3 2.3 and Kanai's Cube I see little if anything at all D2 has to offer. Some say runewords but I believe that our current skill system with the runes and Kanai's Cube make runewords a dead topic.

D3 will never have offline or any more trade than it currently offers so those are also dead topics. We do not have multiple accounts like d2 did nor named games. Both these were exploited literally to death. I do have D2 on my HD but that is because When I used to post about it I wanted a way to verify what I was posting. I remember the last time I logged in. Before I could talk to the first quest giver I had a screenfull of spam.

LoD would buy you the latest runewords of which the better ones are ladder only. I cannot say I'd waste the money on it now though. While it did improve D2 greatly the play style and basis of the game remain pretty much the same.

This thread is moot though. Simply because D2 still has people here that will tell you it is better while they are playing D3. If Blizzard rezzed the cash cow in D3 I believe they would never look back. It is as if they tout D2 simply because it is a way to ding Blizzard. Many will never forgive Blizzard for slaughtering the cash cow and killing the golden goose.

I guess today people would compare D2 LoD to D3 RoS 2.3.
I pretty much can agree with your initial feelings about D2. It was a great game in it's day but that day is long gone.

BTW all these d2- d3 threads do is stir the pot of hate , this is why I avoid them. Let people say what they want I won't be replying to this thread anymore. After all the years there is really nothing left to say. You could buy lod and then compare them for yourself. At the end of the day whatever you decide is all that really matters.
As i'm reading the forum about some D2 topics, I slowly come to the understanding of why people still like D2. There are some subtil aspects about D2 which I agree that it could have been great to see in D3 but are very little in comparison to the overall. Perhaps I was referring myself a bit too much about the overall of the D2 game like talents and skills et cetera in comparison with D3 and people opinions in general and simply missed some subtle facts about Diablo 2. Well, I still think emotions are a damageable factor. But yeah, slowly I see why the Vets still talk about Diablo 2 nowadays.
D3 has improved a lot since its release, with ROS and patches, but you know the quote "The first impression is the last impression"?

D3 was a really, really bad game for a some time, with RMAH, AH, the old loot system, servers that did not support the amount of players trying to connect and play...) and one bad decision after another by JW. Other factors did not help, like bad plot, no end game, killing Cain and so on. It really seemed like they released a really early beta version and not the final product.

And D2LOD is a superior game than D3 and I will point out why (that's only my opinion, but some might agree):

- Play offline - I travel a lot for work and I have a toddler at home... having to be connected all the time is really inconvenient and in some locations the connection is really bad...

- Plot - Both in D1 and D2, you could really enjoy the plot and the cinematic... in D3, not so much...

- Random maps - in D2, you could play a lot and kind of feel that you were exploring a new map... that was not true in D3 for a while and even now, there's a lot of room for improvement (the instant I enter a cave or other map, I now right away where the keywarden will likely be, or where the door to the next level will be located...

- Build diversity - in D2, you could play different builds for every class and kind of decide what skill you would improve and how much points for each skill... in D3, you play the build Blizz decides for each patch (compare players profiles... EVERYONE plays almost the same builds with the same skills, items and so...)

- Items - In D2, you could finish the game using whatever gear you wanted... you were not dependable of on specific set and one specific legendary... you wanted to gear you hero with sets? no problem... the same hero with only legendary items? Also cool! In D3, armor must be sets, rings must be either FNR or COE and Obsidian, weapon and the rest must be the ones with the specific legendary attribute (like Yangs or Calamity)...

- Horadric Cube + Runes + Runewords and charms - In D2 it was really cool to farm for runes, try to discover runewords and so on... Now D3 has Kanai Cube and legendary gems, hope they improve it.

Well, as I said, that's only my opinion, but I hope I was able you some understanding / perspective why a lot of players still prefer D2 over D3... well here is 1 am, so time to go :-)
10/28/2015 10:11 PMPosted by Petrus
D3 was a really, really bad game for a some time, with RMAH, AH, the old loot system


This is the reason I hardly played D3 when first released. If they had not got rid of the old loot system I would not of gotten RoS and would not be playing now
It's nostalgic. A timeless game is a timeless game, but Diablo 2 is not one of those games since it has a lot of problem, and it's too slow pace for today's gaming taste, on top of a lot of repetitive time consuming which people wouldn't have mind back in the day. Games like Heroes of Might and Magic 3 are timeless due to their mechanics, setting, pacing, storyline that people who are into those would can enjoy at any time.
Let's leave dated graphics and modern QOL features aside for a fair basis of comparison.

1) Player-driven progression. D3 fanboys love to bash D2's skill-tree for all its flaws but it still remains a fact that progression wasn't completely at the mercy of RNG and you can reasonably expect your favorite skill to hold its weight if you invest in it. "Player-driven" is the key word here. I don't mind D3 evolving from the need for a skill tree, but some sort of effort-reward mechanism must be in place. Skill proficiency, skill gems whatever. The Paragon system is slapped together sloppily to appease the scores of angry fans and hope they shut up.

2) Less RNG. You'll jump for joy when a rare item finally dropped in D2. D3? Not so much. Dropping the item is only half the battle won. And then you identify it and hope it's ancient, have an acceptable damage range and rolled the right stats. I've salvaged all my Star of Azkaranth except one for the Cube.

3) Less insulting to intelligence. Mobs in D2 have resistances and immunity and thus dual elemental builds are the norm and players have to switch things up in response to specific situations. Since mobs don't have varying resistances or immunity in D3, you simply have to pick the skill which gives the most DPS and spam them ad infinitum.

Main stats are reduced to being class-specific DPS/mitigation boosts and there's zero incentive to choose a different main stat. D3 fanboys love to bash D2's stat system, stating a "prerequisite amount of Dexterity for max block" and "fulfilling gear requirements and the rest in Vitality", but again with all its flaws (which should have been improved on in D3, not completely scrapped, as with the skill tree), it still remains a fact that it offers players some form of choice. In D3, main stat is simply redundant and often blamed for being a stash space killer for having to keep 3 copies of the same item.

I could go on with more examples, but I think that's enough to show how dumbed down and homogenized D3 has become.

Some of my other pet peeves...

1) Unavoidable damage. They justified the decision by stating that ranged classes cannot simply sit back and relax. There must be some other way to introduce challenge and bridge the gap between melee and ranged other than unavoidable damage and 30% innate damage reduction for melee classes. I mean... We're talking about elite game designers in Blizzard and I would forgive such simplistic decision-making if D3 was a first year college game project.

2) "Difficulty" = Bigger numbers. No, it's simply a gear check. Add monster ambushes, traps etc. in GRs which separates the good players with situational awareness from the bad. Grade how well players do for each GR (avoiding affixes, aiding team mates etc.) instead of a rudimentary timer which further enforces the need for YOLO DPS.

3) 6p damage multiplier sets. #1 offender and completely goes against the spirit of... no, not just the Diablo franchise, but the entire ARPG genre. Esp. excruciatingly terrible recently since they decided to tie the sets to specific skills, which means players are forced to play skills they might not like in order to progress.

In response to the inevitable fanboy's retort of "play what you like instead of caring about the leaderboards, you scrub", Paragon levels and legendary gems are the end game and no one likes being labelled a "noob" or relegated to playing in noob levels alone simply because their favorite skills lack damage of a few zeros at the end.
10/28/2015 08:29 PMPosted by SnowViper
Titan Quest rocked :D


Enjoyed it (should go back in replay it) It does have something (still haven't figured out what that something is) that I don't like about it.
We have some interesting point of view in this thread..! Thanks for the enlightenment.
diablo 2 on its own was decent, but its story lacked pieces. the expansion d2lod was much better. it introduced new classes, runes, runewords, charms, jewels, and much more. the expansion also brought in a whole new act, and it was just amazing. i still am fond of D2lod although sometimes its hard to run on windows 10, but anyway its a great game, its a grind and its tougher getting awesome items, but the challenge is there. the only problem is the choppy gameplay, teleport/pathing issues, and some other things.

overall its still an amazing game.
I agree OP.

I played D2 way back when.

I stopped playing after a few months.

After seeing all the nostalgia, I repurchased the game to try it again.

Couldn't play if for 10 minutes.

D2 is a good computer game, but the combat doesn't come close to D3.

Why people act like D2 is so wonderful? Wow you got me, I don't get it........
Diablo 2 is the reason why millions of people purchased Diablo 3, so regardless of which game is better in your opinion, don't insult it.

I can't deny that the game has nostalgic value to me, either. As a child, I used to sit on my parents' bed and look over my father's shoulder to watch him play Diablo 2. I later picked up the game shortly before the launch of Diablo 3, and those were honestly the best god-knows-how-long I spent playing a video game.
maybe because you could play how you wanted (no op 6 piece sets that buff a certain skill for 13000% multiplayer)

you could trade so you had a way to deal with rng

you could play pvp

there are many amazing mods for this game

etc etc. its damn good for a game that came out 15 years ago. the devs of the succesor should be ashamed.

in current d3 you are completly equipped within 2 days and then farm endless paragon with xp gear characters and no character progression / rpg features what so ever. GG gamedesign.
Diablo 3 is basically prettier version of diablo 2 in simple mindless mode. No depth, no heart, no nothing. It's like wow.... But more simple.
get LOD
10/28/2015 07:47 PMPosted by GroundZero
10/28/2015 07:27 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
This is exactly why you will never get it.


I doubt that my opinion will change with one more act and two more class with diablo 2, but perhaps i'm missing something..!

10/28/2015 07:27 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Don't go in expecting a next gen masterpiece, because that's just foolish.


Yeah, I compare this statement with nostalgia, both are really damageable to our expectancies and nowadays arts..


uh... duh? what exactly do you expect to achieve? esp by skipping LOD?

Here's all you need to know.

D2 - one of the greatest ,impactful, and beloved games of all time.
D3 - lolz. any forum user here shouldn't need much explanation.
Ya fvck those people for having their own opinion and preference and enjoying what they are doing.
10/29/2015 01:24 PMPosted by SirTerror
Why people act like D2 is so wonderful? Wow you got me, I don't get it........


I'll admit D3's combat is fluid, responsive and feels good. But D3 is lacking almost everything that made D2 great in other areas. Combat alone doesn't make a great game and neither does graphics.
What D2 and other games such as Titan quest have over D3 is class diversity.

In both games there are dozens of character skill and item combinations that are end game viable. The Paladin for example can be build as the classic zealot, and then equipped as a Griefadin, Schaeferdin, Eletemplar, Riftadin or Auradin. Did I miss any? I probably did.
Titan quest was the same. Several skill trees you could mix and match and come up with all sorts of builds and then define further with the items.

By comparison, D3 has half a dozen viable builds. At best, one or two builds per class. The item load out must be exactly the same for the build to work. Yet, D3 has more skills and items available than D2, just that D3 is loaded with useless never used skills and items where as nearly every skill and most of the items in D2 was useful.
Good example is the D3 Barbarian's shield passive. I have a barbarian that uses a shield. Probably the only one on the server, (lol) and I don't use that passive, that's how broken and crap D3's skill system is.

D3 could have been an absolute classic, better than it's predecessors and heads and shoulders above the rest. If only the Developers would balance the skills and classes instead of this roster of overpowering/nerfing the classes every season.

Can you imagine what this game would be like if you could rock up at a GR game and there was a wizard, sader or a WD and when you inspected them, you'd see something different and think "cool" rather than heading for the vote kick button?

Let us play the builds and characters that we want. not what we are being dictated too. That, was the magic of D2/LoD and it's the magic that D3 has lost.
10/28/2015 06:58 PMPosted by GroundZero
Diablo2 over Diablo3 Vanilla and current states of D3.. Yesterday I bought Diablo 2 without LoD because I never played diablo 2 before and wanted see how it is and want to understand why people prefer it to D3 but I just can't see how and why.. So, why would people want Diablo 3 as D2 since it is already almost the same and better?

PvP..? lolll...?


I can’t really tell from your posts what it is that turned you off about the game, so I’ll just answer with my own perspective. I’ll try not to double dip on the points that’ve already been made. Take from it what you will.

Incoming wall of text.


Atmosphere

You probably hear a lot about how D2 fans think D3 is too colorful, too cartoony, too WoW-like (I’m looking at you, shoulder armor). Heck, the D3 team put in Whimsyshire to make fun of the people complaining about this. D2 had a very dark and gothic atmosphere to it, achieved through its musical score, the use of light radius, and yes, actual dark places. Was the whole game like that? Of course not. There’s deserts, mountains, and a sparkly magic labyrinth. Let’s also not forget enemies turning gaudy colors if you poison or debuff them.

But it’s a style that’s iconic to the series, and right from our first looks we could see the game was brighter and more welcoming than expected. I understand you didn’t play very much of D2 (I wonder, then, how that affects your opinion), but check out some videos of Tal Rasha’s Tomb and Hell to see what I’m talking about. The D3 team did make an honest effort to return to this style with the expansion, and whenever I get into a nice dark rift I can’t help but feel they really listened to feedback regarding this.

Gear

Again, you probably know the criticism here. D3 gear is shallow, people will say. Armor is main stat, vitality, resist, then crit hit/damage or resource/cooldown reduction. Weapons are main stat, vit, damage, more damage, crit, life on hit/kill. Are the legendary affixes helping this? Yes, and I applaud the work being done there.

But D2 had dozens upon dozens of modifiers. Skill boosts (even if you didn’t have the skill), Off-class skills, spell effects on hit/kill/being hit/dying, auras. The gear dynamic was also very different, as the game didn’t revolve around max level. Weapon damage wasn’t king. Add in all the countless jewels and runewords and you’ve got an intimidatingly in-depth item field.

Build Diversity

I urge you to look up builds for all the various classes in D2. In D3 builds are inextricably linked to set bonuses; there’s no getting around it whatsoever. While this isn’t necessarily bad, we’re fundamentally limited in a way that doesn’t leave much (in some cases, any) wiggle room. People will boast about billions of builds, but in practice it’s about 3 per class, give or take. D2’s builds per class are much higher, and more so when you factor in pvp builds.

Now, is that to say objectively powerful weapons like Windforce didn’t exist? Were runewords a perfectly flexible and customizable playground? Of course not. But for D2 fans there’s a good bit of depth there they haven’t found from D3.

Story

I seem to have misplaced the 40 page thesis we all keep at our desks detailing in excruciating depth all the faults of the story. But don’t worry, I’ll pen you your own copy and mail it to you. Kidding not kidding.

Ultimately, it doesn’t seem like you played very much. It doesn’t even sound like you made it up to/far into Act II. While I certainly wouldn’t say you need to buy a game you don’t think you’ll enjoy, I do have to wonder how much weight your opinion really carries having not gotten very far in just the base game.

I do see you taking others’ opinions into account and doing some reading, and I appreciate that. Is nostalgia a factor? Of course. Does D3 look prettier and play better? I think so. I also think we’re not going to get anywhere if you say people only like D2 because of nostalgia and I say people only like D3 because it’s dumbed down. We’re all fans here.

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