How can Seasons have more longevity?

General Discussion
02/07/2016 09:15 PMPosted by SteLitY
02/07/2016 07:48 PMPosted by MissCheetah
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What sort of suggestions do you have in mind? What would keep you interested?

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Personally, I hate that the game focuses on "end game". An RPG, to me, is a classic game where you level a character, make choices as you go that impact the fundamental abilities and traits of that char, and work to make it stronger. Along with that of course is the monster smashing and loot hunting that is a core component. The game was about the journey, not just rushing to the end.

D3 took away both of those things for me.

Nothing I do as I level or quest changes WHO my character becomes. They are just paperdolls to be dressed in the randomly dropped loot that provides all the power.

Speaking of loot hunt...well that got short circuited too. We get handed a lot of things very quickly so we can "rush" to end game. I am actually a fan of the current drop rates vs Vanilla. They feel rewarding for the time spent in game. It is just that with the Gift, Kadala, and the Cube to augment them players can get BiS very quickly - then the dissapointment of never seeing an upgrade sets in. So what do you do once the loot hunt is over? Augment items? I guess.... It does not feel as awesome as IDing something you have been looking for for weeks - to me anyway. That all said, the balance between drops being too common and drops being too rare is a hard one to reach because player opinions on it are so widely diverse.

Some people really like the "end game" rush through leveling concept. I would not advocate taking it away. It would be interesting to me though if they did something with Campaign that revised questing and char development. Where making a Fire Wizard meant a picking a magic branch, some questing, some skill allocation, some commitment. Where there are benefits power and performance wise to making those decisions for your char. I would like ways after 70 to keep developing down the skill path I selected, not just generic paragon point stats. Not sure how those style chars would play out end game, but it is an interesting idea for me to think about anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I do like D3 and enjoy playing. I really like many of the features they have added to the game. I just miss leveling a char as a meaningful activity and that char having an identity. I am just not a fan of rush to the end and run out of things to do.


In D2, people get rushed to hell mode and then level 80+ through ubers


Taking advantage of flaws within the game doesn't count. You couldn't normally do Ancients before level 20 ( think). People took advantage of flaws to earn quest completion to jump on higher difficulties they shouldn't be able to unlock...

They even patched the XP given by "endless" mobs in Uber Tristam but they didn't do it properly.

Once again, it doesn't count since it was an abuse on top of abuse.
02/07/2016 08:35 PMPosted by MissCheetah
Be careful with that one. Set Dungeons try to do just that - make people figure out how to use a build against objectives instead of just power.

As we can see, that is not always a very popular choice and can be difficult to implement in a way that appeals to a broad player base. People REALLY like smashing things into demonspray. WoW style boss fights where you have to get the exactly right skills off during the exact right phase of a gimmicky fight don't seem to fit D3 - to me anyway.


The problem with set dungeons is that most of the mastery objectives make little to no sense in relation to the set itself. For instance, Marauder is about placing sentries and grouping enemies to maximize kills with said sentries. Just what does "don't get bitten by a Rockworm" have to do with that set or DH mobility?

Set dungeons go about things in the most unintuitive way possible (seriously, gearing down should not even be considered an option in any good RPG and yet...that's how a good amount of set dungeons have to be tackled in order to meet the requirements for mastery). The problem isn't with the concept - we all agree set dungeons as a concept is cool, it's with the implementation. Honestly, the set dungeons should have been left out until 2.5 so they could have gotten some actual skillful mechanics instead of arbitrary "whatevs" thrown in for no good reason because they make no sense.

That the only realistic way to beat most set dungeons is to have a friend, preferrably in a gear setup that can skim through the dungeon, do things for you is beyond asinine and shows that this feature didn't get nearly enough internal playtesting as it should have and/or feedback was completely ignored during the PTR (which it was).
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02/07/2016 09:12 PMPosted by Gnome
Going to quote myself on the set dungeons blog.


I agree with these. It's surprised me how much harder elites with random affixes feel then major bosses. Feels like it should be the other way around.

Imo if they really want GRs timed that badly, it should only be the trash clearing that's timed. That would make fighting the Rift Guardians less frustration and RNG complains and more about enjoying the challenge/clear.
This is afterall a grinding game. They need to give us more activities to grind not just grifts. Take some ideas from marvel heroes. D3 is better than mh in so many ways, but i find myself going back to mh just becoz of their end game activities.
02/07/2016 07:48 PMPosted by MissCheetah
02/07/2016 07:12 PMPosted by DoomBringer
More end-game activities = more things to do once a new season starts.
More end-game activities = dedicated players have more things to do.


What sort of suggestions do you have in mind? What would keep you interested?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I hate that the game focuses on "end game". An RPG, to me, is a classic game where you level a character, make choices as you go that impact the fundamental abilities and traits of that char, and work to make it stronger. Along with that of course is the monster smashing and loot hunting that is a core component. The game was about the journey, not just rushing to the end.

D3 took away both of those things for me.

Nothing I do as I level or quest changes WHO my character becomes. They are just paperdolls to be dressed in the randomly dropped loot that provides all the power.

Speaking of loot hunt...well that got short circuited too. We get handed a lot of things very quickly so we can "rush" to end game. I am actually a fan of the current drop rates vs Vanilla. They feel rewarding for the time spent in game. It is just that with the Gift, Kadala, and the Cube to augment them players can get BiS very quickly - then the dissapointment of never seeing an upgrade sets in. So what do you do once the loot hunt is over? Augment items? I guess.... It does not feel as awesome as IDing something you have been looking for for weeks - to me anyway. That all said, the balance between drops being too common and drops being too rare is a hard one to reach because player opinions on it are so widely diverse.

Some people really like the "end game" rush through leveling concept. I would not advocate taking it away. It would be interesting to me though if they did something with Campaign that revised questing and char development. Where making a Fire Wizard meant a picking a magic branch, some questing, some skill allocation, some commitment. Where there are benefits power and performance wise to making those decisions for your char. I would like ways after 70 to keep developing down the skill path I selected, not just generic paragon point stats. Not sure how those style chars would play out end game, but it is an interesting idea for me to think about anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I do like D3 and enjoy playing. I really like many of the features they have added to the game. I just miss leveling a char as a meaningful activity and that char having an identity. I am just not a fan of rush to the end and run out of things to do.


Would you prefer such a broken game as D2 then?

I played this for 10 years and not once did I have an IK armor or Tyraels. Not once a Grandfather, not once a Windforce, not once a high end runeword like Hota....

Do you call this fun? I call this pointless and a waste of my time.

The drop rates at D3 are pretty ok, it will take you a few hundred hours to have some really good gear, especially finding an ancient item can take quite some time.

Sure, some items can be crafted relatively easy, but you still need the mats for those. In my opinion, the item hunt is much more pleasant at D3 than at D2.

At D2 I always gimped myself if I didn't do Baal runs, as only there all could drop, yet I never saw the good stuff ... Tal armor was my biggest drop at this game and I found it once...

As for D3 seasons,

we should get more goodies for sure. I enjoyed doing the seasons journey, but it´s not fun if I am forced to play HC to finish it. They should better add another set dungeon requirement or something like GR 80 solo. Things that don´t influence our game as in forcing us to play something we don´t usually do.

I also think that it would be great, to have something to be done with the campaign mode. It´s like at D1 and D2, the best part of the game, yet like in D2, completely ignored and forgotten. All we do is run Baal or now GR.

This is boring.

I want to have freedom again, I want to experience the beautiful story and see how my character meets new people and fights the evil. It would be fun if we could play through the story and at the end we unlock something special, maybe upgrades to our runes or the paragon system.

So we could hunt for items at rifts and enhance our character inside the campaign. Said campaign should also be much more difficult similar to Inferno once. Damn, I loved Inferno so much - never understood why it was removed.

It was the best addition to the franchise.
For me, the season burnout was quicker in S5 vs S4 because S4 was my first. I had started D3 a week or so before 2.3 update and had learned a lot during my time in S4. Met a few players online that I regularly play with and found an active clan. In S5, I knew what to look for. I got everything I needed. Got my tab in about 2 weeks. Now I have nothing really to look forward to. I'm just helping out my friends to get their tabs. I don't have anything to look forward too. It's just the same old GR grinding for paragon, upgrades and augmenting gear.
Throwing in my 2c worth.

Does anyone remember the Ultimate Online power hour?

My equivalent here would be to provide a buff that increases the quality of drops.
This buff applies for only 1 hour per day.
This ticks when you are in Rifts or Bounties but it is frozen when you are in a safe zone like New Tristram.

The balance of the time your drop rate wont be buffed and will be about 50% of what it is in S4.

Yes some people will complain, but you cant please everyone.
Easy. Just hire more shills to brag how fun seasons are.

A lot of large but falling corporation do it now
----- included but not limited to a local television station here-----
It literally stopped producing new shows/programmes long ago and
repackaged all its old TV episodes as new bundles to viewers,
Some are not even borned when those TV shows were 1st aired (70s & 80s).
Those bundles were sometimes aired repeatedly 3 times a day.
Fancy slogan caught my eyeballs once to explore
but found those were viewed-multiple-times and outdated entertainment
At the same time, apparently a lot of 'fans' flushed in local TV discussion forum
bombing day and night in nostalgic tones

BTW, This TV station is now a doomed candidate for bankrupcy
Too bad, Shills would not pay a dime to save this rotten thingy with total complacent, lean-and-lame-management
But shills will definitely buy those corporations some time from quick death to slow death, and limited publicity. Some dumb, half-brain monkeys out there always believe in monkey tricks and find ---- repeating and redoing are fun
Seasons need more events for the casuals. Casuals dont want to make GRs or split bounties. I'm findind in these forums that many d2 players never played baalruns or pvp so they need special events like make a t10 run in less than 30 minutes and things like this. Nothing "frustrating".
02/08/2016 01:58 AMPosted by Qwenta
Seasons need more events for the casuals. Casuals dont want to make GRs or split bounties. I'm findind in these forums that many d2 players never played baalruns or pvp so they need special events like make a t10 run in less than 30 minutes and things like this. Nothing "frustrating".


A lot of us would rather not have even more tied to seasons. It just isn't really any fun for those of us that prefer to stick with out non-seasonal characters instead of getting on the hamster wheel every three and a half months.
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02/08/2016 02:23 AMPosted by TheTias
02/08/2016 01:58 AMPosted by Qwenta
Seasons need more events for the casuals. Casuals dont want to make GRs or split bounties. I'm findind in these forums that many d2 players never played baalruns or pvp so they need special events like make a t10 run in less than 30 minutes and things like this. Nothing "frustrating".


A lot of us would rather not have even more tied to seasons. It just isn't really any fun for those of us that prefer to stick with out non-seasonal characters instead of getting on the hamster wheel every three and a half months.


The post is about making seasons have more longevity, not about NS/season.
And it can be achieved via special events. I don't need them to play seasons but i can understand that some casuals dont want to play the end-game and need other events/features that grind exp/mats.
I like to play every season a diferent char as the meta is changing but for players like you that your goal is play TX or only have fun its not enough and need something more. Dungeons are nice and some of them offer a nice challenge. You dont need gems or high parangon btw. Maybe blizzard should make some new features like that,
02/07/2016 09:23 PMPosted by TheTias
That the only realistic way to beat most set dungeons is to have a friend, preferrably in a gear setup that can skim through the dungeon, do things for you is beyond asinine and shows that this feature didn't get nearly enough internal playtesting as it should have and/or feedback was completely ignored during the PTR (which it was).

This isn't entirely true, I've completed all the dungeons for both WD and DH solo, this includes the Jade and Marauder sets - the two most complained about. I think a lot of people miss the point of these. I tend to see them as more of a puzzle where you need to piece together the right skills, gear and strategy to solve - or at least they should be, and yes it may mean gimping yourself in order to get the DPS balance right to master the dungeon. You're not meant to be able to overpower them.
There's no XP progress in TX anymore after 500 paragon except in Greater Rifts. That literally means other game modes are a waste of time. Bounties and Nephalem Rifts should go way beyond TX, with rewards scaling accordingly.
content wise s5 should have a lot of longevity... the implementation of said content is an issue that kills the longevity sadly... anyways we already had a lot of suggestions and discussions similar to this topic... they should have enough "ideas" for their patch brainstorming...

the vault for example was great... sadly it lost the wow effect cuz of various stuff...
gues why...
02/08/2016 02:56 AMPosted by gambler
There's no XP progress in TX anymore after 500 paragon except in Greater Rifts. That literally means other game modes are a waste of time. Bounties and Nephalem Rifts should go way beyond TX, with rewards scaling accordingly.


Definitely.

It's a bit sad that they think the mats from bounties/reg rifts are enough to make us *actually* want to do them.

Well, then again, GRs have a very similar appeal.

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Necessary changes to increase longetevity in this game are not bound to seasonal play. And there isn't just one thing; It's a combination of several issues that have been snowballing into shorter and shorter play times between patches (seasons).

First and foremost - Stop trying to draw the casual players into seasons. I think that because of this, we have the increased drop rates and alternative gearing methods. Seasons are for starting over and gearing fresh, and directed at those who play a lot and get bored with already having everything (and leaderboard chasers).

Cut the drop rates and ease of alternative gearing methods. This game is supposed to be about grinding for that awesome gear you want, or working towards some rare gear to try out a different build. By handing out gear, it removes this grind and what is left in the game? Remove the rare-leg cube recipe (or greatly increase the cost), slightly reduce leg/set drop rates (including Kaldala), and get rid of the seasonal set gifts.

Stop the power creep and balance out the skills/classes. When we are fed set changes that make a handful of builds exponentially more efficient than all the others, players will naturally be drawn to them. Once you gear them out, it's not very appealing to gear out builds that deal less damage by orders of magnitudes. Once that is done, and people have played out the build, it gets boring. By balancing the skills, people will strive for other gear and experiment with builds they find enjoyable. In regards to paragon leveling: With power creep, you know that the time you put into getting more paragon will be (essentially) wasted when next patch you can achieve more in a fraction of the time it currently takes. This is clearly evident by the people who already have more paragon this season than their non-season.

Balance the out the different game options. D3 has come a long way since farming the A3 story, but now we just cycle: rift for GR keys, then GR. Bring up the mob density and drop rates in adventure/campaign mode to match rifts. Max out the GR exp gains to TX. Running GR should be about seeing how far you can take your build, and leveling your gems. Leave the gearing/EXP gains to other parts of the game.

TLDR
-Cut drop rates
-Remove set 'gift', remove (or increase the cost of) rare-legendary cube recipe
-Stop the power creep
-Balance the skills/classes (so long overdue)
-Even out drop rates for regular play and campaign
-Increase monster density in and especially out of rifts
-Reduce GR exp gains
-Stop the power creep

Edit:
If they don't want to fix the old, they can add a new draw with competitive rifts (face-off in the same exact rift). Details for how this could be implemented have been hashed out in many other threads.
02/08/2016 08:08 AMPosted by BulkFuel
TLDR
-Cut drop rates
-Remove set 'gift', remove (or increase the cost of) rare-legendary cube recipe
-Stop the power creep
-Balance the skills/classes (so long overdue)
-Even out drop rates for regular play and campaign
-Increase monster density in and especially out of rifts
-Reduce GR exp gains
-Stop the power creep


I do in general agree with this, however, i have to disagree with further monster density increase... they should rather decrease the density in rifts & GRs and go with quality fights instead of quantity fights...
A good PVP system would go a remarkably long ways.
Perhaps Op should ask another question which is more-important?

How can D3 has more longetivity?

I agree totally that Paragon sys makes this looting game boring,
but "improved" with even more boring way of playing (restart-redo thingy)?

2.4.0 and cube are improvements with real substance and juice of creativity
Seasons is totally opposite --- nothing but a different wrapping sheet to the same burger
No, because Blizz already said this is a PURPOSE.

http://youtu.be/ol4_xSTpHns?t=17m55s

We can only cry or play other game.
D3 is another game today...

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