The set dungeon are ... really good

General Discussion
Many threads about set dungeons boil down to the same arguments, why set dungeons suck. Here is a small list of my favorites. I have to gear down, not getting damage of a specific element is impossible, it's purely luck based.
I consider myself a casual player, not beeing interested in the Grift progression at all. But I'm playing Diablo 3 since release and experienced almost every stage this game has been in. Today I mastered my last set dungeon of all 24. In average it took me about 3-5 serious trys and never more than 12 trys. I didn't use guides. So I think, I am able to comment on most of the things on the list and tell you, why set dungeons are pretty good.

The design decision to not make the dungeon highly gear dependent is in fact a very good one. First of all, it allows every player to experience his set dungeon and allows him to master it. Secondly it allows for objectives being demanding on the players skill and build making rather than pure damage and toughness stacking. By the way nobody can tell me, they had to were a white weapon. Gems and Paragon points are better and easier ways to tune your character accordingly.
Set dungeons offer another experience of Diablo. In some of them you have to be insanely fast, in others thourough, in others careful and others tactical. It is good, to force the players to play in another way than rifts. You simply get to know all your skills and class better. You learn to dodge, avoid attacks and time and combine yours. Something which was extremely important in the first days of Diablo. Don't get me wrong, the old inferno days have been the horror.
The reward is purely cosmetical, thus there is no need to accomplish the dungeon more than once. Hence it is ok, if you have to try a couple of times and maybe rely a little bit on luck, because it is hard to make it fair and not too easy without adding a little bit of randomness.

If you have problems finishing it, maybe you have to overthink, what you are actually doing. If you need help just ask. I didn't find any of the objectives unfair or impossible, if you gear and make your build correctly. The set dungeons are in contrast to the rest of the game not about killing everything ASAP. If you are willing to accept this facts, you actually may have fun mastering them.
Nobody has any issue with the concept, it's the fact that some of them ask you to full clear in a huge dungeon when mob aggro and "skull marks" are erratic.

I've failed SWK dungeon at least 5 times because i missed one mob when I completed the rest of the objective in 1 shot. There is nothing I can do to avoid this because mobs refuse to aggro properly or sits in a small room in a corner.
Which set dungeon did you do?

Some of them aren't too bad, such as Helltooth. Some of them are... well, just look at Wizard.

I tried Jade but those Snake going invisible were the reason why I failed it by a few seconds -_-

Overall, they are not a fun experience for me. If you like them, good for you.
Whirlwind Set dungeon. lol... What Whirlwind build uses rend and avoids all melee physical damage while Whirlwinding in melee?
I completed all 24 sets and I have the wings, I can say with confidence all of them are doable in the time given. Some of them were cool some of them made me want to rip my ear off and throw it at the wall. But when you complete it, the relief is so worth it and I do find the challenge fun. Its like doing a puzzle, you arent going to muscle your way through it. Its so annoying to hear people saying "uhhhg I didnt get it in 5 trys, blizzard remove this stupid stuff I dont like it. such a waste of time" grow up.
No, they aren't good.

Jade Harverster: Hey, you have to kill this many mobs before the timer expires. Nevermind those snakes that go invisible, get completely imune and then decide to go visible only when they want to. Oh, and nevermind the fact that this dungeon has lot's of dead ends.

Zuni: Hey, you know this skill that you probably don't use in your build? Yeah, you have to use it here and you gotta grasp a bunch of enemies to complete it. Nevermind the fact that mobs come in small groups and you will be lucky to get enough. Oh, and don't even get me started on what this games considers as "melee range".

Tal Rasha's: There's mobs here that you can't see. You will have no idea where they are the first time. Alas, they do give notice they are coming up, but it's not like you are playing a game plagued with visual clutter everywhere and you won't see the tiny effect the worm does when coming out of the ground.

Those are the 3 I've done. Mastered only Tal Rasha's because it was the easiest, since the worms at least come in a fixed place every time. It wasn't hard, took me less than 10 tries, but it felt stupid and annoying. They are all bloody awful and feel meaningless and I'm sure they wouldn't have a fraction of the participation they are getting if the aditional stash tab wasn't gated behind it. Jade Harverster is way too stupid with those snakes going invisible and Zunimassa is just annoying having grasp of the dead on it.
I'm not surprised about the down votes, after the likes of the other thread. So funny, how most of the players are just interested in melting faces instead of a challenge.

01/26/2016 11:38 AMPosted by Avermra
Nobody has any issue with the concept, it's the fact that some of them ask you to full clear in a huge dungeon when mob aggro and "skull marks" are erratic.


Beeing thorough is a bad thing? I usually had no need to run through the dungeon after finishing the objectives to kill of the missing mobs. The time is enough to kill the mobs in the first place and finish it. Maybe you have to be a little bit more efficient.

01/26/2016 11:45 AMPosted by Kotumser
What Whirlwind build uses rend and avoids all melee physical damage while Whirlwinding in melee?


That is not what it is about, the set dungeon shows you, that it is pretty easy to avoid physical attacks using this set. The application of rend makes it just a little bit more difficult to master. Tell me, why does the set dungeon have to use the same build you use in rifts? There is none. It would just be dull to do so.

01/26/2016 11:51 AMPosted by Azrok
Jade Harverster is way too stupid with those snakes going invisible and Zunimassa is just annoying having grasp of the dead on it.


If you would have taken your time, maybe you would have recognized the pattern, when and where the snakes go invisible. The snakes force you to not just go brainless in the dungeon and pay attention to all the mobs around you. Not just running around and crushing the poor little snakes.
It's sad to see you defend such a completely flawed implementation.

Please tell me how why "mastering" the marauder's set dungeon means I just sit by the entrance placing a turret every 4 seconds while my friends run around decked out and kill every monster for me?

Anyone saying they enjoyed playing the dungeons solo and solved the puzzles is a masochist. The optimal solution to most of these is to play with friends and have them wreck the dungeon for you.

Set dungeons are a decent concept, but they just failed with actually realizing anything worthwhile.

If you really want a puzzle, go play FreeCell. I hear Microsoft Solitaire has some pretty tricky puzzles in their tournament.
Since this OP tried to capitalize on one of the most popular threads in the forums by making a thread with the exact opposite viewpoint, I guess he is trying to get as many downvotes as the other thread has upvotes.
01/26/2016 11:46 AMPosted by Ham
I completed all 24 sets and I have the wings, I can say with confidence all of them are doable in the time given. Some of them were cool some of them made me want to rip my ear off and throw it at the wall. But when you complete it, the relief is so worth it and I do find the challenge fun. Its like doing a puzzle, you arent going to muscle your way through it. Its so annoying to hear people saying "uhhhg I didnt get it in 5 trys, blizzard remove this stupid stuff I dont like it. such a waste of time" grow up.
Calling it a challenge is an insult to the skillful.

The set dungeons are so reliant on gimmick and RNG that at times you couldn't overcome them with all the skill in the world.
01/26/2016 12:28 PMPosted by Lollz
Anyone saying they enjoyed playing the dungeons solo and solved the puzzles is a masochist. The optimal solution to most of these is to play with friends and have them wreck the dungeon for you.


I don't call myself a masochist ;D. But I agree, that the set dungeons should not be joinable in a group.

01/26/2016 12:28 PMPosted by Lollz
If you really want a puzzle, go play FreeCell. I hear Microsoft Solitaire has some pretty tricky puzzles in their tournament.


Thanks for the sarcasm.
01/26/2016 12:22 PMPosted by Raggi

01/26/2016 11:51 AMPosted by Azrok
Jade Harverster is way too stupid with those snakes going invisible and Zunimassa is just annoying having grasp of the dead on it.


If you would have taken your time, maybe you would have recognized the pattern, when and where the snakes go invisible. The snakes force you to not just go brainless in the dungeon and pay attention to all the mobs around you. Not just running around and crushing the poor little snakes.


Ok, with that said I'll just assume you are trolling and disregard whatever you say from now on. Yeah... Pattern on that completely random invisibility is just too much.
01/26/2016 11:34 AMPosted by Raggi
The design decision to not make the dungeon highly gear dependent is in fact a very good one. First of all, it allows every player to experience his set dungeon and allows him to master it. Secondly it allows for objectives being demanding on the players skill and build making rather than pure damage and toughness stacking. By the way nobody can tell me, they had to were a white weapon. Gems and Paragon points are better and easier ways to tune your character accordingly.


First, kudos for taking the time to type up a coherent and well-formed post. On this one part, I must disagree with you. The problem for me with the current mechanics of set dungeons is that they go exactly 180° from what has been the core point and direction of the Diablo franchise since release day of the original Diablo 20 years ago in '96. Kill stuff, get gear.... kill more stuff, get better gear. The better your gear, the better the reward for having that gear and doing tougher content. That's it in a nutshell.

I'm neither for or against side-games and/or mini-games as it were, which is really what set dungeons boil down to being. I can take 'em or leave 'em depending. What I do have an issue with is when they become somewhat mandatory, especially in terms of being an addition to an established structure in which they influence the core aspects of the game. In this case, it's the inclusion of them as requirements of the season journey to get stash space for use in the main game. Which goes back to my first point.

Let's say you're starting the season and you've opted to focus on doing the season journey as your play guide. To fulfill the requirements that came before doing the first set dungeon requirement, you have to be overgeared for the set dungeon that you'll get to later. In that regard, you are absolutely being guided in a linear progression forward, then asked to turn around and move backwards. Which I find ironic in a way because it's that lack of stash space that has made you discard all your lesser gear along the way to get where you've gotten. I mean, why would you keep it? Surely there wouldn't ever be a reason to keep bad gear on hand so you can do less damage. Not after 20 years of a precedent of having "more gear, better gear, higher content" beaten into our heads.

My casual player opinion? Set dungeons are, in theory, a great addition to the game. Their implementation is a bit lacking. Are they doable? Of course. But the amount of toil and trouble to do them when their core mechanics is against the whole established point of the franchise makes them feel un-fun. Not just un-fun, but forced un-fun. Dare I say, a grind. And don't get me wrong, the entire game at level 70 is a grind.... but it's the feel of that grind that makes it fun. I killed stuff, I got gear for killing that stuff. So now I can grind on harder stuff and there's a sense of accomplishment. Rinse, repeat. Set dungeons are just frustrating in that the only real sense of accomplishment is figuring out the sweet spot of gimping yourself just enough to not kill mobs too fast so you can perform your X amount of special tricks, but not so much that after you do it you can still wipe every mob off the map before time runs out. It doesn't feel rewarding in any way, just relief that you don't have to do it again. Of course, this is all just my opinion and how I feel about it. YMMV.
01/26/2016 12:22 PMPosted by Raggi
I'm not surprised about the down votes, after the likes of the other thread. So funny, how most of the players are just interested in melting faces instead of a challenge.

01/26/2016 11:38 AMPosted by Avermra
Nobody has any issue with the concept, it's the fact that some of them ask you to full clear in a huge dungeon when mob aggro and "skull marks" are erratic.


Beeing thorough is a bad thing? I usually had no need to run through the dungeon after finishing the objectives to kill of the missing mobs. The time is enough to kill the mobs in the first place and finish it. Maybe you have to be a little bit more efficient.

01/26/2016 11:45 AMPosted by Kotumser
What Whirlwind build uses rend and avoids all melee physical damage while Whirlwinding in melee?


That is not what it is about, the set dungeon shows you, that it is pretty easy to avoid physical attacks using this set. The application of rend makes it just a little bit more difficult to master. Tell me, why does the set dungeon have to use the same build you use in rifts? There is none. It would just be dull to do so.

01/26/2016 11:51 AMPosted by Azrok
Jade Harverster is way too stupid with those snakes going invisible and Zunimassa is just annoying having grasp of the dead on it.


If you would have taken your time, maybe you would have recognized the pattern, when and where the snakes go invisible. The snakes force you to not just go brainless in the dungeon and pay attention to all the mobs around you. Not just running around and crushing the poor little snakes.


If i only miss -one- mob I think I am being pretty thorough. Being thorough and efficient at this game are also completely opposite concepts because the most efficient way to kill things IS to leave things up, but that's beside the point. I don't know how many dungeon you've mastered, but I'm going to assume you did all of them to justify you defending their position (and yeah, i just reread your post: you definitely did master all of them), but the skull mark only shows up after you have X or fewer mobs left. This means that, again, you won't see any skull marks on your first run-through if it is a zombie sitting in a dark corner.

Once again, the concept is actually great; the implementation isn't.
01/26/2016 11:51 AMPosted by Azrok
They are all bloody awful and feel meaningless and I'm sure they wouldn't have a fraction of the participation they are getting if the aditional stash tab wasn't gated behind it.


Absolute waste of developer time.
Agreed OP.

Just got my crusader pennant last night and after hearing all of the sky is falling rhetoric about the difficulty I did all four in less than 10 tries. I think this game needed this style of challenge where it isn't just about "MOAR damage and toughness, fish for a day GR pushing!" Along with a totally new gearing and playstyle with invokers set, the devs are on the right track.
All I hope is that Blizzard doesn't "fix" the set dungeon the way lots of peoples on this board are asking for (IE, allow me to faceroll everything in my usual combination of skill and gear just like I faceroll t10").This would be such a waste, after getting something different and fun like that

There's certainly fix here and there to do though.
1) never again make it a requirement for a season journey. Most of the backlash comes from peoples being forced to play in something different from what they play diablo for and not liking that point. Cosmetic rewards are fine, but stash is a QoL reward so it shouldn't be tied to set dungeon in any way.
2) fix the exploit of using several player to clear it. That's not how they're supposed to be played. It's fine this season because this compensate the fact that blizzard forced players to do at least one, but not fine on the long run.
3) fix several dungeons like the Invoker one who can be brute forced by gear. Seeing other set dungeons, his shouldn't be the case.Again, that kind of set dungeon is fine this season due to player being forced to master one for the stash. But not on the long run.

Other than that, keep the set dungeon coming, that's a great idea and it's fun to do.
And no peoples, liking them doesn't mean we're masochists. Guess what, different peoples like different things. Calling other names or "masochist" or whatever ad hominem stuff you're coming up with those who enjoyed something you didn't enjoy isn't going to make you right, and definitely not going to make you look smarter.
01/26/2016 12:39 PMPosted by WarDance
What I do have an issue with is when they become somewhat mandatory, especially in terms of being an addition to an established structure in which they influence the core aspects of the game. In this case, it's the inclusion of them as requirements of the season journey to get stash space for use in the main game.


I totally agree with you on this point. Haven't looked on set dungeons from this perspective.

01/26/2016 12:39 PMPosted by WarDance
And don't get me wrong, the entire game at level 70 is a grind


You said it, rifts and set dungeons turn out to have a grindy aspect in common. That is one of the reasons I cannot understand people calling the set dungeons a waste of time. How much time do you waste on fishing for a Grift and how much gain do you have in doing it? Every set dungeon took me, including the gearing process around 1-2h. I got cosmetical rewards. Measured on the time I wasted in rifting this is imho a good price-performance ratio.
The Jade dungeon where those guys stay hidden... Haunt will stick to them but because they are hidden they don't get damaged. Then you have this problem, do you hang around for 1min for them to pop to kill them or do you clear the map and not have enough time to get back to them by the time they pop.

I have failed the mastery about 10 times because I've missed like 2 mobs that I could see were Haunted but weren't reacting/visible at all.
I absolultey HATE the set dungeons. They are absolutely no fun to play and purely frustrating. I cant get the wings and the stash tab cauz I want to play D3 casual as I always did. WORST.SEASON. EVER. Locking good stuff behind this !@#$ and making player jump through hoops sucks !

The effort to bring something new is nice, but imo the devs failed. I wont continue the season journey
and I also have a real life, I cant grind for the gear all time and try these dungeons over and over and over again becauz one single monster hit me. Most frustrating when u got nearly all objectives. Frust level is now the same with the game when it had the auction house and pre- ROS stat.

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