Misc PTR Testing new Stuff

Wizard
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12/16/2015 05:32 AMPosted by ximae
but im pretty sure the 4.5x multi on blades actually outdamages a 1.2 multi on blades + orbit.


Only if you assume that arcane orbit still only goes off once per second. As soon as you introduce it blowing up at around 2x the expected rate then infinite depths pulls ahead of fragment, at least before you account for fast bane of the striken stacking.

Also, what does your shield comparison look like exactly for taking into account the DR from infinite dpeths vs extra shields of fragment?

Were you assuming use of shielding bracers? what about deflection?
12/16/2015 05:49 AMPosted by BDF
Also, what does your shield comparison look like exactly for taking into account the DR from infinite dpeths vs extra shields of fragment?


the numbers i was using :

ID: (1.54 aps x 1.5 (shame)) x 1,000,000 hp x 0.04 (barrier blades) x 2 (shielding bracer) = 184800 shields/s

+ lvl 80 grizzard = 90,000 lps + 184800 = 274800 shields+life/s

Fragment: (1.54 x 1.5 (shame) x 1.5 (fragment)) x 1,000,000 x 0.08 (bb+ deflection) x 2 (shield bracer) = 554400 shields/s

Simplicity strenght = (1.54x1.5x1.5) x 1,000,000 x 0.02 = 69300 lps

554400 + 69300 = 623700 shields + life/s

623700/274800 = 2.27x more shields

which is just about the same as what 60% dr would make the shields better.
What about eHP? Galvanizing is worth a whole lot more with 60% dmg reduction.

Not to mention how having a higher fraction of your recovery being dependent on being in melee range might not be worth as much as having it done passively.
12/15/2015 10:17 PMPosted by Childe
Yeah, I just went based on the first whole percent that hits the breakpoint, since there's no fractional IAS%. The APS breakpoints are definitely very slightly different but that's the correct %IAS you'll need to hit each BP (assuming you also have 7% on-weapon - the % IAS listed in the left column is just off-weapon IAS).


Well, fractional IAS is possible with paragon levels but that's irrelevant for most advanced players who are over 800 anyways. APS tables are still more useful though because then you're not bound by only one weapon speed (1.4 w/7 ias) and you can just lookup what your APS is with any weapon on the table.

Here's a generated APS table for SB w/ Fragment & Shame
Min APS - Max APS -> SB APS - fpa
4.999994 - 6.249992 -> 15 - 4
4.166662 - 4.999993 -> 12 - 5
3.571425 - 4.166661 -> 10 - 6
3.124997 - 3.571424 -> 8.571428571 - 7
2.777775 - 3.124996 -> 7.5 - 8
2.499997 - 2.777774 -> 6.666666667 - 9
2.272725 - 2.499996 -> 6 - 10
2.083331 - 2.272724 -> 5.454545455 - 11
1.923075 - 2.083330 -> 5 - 12
1.785713 - 1.923074 -> 4.615384615 - 13
1.666665 - 1.785712 -> 4.285714286 - 14
1.562499 - 1.666664 -> 4 - 15
1.470587 - 1.562498 -> 3.75 - 16
1.388888 - 1.470586 -> 3.529411765 - 17
1.315788 - 1.388887 -> 3.333333333 - 18
1.249999 - 1.315787 -> 3.157894737 - 19
1.190475 - 1.249998 -> 3 - 20
1.136363 - 1.190474 -> 2.857142857 - 21
1.086956 - 1.136362 -> 2.727272727 - 22
1.041666 - 1.086955 -> 2.608695652 - 23
0.999999 - 1.041665 -> 2.5 - 24
0.961538 - 0.999998 -> 2.4 - 25


I've only confirmed a BP between 1.778 and 1.792 so far. To be sure the forumula is correct, I should narrow that window and also target a second BP for confirmation.

The formula can also be simplied to:
60/RoundDown[56.24993/(APS*2.25)]

-dolynick
Ooh, I was pretty close to the next breakpoint in that youtube vid.

Wonder if I could convince a witch doctor + sader or monk to give me attack speed in town to record.

Or maybe just frenzy shrine
12/16/2015 06:38 AMPosted by BDF
What about eHP? Galvanizing is worth a whole lot more with 60% dmg reduction.


yeah ur 1m hp will be worth more with extra dr. so will gw. Thing is i really dont find a slot for gw as im using illu, ua, arcane dinamo and audacity.

but yeah i am able to facetank gr 80 with the ID setup, which i have actually tested, where as I havent had the chance to test with fragment yet. the numbers seem viable though. its ljust more sustain against more dr.

12/16/2015 06:38 AMPosted by BDF
Not to mention how having a higher fraction of your recovery being dependent on being in melee range might not be worth as much as having it done passively.


If you mean grizzard both can use it, im just thinking SS would be more beneficial dpswise while still giving quite good health recovery.
12/16/2015 08:07 AMPosted by ximae
If you mean grizzard both can use it, im just thinking SS would be more beneficial dpswise while still giving quite good health recovery.


Was talking more about how ramp-up of your shields with blades takes longer than the damage reduction from infinite orb.

Healing being reactive rather than Damage Reduction being proactive.
yeah dr is proactive but its also based on stacks and hitting stuff with eb... u dont always start a fight with the 4 stacks up i can tell you that from experience.

There is also the 3s shield stacking buffer if you dont take damage ( halo ) which is quite larger with fragment and the fact that if ur not stacking any cdr you will have larger vit thus even larger shields...

Each setup has it pros and cons but i think they are fairly close defensively.

but anyways, just mingled abit with ur spreadsheet, which u had already nicely prepeared for what i wasgona calc :D, and it is actually lower dps than infinite depth.... calculating at 1 orbit blast/s.

probably not worth it then. The only thing that could make the fragment setup better is if the higher aps makes the orbit extra balls bug happen more often.
Oh BDF I tested the Orb Of infinite depth stuff this morning. So you can update the op.



* Confirmation that damage bonus is indeed multiplicative other damage buff categories

it is multiplicative, damage went from 268k force weapon buffed sb hits to 322k.

each stack was additive with itself.


Confirmation that damage buff affects ALL your damage


yes was buffing my spectral blade and arcane orbit damage

number of individual enemies hit per cast? ( 1 cast hits 4 enemies, do you get 4 stacks?)
** number of casts that hit at least one enemy


they are determined by cast that hits, doesnt matter if u hit 1 or 10 mobs

Do stacks expire individually or does timer reset? That is, is it like flame blades or like tals (6)?

timer resets. i was using chain reaction that would grant me 3 stacks and there is a timer over the skill that just resets when u get the 4th stack and onward hits.
12/16/2015 09:44 AMPosted by ximae
Oh BDF I tested the Orb Of infinite depth stuff this morning. So you can update the op.


I saw, but I test stuff myself as well before adding it.
12/16/2015 09:37 AMPosted by ximae
but anyways, just mingled abit with ur spreadsheet, which u had already nicely prepeared for what i wasgona calc :D, and it is actually lower dps than infinite depth.... calculating at 1 orbit blast/s.

probably not worth it then. The only thing that could make the fragment setup better is if the higher aps makes the orbit extra balls bug happen more often.


What's the difference in RG takedown time (Stricken stacking rate)? That would be the other major difference...
You guys really got excited testing new stuffs and changes producing a very good documentation. grats.

Simple question: Still Elemental Exposure being additive debuff? all debuffs remain additive?

Is there any CC changes that can allow zdps wiz maybe freezing stuffs?
12/16/2015 07:14 AMPosted by dolynick
12/15/2015 10:17 PMPosted by Childe
Yeah, I just went based on the first whole percent that hits the breakpoint, since there's no fractional IAS%. The APS breakpoints are definitely very slightly different but that's the correct %IAS you'll need to hit each BP (assuming you also have 7% on-weapon - the % IAS listed in the left column is just off-weapon IAS).


Well, fractional IAS is possible with paragon levels but that's irrelevant for most advanced players who are over 800 anyways. APS tables are still more useful though because then you're not bound by only one weapon speed (1.4 w/7 ias) and you can just lookup what your APS is with any weapon on the table.

Here's a generated APS table for SB w/ Fragment & Shame
Min APS - Max APS -> SB APS - fpa
4.999994 - 6.249992 -> 15 - 4
4.166662 - 4.999993 -> 12 - 5
3.571425 - 4.166661 -> 10 - 6
3.124997 - 3.571424 -> 8.571428571 - 7
2.777775 - 3.124996 -> 7.5 - 8
2.499997 - 2.777774 -> 6.666666667 - 9
2.272725 - 2.499996 -> 6 - 10
2.083331 - 2.272724 -> 5.454545455 - 11
1.923075 - 2.083330 -> 5 - 12
1.785713 - 1.923074 -> 4.615384615 - 13
1.666665 - 1.785712 -> 4.285714286 - 14
1.562499 - 1.666664 -> 4 - 15
1.470587 - 1.562498 -> 3.75 - 16
1.388888 - 1.470586 -> 3.529411765 - 17
1.315788 - 1.388887 -> 3.333333333 - 18
1.249999 - 1.315787 -> 3.157894737 - 19
1.190475 - 1.249998 -> 3 - 20
1.136363 - 1.190474 -> 2.857142857 - 21
1.086956 - 1.136362 -> 2.727272727 - 22
1.041666 - 1.086955 -> 2.608695652 - 23
0.999999 - 1.041665 -> 2.5 - 24
0.961538 - 0.999998 -> 2.4 - 25


I've only confirmed a BP between 1.778 and 1.792 so far. To be sure the forumula is correct, I should narrow that window and also target a second BP for confirmation.

The formula can also be simplied to:
60/RoundDown[56.24993/(APS*2.25)]

-dolynick
Technically true with the 0.5% IAS but it's barely even relevant for sub-800 as every 4/8 Paragon you have the option to round it back out to a whole %.

The two kinds of charts are useful for different purposes. The type of chart you have above sets an absolute in terms of how the game functions and is very good for understanding the mechanics. However, the other kind is, I would argue, more useful to the average player who needs to figure out how much IAS% to stack, without having to calculate out where any given IAS% will land them on the breakpoints. It would be useful to have one with 0% on-weapon IAS and 5% and 6% on-weapon IAS as well so people can see where to aim for those setups, but I wanted to start with the optimal case.

Also, to whoever said it may get capped at 5.00 even with Shame & Fragment, that would make me very sad... having the option to gear differently is exciting (high-IAS, low-CHC with Broken Promises, Shame and Fragment). The game needs builds that push in different gearing directions and this could be one (along with Thorns Crusader and - if it gets more support down the line - Action Shot DH, which wants movement speed bonuses up the wazoo and low CHC). Right now there's an incentive for aiming high in IAS. If it gets capped then you only need a very marginal amount such that it doesn't really affect gearing.
updated OP with orb of infinite depth
Does LoH work with WoW extra Blasts?
12/15/2015 06:44 PMPosted by dolynick
60/RoundUp(60/[60/RoundDown(56.24993/APS*2.25)])


Do you mean to use a set of brackets around 'APS*2.25' ? I'm getting weird answers by following standard order of operations.
12/17/2015 11:17 AMPosted by BDF
Do you mean to use a set of brackets around 'APS*2.25' ? I'm getting weird answers by following standard order of operations.


It shouldn't matter, but Excel does do some odd things with certain equations. I didn't really write that equation as the Excel version. Brackets around aps*2.25 should be fine and might solve the issue.
Quick question, does DMO DR stack? Not with multiple of your own Slow Times, but from another DMO Wizard?

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