[GUIDE] TalOrbit – T13 Speed Rift/Bounty

Wizard
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Saw OP profile. Are are damage not worth it anymore for arcane orbit builds? He even gets APOC on off-hand over are damage?
I must try this... I finished the S7 stash tab and came back to playing with my NS wizard. I really enjoy watching everything blow up with the Woh EB build, but I have been trying to find a version of it that works for me.

I initially copied a build called the Supernova, which was just like Quin69's Tal6Fb4 build and used the goldwrap+hoarder. It's fine for running T13 rifts or bounties, but I wanted to run really fast GR50s or GR60s so that I could level gems quickly too.

I've been playing around with a lot of combinations of things, namely Nemesis, APD, Orb of Infinite Depth, Aquila, Cindercoat, Hexing Pants, Nilfurs, etc. Just all kinds of stuff. You name it, I probably tried some combination of it.

I'm narrowing in on the combination of speed/damage/toughness that works for me, but I'm still not quite happy with it. I also hate switching belts and rings every time I want to go from Rifts to Grifts... I really want a hybrid that can fill both needs. I'm not pushing Grifts, I just want to go straight from T13 Rifts to GR60 without switching gear or playstyle.

I'm thinking I want to try something like this build instead.
09/26/2016 02:05 PMPosted by Cryme
I must try this... I finished the S7 stash tab and came back to playing with my NS wizard. I really enjoy watching everything blow up with the Woh EB build, but I have been trying to find a version of it that works for me.

I initially copied a build called the Supernova, which was just like Quin69's Tal6Fb4 build and used the goldwrap+hoarder. It's fine for running T13 rifts or bounties, but I wanted to run really fast GR50s or GR60s so that I could level gems quickly too.

I've been playing around with a lot of combinations of things, namely Nemesis, APD, Orb of Infinite Depth, Aquila, Cindercoat, Hexing Pants, Nilfurs, etc. Just all kinds of stuff. You name it, I probably tried some combination of it.

I'm narrowing in on the combination of speed/damage/toughness that works for me, but I'm still not quite happy with it. I also hate switching belts and rings every time I want to go from Rifts to Grifts... I really want a hybrid that can fill both needs. I'm not pushing Grifts, I just want to go straight from T13 Rifts to GR60 without switching gear or playstyle.

I'm thinking I want to try something like this build instead.


It's a full offensive build. No 60% dr from OoID, no 100% shield bonus from bracer and no Halo/APD defense combo. The build seem to relied fully on teleport to avoid damage rather than face tanking stuff in T13.
Ha, you're not kidding, that will take some getting used to.

I sucked at first, but then I started to get the hang of it.

Thank you Vox, this is definitely not a build idea I would have ever thought of on my own.

I ran some bounties with this and absolutely loved the mobility. It's been a really long time since I ran an Aether Walker build. I don't have a Shame of Delsere yet and I had a bit of trouble keeping my AP up while porting around so I went back to my Woh/EB build for running G/Rifts until I can get my hands on that item. I don't have an ancient AW or Trium yet either but damage didn't seem to be an issue since I was just doing TX.

I'm still super clunky at this playstyle though, it will take me a while to get some better control.

So I had Electrocute:Surge of Power on my Left Mouse Button (LMB) and Teleport:Calamity on my right (RMB). I was holding down Shift+LMB, and then clicking RMB to bounce around, so no walking was going on at all. Then when I landed in a group of mobs I would pop Nova+EB:Flash and start spamming AO:AO until obliterated (which usually only took 1 or 2 AO:AO's on TX). Is that generally the right approach?

It is really weird to do that after spending so many hours running around the screen spamming EB:CR at a very high speed and only using Teleport occasionally.
09/07/2016 12:38 PMPosted by Squeezzy1
Do you have your orb set to auto cast (numlock) or are you manually casting it everytime you port to an enemy?

I ask bc the cd timing on it doesn't look like it is on a set pattern like it does when it is on autocast


I've never macro'd or numlocked.

You wouldn't want orb on auto cast because it is expensive and it does have (I'm guessing) about a 0.5 s cooldown. You want to trigger it (queue it) as you port into an elite or mass of mobs so it detonates immediately.

Most of farming is spent moving. You want to conserve AP while moving for teleport, skipping generator activations when they aren't needed. If you are activating orb all the time, you'll be moving much slower since you'll need to gen a bunch more.
09/24/2016 01:47 PMPosted by Djuntas
Is this the 1# speed farm build for T13 then or are there other builds :)

Tried out Archon firebird chantodo, didn't really seem that good.


There are different winners at different difficulties. The Post #1 build does well up through T13. The 'advanced' version focused on mobility (Post #2) does noticeably better through T11/12. Aorbit walker is great for consistently high dmg with high mobility.

Archon seems to be best at higher difficulties.

Below T10, I expect the fastest specs to be based on high AOE Pain Enhancer with max mobility (Walker, Cosmic Strand, Zodiac, Krelm, Wreathe, Boon, Zephyr, Illusionist, etc.). Most damage would come from Pain Enhancer triggered by Calamity (free PE, stun, zodiac trigger), Frozen Storm (free PE, decent AOE), Aorbit (no attack turn, zodiac trigger), and/or Apocolypse (high AOE, long duration). PE works at T10 as a primary dmg source, but that's really pushing it.
09/25/2016 05:34 AMPosted by Djuntas
Saw OP profile. Are are damage not worth it anymore for arcane orbit builds? He even gets APOC on off-hand over are damage?


I like APOC because it is mobility in most variants. AP maxes out quickly in packs resulting in fewer gen activations in transit afterwards.

Elite dmg or Arcane Orb Dmg would be nice alternatives.
09/26/2016 02:05 PMPosted by Cryme
I've been playing around with a lot of combinations of things, namely Nemesis, APD, Orb of Infinite Depth, Aquila, Cindercoat, Hexing Pants, Nilfurs, etc. Just all kinds of stuff. You name it, I probably tried some combination of it.


Sounds like a true wizard :)

09/26/2016 02:05 PMPosted by Cryme
I'm not pushing Grifts, I just want to go straight from T13 Rifts to GR60 without switching gear or playstyle.


Yes, this build fits that bill quite nicely. T13 Rifts, GR 65, T13 Bounties. Nothing really needs swapped (unless you are using Sage and want more power for GR/Bounty). Nemesis always on.
09/27/2016 10:55 AMPosted by Vox
Nemesis always on.
I was doing this in TX, but I'm going to start with ABB on T13 until I get the hang of it, and then I'll switch back to Nemesis.

Or... I may run RoRG in the cube (instead of CoE) and wear Shame in place of Tal belt, and then I can cube Nemesis and wear ABB. It is pretty glassy and I'm really bad at it still... I'll get the hang of it soon though.
09/26/2016 03:45 PMPosted by Neogeo
It's a full offensive build. No 60% dr from OoID, no 100% shield bonus from bracer and no Halo/APD defense combo. The build seem to relied fully on teleport to avoid damage rather than face tanking stuff in T13.


Originally, it was very offense-focused. I changed many things to be defensive to make it work effectively in T13. This is especially the case with Esoteric Alteration gem, which I would not go without for T13.

Dmg is mostly avoided by high burst dmg (kill before you get killed) and Calamity stun. Teleporting around helps immensely too, but you will still get hit a fair amt. This build starts to break down if there isn't enough DPS. Calamity stun starts to wear off and monster cc resist ramps up rapidly to ignore the stun.
09/26/2016 06:21 PMPosted by Cryme
So I had Electrocute:Surge of Power on my Left Mouse Button (LMB) and Teleport:Calamity on my right (RMB). I was holding down Shift+LMB, and then clicking RMB to bounce around, so no walking was going on at all. Then when I landed in a group of mobs I would pop Nova+EB:Flash and start spamming AO:AO until obliterated (which usually only took 1 or 2 AO:AO's on TX). Is that generally the right approach?


This works. However, you are likely losing some mobility by not using Force Move in the teleport gaps, letting up on LMB generators when they aren't needed.

Ultimately, depressing both Force Move and Force Standstill at same time will probably yield the best results. However, that is pretty hard without a lot of practice and impossible without suitably mapped keys. I have standstill on Space Bar and Force Move on 'G' to facilitate using both at same time (skills on A/S/D/F with F going to something passive or rarely used, like armor, so that I can keep force move depressed).

You should use whatever you are comfortable with. Don't go all hand-gumby because someone says you'll gain a second here and there.
09/27/2016 10:59 AMPosted by Cryme
09/27/2016 10:55 AMPosted by Vox
Nemesis always on.
I was doing this in TX, but I'm going to start with ABB on T13 until I get the hang of it, and then I'll switch back to Nemesis.

Or... I may run RoRG in the cube (instead of CoE) and wear Shame in place of Tal belt, and then I can cube Nemesis and wear ABB. It is pretty glassy and I'm really bad at it still... I'll get the hang of it soon though.


COE does not bring up your minimum dmg. It's not really good in speed farm specs. I would totally go with your rorg/nems idea. Nemesis is farming gold.
09/27/2016 11:15 AMPosted by Vox
COE does not bring up your minimum dmg. It's not really good in speed farm specs. I would totally go with your rorg/nems idea. Nemesis is farming gold.


Good point. I didn't have Shame yet, so I was wearing Nemesis and had ABB cubed. I was wearing 6 Tals so I didn't need RoRG at the time, so CoE seemed logical and it was listed in parentheses in post #1.

I would put Sages in there and use RoRG, but I wanted to get my build all set up to include Nemesis, Shame AND ABB. When I do that, I won't have room to drop another Tal's for Sages, so I didn't want to bother doing so now either.

When my skill or gear improve, hopefully I'll find ABB excessive, and then I can go back to wearing Nemesis, cubing Shame and RoRG and wearing Sages.

I tried to go without Shame but Spectral Blades (or Electrocute) just weren't keeping my AP up high enough.

Thank you for staying engaged in this thread and responding to all my crazy ideas. It's tough having to just theorycraft from the office when all I want to do is get home and try it out!
09/27/2016 11:02 AMPosted by Vox
09/26/2016 03:45 PMPosted by Neogeo
It's a full offensive build. No 60% dr from OoID, no 100% shield bonus from bracer and no Halo/APD defense combo. The build seem to relied fully on teleport to avoid damage rather than face tanking stuff in T13.


Originally, it was very offense-focused. I changed many things to be defensive to make it work effectively in T13. This is especially the case with Esoteric Alteration gem, which I would not go without for T13.

Dmg is mostly avoided by high burst dmg (kill before you get killed) and Calamity stun. Teleporting around helps immensely too, but you will still get hit a fair amt. This build starts to break down if there isn't enough DPS. Calamity stun starts to wear off and monster cc resist ramps up rapidly to ignore the stun.


I'm afraid it took more than one lgem and force armor to mitigate damage in T13. You have to play actively to avoid damage with this build. There are some build that can just facetank everything. Facetanking build usually have either APD or ABB or Aquila Cuirass if they utilised signature spell instead of spender. That's my point. I always thought Tal Rasha is the squishy set while DMO is the defensive set out of all none archon build.
Spec still works great for 2.4.2. I jumped right out of Vyr asap and into Tals and it was soooooo much better for farming.

I knocked out my stash space using this spec nearly exclusively, including solo T13 in under 5 min and solo GR 75 (where I used APD + Unity + FB2).

The 70-75 was tough due to survival, but much better than when I attempted with Delsere, which struggled with DPS.
This build sounds like what I´m looking for, a Tal Rasha build that clear 65.

I have one question though. You said to spam orb, but uses Arcane Dynamo. The old Delsere orbit build didn´t spam, it just casted while dynamo was up to preserve ap for survival. Is this right? You should still spam it (since you´re not using aquilas) and have AD passive?

edit: also, I just looked at your profile, you´re using mantle of channeling and no channel skills, well, besides electrocute that looks channeling but it´s not, and it´s not listed on mantle of channeling skills. Do you know something we don´t or using it just because there´s nothing better in the should slot?
Vox, it is an interesting build you have there. A question if you don't mind. Of all the sets, why do you pick Tal Rasha? Why not FB or DMO?
10/28/2016 01:26 PMPosted by Tubs
You should still spam it (since you´re not using aquilas) and have AD passive?


Spamming will almost always produce higher dps.

However, at very high APS/Arcane Dynamo stacking speed (with Arc Lightning, which stacks very fast), spamming will no longer be optimal for edps. This is because at a certain point, waiting fractions of a second for the +60% edps will be better than skipping every other 60% activation. I don't think this is a problem players need to worry about given typical APS and resource stress.

10/28/2016 01:26 PMPosted by Tubs
I just looked at your profile, you´re using mantle of channeling and no channel skills, well, besides electrocute that looks channeling but it´s not, and it´s not listed on mantle of channeling skills. Do you know something we don´t or using it just because there´s nothing better in the should slot?


Pay no heed. That was just my biggest EHP shoulder at the time.
11/14/2016 08:19 AMPosted by Hauw
Vox, it is an interesting build you have there. A question if you don't mind. Of all the sets, why do you pick Tal Rasha? Why not FB or DMO?


This is a farming spec.

Tal Rasha is essentially always at 3000% dmg bonus.

DMO is at 2000%, but only to those inside the bubble, and only after an attack turn. That is bad for farming, but works just fine for someone trying to break in T13, without regard to efficiency.

FB is the most abysmal farming spec ever invented. You need elites, you need to establish 3 stacks on the elites. You don't even get to 3000% once all conditions are met. Players have tried working in FB 4 into Tal Rasha 6 specs and FB 4 isn't even worthwhile with a 3000% bonus on all the time.
"This build sounds like what I´m looking for, a Tal Rasha build that clear 65."

Here is one that is close to that requirement, its a farm build for me and the FB set can do GR75.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Darkstar-2629/hero/84200385

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