We Asked For Endless Dungeons Not Endless Power Creeps

General Discussion
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All they had to do was make it to where when completing a floor, you go to the next and so on. Continue where you left off if you leave the dungeon or die. Have some sort of way to prevent you from continuing that dungeon. Say, dying 5 times. Something along those lines. It would and could have been so simple, but they decided to make it difficult and restricting.
The only true sales figures we have are when the game launched. D3 sold 16m copies and ROS's sold 2.7 million copies. This gives the blizzard a 16% player retention rate = huge failure. The silent Marjory preferred the AH, preferred trade, preferred vanilla way more than ROS and they voted against the new expansion with their wallets. The silent majority makes up 84% of the original vanilla fan base, the forums on the other hand maybe 2-5%.


Everything is correct but your jumpy conclusion that it's because everyone preferred trade, you can't prove that.
In fact, based upon my experience who had like 20+ friends playing diablo3, it's much more reasonable, by a large margin of logic, that people didn't buy RoS because they left diablo3 WAY, WAY, WAYYYYYYY before 2.0, like, in the first day, probably after playing it for 5h+ and feeling utterly frustrated, cheated, disappointed... Not only my friends but that was simply common sense in this forums, in the internet reviews, youtube videos, every. where. Even the top streamers lasted so long with the help of their viewers, they had endless critics for this game, see Kripparian.

Those who stayed more than this faced loads of other problems and frustration because of the abysmal drop rates and the endgame curve... blizzard literally dumbed down the game and released its true features later (enchanting and socketing weapons for example,... they removed it and used a lame excuse); these are open facts, it's forever solidified in gaming history through blue/dev posts saved somewhere in the internet.
They literally tried to create a false sense of endgame through horribad loot, in the beggining, people had to farm act 3/4 inferno for the best gear/gear that could help they get through inferno, but guess what, white mobs from act ONE were 1 hitting them... how would this be possible? Farming hell difficulty? Nope, that won't work... only choice is to grind act 1 slowly, with bad and uncertain rewards, or exploit the game.

Ahh we can't forget the exploits, wizards removing their hp/increasing regen and using the diamond skin that limited damage to 35%;;; then they would only die if they took up to 3 hits (in a very short time-window) didn't matter the mobs damage.
Using tyrael to farm, lmao, i was there...
Farming breakables for gold, farmin breakables for magic items, farming fixed golden chests spawns, farming fixed goblin spawns... buying cheap+good gear from clueless people in the AH, or before that, through public games/trade chat... it was literally an ocean of fail. People only succeeded when they didn't play as intended (trying to have fun).

Then, those who left (probably 80% of the playerbase), forgot this game, it was so bad they didn't believe an expansion could fix or they didn't even want to hear from it again... also, it was clear through the server lag/queue times/number of public games that the playerbase dipped down by the day, which i remember as clear as the light of those days lol

I'm not saying that trading is bad, if you take into consideration chinese farmers/botters, or people abusing the game for money/selling top notch gear through illegal means... well, then it is bad, but if there was/is a way around this then i would like trading, who wouldn't? If it's something for FUN and not for X or Y people (or bots...) real money profit.

I can even go on a lonshot and say that blizzard did a very good job with RoS and that they not only kept their playerbase but they also added new ones and even recovered some who had hopes for the current fail of a game this was.
02/28/2016 09:56 AMPosted by Jumpman
You do realize that's exactly how vanilla was? The new dev's devolved d3 by taking away choices and they gave it back to us later acting like its new content.


But i may disagree with what parts are actually worst than it was before.
This was literally a cash cow machine experiment, really sad.

02/27/2016 11:33 PMPosted by Angel
I Played wizard almost exclusively since D3'slaunch, I've seen all the ups and downs that we've gone through. We started off as a nice class, Needing to bob and weave to survive, flicking from one section of the map to another in order to not get 2 or 3 hit in Inferno A3.


Nice class? It was the ONLY class for some time, only losing in a few momments to the DH, and then to barbarians, overall they stood as absolute most of 1.0~2.0.
I was inclined, OP, to agree to a point with you until you pulled out the "no trading" complaint.

I keep hoping people will get what Blizzard was reaching for when the trading restrictions were implemented, but here we are 2 years after Reaper of Souls was released, and people still don't get it (or they're just conveniently ignoring it).

1) You can trade. But it's restricted: you can only trade with people who were in your group when the item(s) in question dropped. You can't just hold on to something and give it to anyone you want. Alternately, you can give it to another one of your own characters at any point you like by just tossing it in your stash.

2) The restriction on trading was put in place to encourage people to GO OUT AND PLAY THE GAME FOR THEIR DROPS, not just shoot past the game's gearing curve so they can play at the highest level using drops someone else farmed up for them. Gearing curves are a natural and very common product of RPGs. They're there to get you playing the game, not merely taking the fast lane to the highest levels of play (where you're likely to not know what you're doing in the first place, since you didn't play the game to get there).

I look at the "Apprentice Mode" that's on the console version of Diablo 3. The intent was to let a buddy come over, sit down on the couch with you, and just start playing, instead of forcing you to start a new character to play with your buddy at the lowest levels (likely having to let all your Paragon Levels sit there unused so your existing play doesn't overpower your buddy in that fashion). It works great for someone who already knows how to play the game. But for a brand new player, it's just confusion. I sit there on my Paragon 325 Demon Hunter on my Xbox, and I invite a buddy who's never played over. He makes a Monk, and the Apprentice Mode raises his power so he can run around with me in rifts and not get one-shot by a stray bolt from a monster. He gets 30+ levels from a single rift. Once we close the rift, we head back to town, and once I'm done clearing out my inventory, salvaging stuff, and dropping it off in my stash, he opens up his window... and he's presented with 30 levels of abilities and runes to sort through. He hasn't had a chance to try 'em out to see what works or what's the most fun for him, level by level. He has to make decisions all at once, and then once we go back into a rift and he gets another 15-20 levels, he has to do it all over again. The entire time, he's also trying to figure out which of the Legendaries he acquired are good for him to equip. One or two set pieces show up for him after he hits 70th level in a third rift, and he has to figure out whether he wants them, not knowing optimal ways to use his Monk's abilities because he didn't experience 70 levels' worth of play to learn the class inside and out. He ran through 3 rifts, hit 70th level, and started gaining Paragon Levels.

This "no trading" thing is there to avoid things like that: it's there to get people to play the game, to learn their class, and to enjoy the experience, not merely to shoot straight to the top. The Paragon Levels are there to increase survivability for any new characters you make at 1st level as much to increase output for your existing 70th level character(s).

It isn't to say Diablo 3 isn't a hamster wheel. It is. That's what an ARPG is: the ongoing hunt for ever more powerful items, so you can face ever more powerful creatures. It shouldn't have a "cap". The only problem is in how this lack of cap is implemented in Diablo 3, and on that we'll agree (hopefully) that there's a problem.

The first part of that problem is the Legendaries that start dropping once you're in Torment. A Legendary can drop in Torment 1 that is equal or greater in power to one that drops in Torment 10. Raising your difficulty past Torment 1 doesn't increase the quality of Legendary drops, it only increases their frequency. You end a rift with more Legendaries, but not more powerful Legendaries.

The second part comes in having Torment 10 be the cap for "traditional" play. The game, in addition to not giving you BETTER Legendaries past Torment 1, also caps out at difficulty, removing the urge to push for those higher difficulties in the first place.

Greater Rifts have the purpose of speed runs. To incentivize this, you receive access to Legendary Gems. The problem with a speed run, however, is if you aren't able to meet an arbitrary clock on the run, your incentive to be there instead of a normal rift is gone. While being able to survive & complete a given Grift is a measure of your power, this feature is misplaced in Grifts. I think they ought to have infinitely-scaling difficulty in normal Rifts, where you can pace yourself and be creative with your strategy in taking on packs of monsters instead of being constrained by a clock. Leave Grifts there so people can complete speed runs, and let completion of a speed run be its own reward, as it would be for the people who care about completing things fast to begin with. But for many players (and I'm one of the latter here), the reward is in getting more powerful gear and using it to face more powerful monsters.

We don't have that in normal rifts. The power of the gear isn't tied to difficulty beyond the Torment demarcation. It's tied to your character level. A Legendary for a level 40 hero is more powerful than one for a level 10 hero, and a Level 70 Legendary is more powerful than all the others, but aside from the drop opportunity for a few being tied to the Torment difficulty, the ties of power to difficulty stop there.

I say we ought to move infinitely-scaling difficulty to normal rifts. Let the player select the difficulty level (keep calling it Torment <x> if you like).Difficulty in a Greater Rift will be the same, and your ability to complete the Grift in time is an indication of your power level being appropriate for that difficulty level. If you're consistently completing Grifts at, say, Torment 88 within the allotted time, or if you're consistently one- or two-shotting monsters at Torment 88 in a normal rift, that's an indication that it's time to raise your difficulty.

And doing so provides more POWERFUL Legendaries, not simply more Legendary drops. A Thunderfury that rolls at Torment 88 will, at its weakest roll, still be more powerful than the best-possible roll for a Thunderfury that drops at Torment 87. Blizzard could then also gate new Legendaries to a minimum Torment level, so that if you want [Uber Awesome Witch Doctor Rattle of Splattering], you have to hit Torment 96 before it'll drop, and more powerful versions of it continue to drop at higher Torment levels, as well as new Legendaries that are only possible in those higher difficulties.

THIS is what I'd like to see from Diablo 3. Each difficulty level is dropping items whose power is tied to that difficulty, with the purpose of preparing you for the next highest difficulty. Greater Rifts continue to exist for the purpose of bragging rights, showing you've completed a given one in a given time, and perhaps even continuing to be a source of Legendary gems as further incentive.

Patches become a chance to introduce a couple new environments, a few new Legendaries, couple new monsters, and small tweaks to the existing classes.

Retail expansions become a new Act to the story, major story advancements, a larger number of new environments, creatures, major class changes, a larger number of new Legendaries, and the introduction of one or two new classes.

I don't think it'll ever happen that way, but I continue to hope and dream.
haha, good thing i'm not tthe only one who got really annoyed by the "trade" part........
1. Remove overpowered stat increases from Paragon.
2. Remove EXP from Greater Rifts.
3. Create new game type for GRifts(campaign, adventurer, greater rifts)
4. Increase player cap for adventurer games to 8 (more exp per player, less of an edge for botters)
5. Suddenly D3 has 2 end games, one for GRift leaderboards, and another for paragon leaderboards.

Players who enjoy gimmicky clunky builds, skipping through packs of monsters, skipping every other elite pack, and sweet bitter RNG, can work towards the Greater Rift leaderboards.

Players who enjoy a wide variety of fun to play builds, freedom to customize, playing with others in public or private games, and grinding exp for months to finally ding 99.... have a whole new way to play D3.

I can dream. In the meantime, just installed Diablo 2 ^_^,
02/28/2016 07:53 AMPosted by Angel
I didn't make up statistics, you just did.


Where is the source for your assertion that 99% of D1 and D2 players do not regard D3 as a sequel of the series?

Answer: there is none. You made it up.

I know that I really should stop posting in this idiotic thread, but it is just so hard to let dumb stuff like that go unanswered.

We get it: you hate the game. The OP hates the game. Plenty of people do not. Time to move on guys.

I am fortunate. I have loved all of them and I still enjoy D3, even in its imperfect state. Sucks to be you I guess.
Power creep is introduced mainly to remove diffrences of balance in previous patch. Inbalance often happends when players find new builds mid patch. Also if old stuff would be better then new stuff then there wont be anything to do. Just saying...
02/22/2016 07:57 AMPosted by Jumpman
We we asked for an endless dungeon game mode which could have been added without much balancing needed. However; what we got instead were rifts which were a great middle ground. We never asked for you to start adding endless power creep's into the game and introduce a greater rift mode. Whats next for season 5? Super duper greater rifts?


The problem is to some degree the players. If you have all of the best gear in the game. Add in the fact that there is no way of making that gear any better. If endless dungeons are there just for the sake of doing them. But at the same time your character is not making any progress. Then what is left, you have to play a different build. Which for some it would mean playing a weaker build and they won't do that. So that means stop playing the game because without any changes to builds or gear that means the same builds dominate throughout all eternity.

02/22/2016 07:57 AMPosted by Jumpman
This game is called Diablo not demons; these types of game modes do not belong is a Diablo game. Diablo needs to get back to its Diablo roots. Not this unlimited paragon/Unlimited Grift/BOA/No Trade/No chat rooms/No 8 player games/No crowd control/skill cooldown/easy mode/fully geared within a few hours type of Anti-Diablo gameplay.


I know that a lot of players were looking for either a game that was a prettier version of D2:LOD. Or a game that plays so close to D2:LOD that is it almost identical to D2:LOD. Blizz didn't make that game nor will they ever make that game.
03/05/2016 09:54 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
02/22/2016 07:57 AMPosted by Jumpman
We we asked for an endless dungeon game mode which could have been added without much balancing needed. However; what we got instead were rifts which were a great middle ground. We never asked for you to start adding endless power creep's into the game and introduce a greater rift mode. Whats next for season 5? Super duper greater rifts?


The problem is to some degree the players. If you have all of the best gear in the game. Add in the fact that there is no way of making that gear any better. If endless dungeons are there just for the sake of doing them. But at the same time your character is not making any progress. Then what is left, you have to play a different build. Which for some it would mean playing a weaker build and they won't do that. So that means stop playing the game because without any changes to builds or gear that means the same builds dominate throughout all eternity.

02/22/2016 07:57 AMPosted by Jumpman
This game is called Diablo not demons; these types of game modes do not belong is a Diablo game. Diablo needs to get back to its Diablo roots. Not this unlimited paragon/Unlimited Grift/BOA/No Trade/No chat rooms/No 8 player games/No crowd control/skill cooldown/easy mode/fully geared within a few hours type of Anti-Diablo gameplay.


I know that a lot of players were looking for either a game that was a prettier version of D2:LOD. Or a game that plays so close to D2:LOD that is it almost identical to D2:LOD. Blizz didn't make that game nor will they ever make that game.


We didn't ask for d3 to become Diablo 2, all we wanted was for Diablo 3 to resemble it's predecessors and considering that Diablo 3 wouldn't even exist without the previous two games it's a stretch to come out and complain about the original Diablo 1/2 fans when it was those fans who bought up all the d3 sales at lunch.

16m people felt ripped off when they realized that the game had transformed into another game. This was a sequal not a brand new game. If this game was sold with the name "Demons" Diablo fans wouldn't say why isn't this like Diablo... And guys because of the name change. What we got was a complete rip off from the original franchise.

How would you feel if disney decided to change the Star Wars series (when bought) and turn it into a series about ghosts and goblins? It wouldn't make the entire fan base very angry. Well that's exactly what blizzard did with their own product (which is worse since they made the first two). This game is so full of anti-Diablo mechanics it's not even funny anymore. Cooldowns don't belong in a Diablo world, crowd control nerfed into oblivion and actually belongs in a Diablo world, trading/pvp belongs in the Diablo word, endless greater rifts and paragons definitely do not belong in a Diablo world and neither does the stupid pony level. This was entirety made up with Anti-Diablo mechanics with vanilla and the new dev team doubled up on it with ROS.
03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
We didn't ask for d3 to become Diablo 2, all we wanted was for Diablo 3 to resemble it's predecessors and considering that Diablo 3 wouldn't even exist without the previous two games it's a stretch to come out and complain about the original Diablo 1/2 fans when it was those fans who bought up all the d3 sales at lunch.


You like others keep talking about the first line which says a prettier clone of D2:LOD. Trust me a lot of players were no doubt expecting it. Because I have seen my fair share of threads that have been asking for just that. From ones asking for 8 player parties, stat point assignment, skill trees and skill points, runes with rune words, etc... All the way to those that said the first expansion should've been made in a way that vanilla would've been Leah's bad dream and you would have D2:LOD all over again from all of the mechanics to even offline mode. It is like saying D2:LOD was a perfect game that only needed minor tweaks.

You miss the second part of the line that said a game that almost plays identical to D2:LOD. That line at leaves some room for change. But from what I have read in some threads that change would be so small that it would only be minor tweaks.

Both lines are like saying the features make the game Diablo. It is like saying I could take all of the mechanics and features of Diablo 3 and tack them onto the world of Wildstar. Using all of the classes and NPC's of that game and call it a Diablo game. Even though none of the lore or NPC's from Diablo would ever make an appearance.

I say that the story is what makes a game the game that it is. Why, is that so with me, that is because I have seen this franchise change from D1's days. I could make the same argument that D2 wasn't a diablo game. Why, there was no spell book where you could learn all of the spells regardless of what class you were. There was no spell books to pick up so you could use them to both learn and improve on those spells. There were no caps to stats, so that only one or a few classes could learn all of the spells and have them at max power.

There were no attribute potions that could take your attributes to the cap which went beyond the assignable stat points you received. D2 had open areas that D1 never had. Why have open areas when diablo is a dungeon crawler. You must only have dungeons for a dungeon crawler. I could go on and on but I am certain you see where I am going with this point.

03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
16m people felt ripped off when they realized that the game had transformed into another game. This was a sequal not a brand new game. If this game was sold with the name "Demons" Diablo fans wouldn't say why isn't this like Diablo... And guys because of the name change. What we got was a complete rip off from the original franchise.


Just look at the above comment. You still have the story and lore of diablo. You still have the characters from the diablo world. So that makes it a diablo game.

If it is features alone that make a game the game it is then you could call any game that has similar features more than just a diablo clone you would call it diablo even though diablo characters or diablo himself would never make an appearance.

03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
How would you feel if disney decided to change the Star Wars series (when bought) and turn it into a series about ghosts and goblins? It wouldn't make the entire fan base very angry. Well that's exactly what blizzard did with their own product (which is worse since they made the first two)


Here you are equating features=story. Sorry but the features doesn't equal story. That is a straw man type of fallacy.

Further Blizz North which was originally Condor before Blizz Irvine bought them out. If Blizz Irvine (later Activision/Blizzard) never bought out Condor and gave them the name of Blizz North Diablo would've never seen the light of day. This means that Blizz North's team was what made D1 and D2:LOD, instead of Activision/Blizzard making all three games. That is why there was no surprise to me that it would be a totally different game. Add in the fact that the world would change in ways that even Tyrael could not foresee. Even if Blizz North made the game I have no doubt that it would've changed in ways that even we could not foresee. At least one member of the big four of Blizz North confirmed that if they had done D3 it would've been an MMO. That means this game was destine to be online only.

03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
This game is so full of anti-Diablo mechanics it's not even funny anymore. Cooldowns don't belong in a Diablo world, crowd control nerfed into oblivion and actually belongs in a Diablo world, trading/pvp belongs in the Diablo word, endless greater rifts and paragons definitely do not belong in a Diablo world and neither does the stupid pony level. This was entirety made up with Anti-Diablo mechanics with vanilla and the new dev team doubled up on it with ROS.


I am sure that by now you fully understand that I disagree with features making the game the game that it is. Where they are permanently married to the game. Married in such a way that you only can make the slightest tweaks to them. Also don't dare ever remove them. Even if other games come along and have better arpg mechanics. You still can't change it because it is not the Diablo way of doing things. Like those features become a new religion that can only be alter very, very, very little.

Finally the cow level was originally done as a joke. IIRC it was never intended to be a place to level and get a lot of good gear. The only thing that the pony level done was to take that cow level's joke to a new high.
03/06/2016 11:57 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
We didn't ask for d3 to become Diablo 2, all we wanted was for Diablo 3 to resemble it's predecessors and considering that Diablo 3 wouldn't even exist without the previous two games it's a stretch to come out and complain about the original Diablo 1/2 fans when it was those fans who bought up all the d3 sales at lunch.


You like others keep talking about the first line which says a prettier clone of D2:LOD. Trust me a lot of players were no doubt expecting it. Because I have seen my fair share of threads that have been asking for just that. From ones asking for 8 player parties, stat point assignment, skill trees and skill points, runes with rune words, etc... All the way to those that said the first expansion should've been made in a way that vanilla would've been Leah's bad dream and you would have D2:LOD all over again from all of the mechanics to even offline mode. It is like saying D2:LOD was a perfect game that only needed minor tweaks.

You miss the second part of the line that said a game that almost plays identical to D2:LOD. That line at leaves some room for change. But from what I have read in some threads that change would be so small that it would only be minor tweaks.

Both lines are like saying the features make the game Diablo. It is like saying I could take all of the mechanics and features of Diablo 3 and tack them onto the world of Wildstar. Using all of the classes and NPC's of that game and call it a Diablo game. Even though none of the lore or NPC's from Diablo would ever make an appearance.

I say that the story is what makes a game the game that it is. Why, is that so with me, that is because I have seen this franchise change from D1's days. I could make the same argument that D2 wasn't a diablo game. Why, there was no spell book where you could learn all of the spells regardless of what class you were. There was no spell books to pick up so you could use them to both learn and improve on those spells. There were no caps to stats, so that only one or a few classes could learn all of the spells and have them at max power.

There were no attribute potions that could take your attributes to the cap which went beyond the assignable stat points you received. D2 had open areas that D1 never had. Why have open areas when diablo is a dungeon crawler. You must only have dungeons for a dungeon crawler. I could go on and on but I am certain you see where I am going with this point.

03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
16m people felt ripped off when they realized that the game had transformed into another game. This was a sequal not a brand new game. If this game was sold with the name "Demons" Diablo fans wouldn't say why isn't this like Diablo... And guys because of the name change. What we got was a complete rip off from the original franchise.


Just look at the above comment. You still have the story and lore of diablo. You still have the characters from the diablo world. So that makes it a diablo game.

If it is features alone that make a game the game it is then you could call any game that has similar features more than just a diablo clone you would call it diablo even though diablo characters or diablo himself would never make an appearance.

03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
How would you feel if disney decided to change the Star Wars series (when bought) and turn it into a series about ghosts and goblins? It wouldn't make the entire fan base very angry. Well that's exactly what blizzard did with their own product (which is worse since they made the first two)


Here you are equating features=story. Sorry but the features doesn't equal story. That is a straw man type of fallacy.

Further Blizz North which was originally Condor before Blizz Irvine bought them out. If Blizz Irvine (later Activision/Blizzard) never bought out Condor and gave them the name of Blizz North Diablo would've never seen the light of day. This means that Blizz North's team was what made D1 and D2:LOD, instead of Activision/Blizzard making all three games. That is why there was no surprise to me that it would be a totally different game. Add in the fact that the world would change in ways that even Tyrael could not foresee. Even if Blizz North made the game I have no doubt that it would've changed in ways that even we could not foresee. At least one member of the big four of Blizz North confirmed that if they had done D3 it would've been an MMO. That means this game was destine to be online only.

03/06/2016 07:41 AMPosted by Angel
This game is so full of anti-Diablo mechanics it's not even funny anymore. Cooldowns don't belong in a Diablo world, crowd control nerfed into oblivion and actually belongs in a Diablo world, trading/pvp belongs in the Diablo word, endless greater rifts and paragons definitely do not belong in a Diablo world and neither does the stupid pony level. This was entirety made up with Anti-Diablo mechanics with vanilla and the new dev team doubled up on it with ROS.


I am sure that by now you fully understand that I disagree with features making the game the game that it is. Where they are permanently married to the game. Married in such a way that you only can make the slightest tweaks to them. Also don't dare ever remove them. Even if other games come along and have better arpg mechanics. You still can't change it because it is not the Diablo way of doing things. Like those features become a new religion that can only be alter very, very, very little.

Finally the cow level was originally done as a joke. IIRC it was never intended to be a place to level and get a lot of good gear. The only thing that the pony level done was to take that cow level's joke to a new high.


The features do make the game as much as the story. D3 is nothing but grifts that is a feature, people no longer play the story because of how the games features do you charge you doing so.

Why do you think the two different cod series follow the same feature path... Black ops follows a certain path and modern warfare follows another. If features didn't matter there wouldnt be any reason to seperate these two and you might as well comebine them all with the same name. The story is just a portion of the game, the features map and make the game.
The game just needs to be scaled back to where there's a mid-game again in seasons. Everyone gets burnt out hitting end-game in a matter of a few days. Playing torment levels should last up to a month before it becomes a grindfest for stones.
Hero still spamming i see...
Still following me and downvoting everything I post, I see. I wish you had some sort of brain to argue with; I'd be a lot less tired with you that way.
We didn't ask for d3 to become Diablo 2, all we wanted was for Diablo 3 to resemble it's predecessors and considering that Diablo 3 wouldn't even exist without the previous two games it's a stretch to come out and complain about the original Diablo 1/2 fans when it was those fans who bought up all the d3 sales at lunch.


You like others keep talking about the first line which says a prettier clone of D2:LOD. Trust me a lot of players were no doubt expecting it. Because I have seen my fair share of threads that have been asking for just that. From ones asking for 8 player parties, stat point assignment, skill trees and skill points, runes with rune words, etc... All the way to those that said the first expansion should've been made in a way that vanilla would've been Leah's bad dream and you would have D2:LOD all over again from all of the mechanics to even offline mode. It is like saying D2:LOD was a perfect game that only needed minor tweaks.

You miss the second part of the line that said a game that almost plays identical to D2:LOD. That line at leaves some room for change. But from what I have read in some threads that change would be so small that it would only be minor tweaks.

Both lines are like saying the features make the game Diablo. It is like saying I could take all of the mechanics and features of Diablo 3 and tack them onto the world of Wildstar. Using all of the classes and NPC's of that game and call it a Diablo game. Even though none of the lore or NPC's from Diablo would ever make an appearance.

I say that the story is what makes a game the game that it is. Why, is that so with me, that is because I have seen this franchise change from D1's days. I could make the same argument that D2 wasn't a diablo game. Why, there was no spell book where you could learn all of the spells regardless of what class you were. There was no spell books to pick up so you could use them to both learn and improve on those spells. There were no caps to stats, so that only one or a few classes could learn all of the spells and have them at max power.

There were no attribute potions that could take your attributes to the cap which went beyond the assignable stat points you received. D2 had open areas that D1 never had. Why have open areas when diablo is a dungeon crawler. You must only have dungeons for a dungeon crawler. I could go on and on but I am certain you see where I am going with this point.


Chance to hit. Is this a Diablo 2 mechanic..?
No. It's a universally accepted, and important, roleplaying aspect.
It balances the flavors of combat ability, a character's ability to use a weapon proficiently, dodge, a character's ability to avoid enemy attacks, and combat experience, reflecting a character's ability to make hitting him harder.
Diablo 3 just dropped this ball completely.

Resistances that you have to balance and choose between.
Is this a Diablo 2 mechanic?
No. It's a universally accepted roleplaying element that's important in many of the best roleplaying games ever made.
...a cape of fire resistance. A powerful artifact, an amulet of cold immunity. A monster rising from a pool of lava, practically immune to all but the hottest of fires.
Diablo 1 and 2 did this pretty well.
Diablo 3 dropped the ball, and kicked it over the sideline while trying to pick it back up.

Diablo 2 didn't have spell books.
Sure. That WAS bad.
They could've allowed all characters to learn neutral spells, in addition to their class skills.
They could've had all the characters have different ways to gain power..:
Barbarians leveling up skills through use.
Necromancers leveling up skills through finding tomes, and through skill points.
Sorceresses leveling up skills like they currently do.
Assassins having skill damage based on their attributes...
Diablo 2 improved on Diablo 1's skill system, but not in all aspects, and it was far from perfect.
Diablo 2 dropped the ball, sure -- but they won the match.
Diablo 3 devs just looked at the skill system, and went: "Let's just move all power to the gear, and make mainstats the new +skills"...
They dropped the ball. Kicked it twice while trying to pick it back up, stepped on the ball while chasing it, fell backwards and crashed their head into the ground, the ball skitting and spinning away into the road. And we stood there, amazed, shocked, watching the ball heading downhill, and into the highway.

Diablo 1 had attribute caps for all characters.
Diablo 2 did not, but had the caps maxed by character level.
Diablo 3 has infinite attributes through infinite paragon levels.
And guess which game has the best attribute system of the three..?
Guess which has the second best..?
Diablo 2 has the best attribute system, followed by Diablo 1, and Diablo 3 had the worst attribute system.

In Diablo 1, skills improved on random drops and shrines.
In Diablo 2, skills improved on level-ups and with powerful endgame gear.
In Diablo 3, skills only improve on aquiring better gear.

In Diablo 2, most of the Diablo 1-like dungeons are considered to be the worst and/or most boring areas in the game.
Mausoleum. Jail. Worldstone Keep.

...

Mechanically, the Diablo games as roleplaying experiences are rated as follows:
1: Diablo 2: Great
2: Diablo 1: Good
3: Diablo 3: Shallow as hell

16m people felt ripped off when they realized that the game had transformed into another game. This was a sequal not a brand new game. If this game was sold with the name "Demons" Diablo fans wouldn't say why isn't this like Diablo... And guys because of the name change. What we got was a complete rip off from the original franchise.


Just look at the above comment. You still have the story and lore of diablo. You still have the characters from the diablo world. So that makes it a diablo game.

If it is features alone that make a game the game it is then you could call any game that has similar features more than just a diablo clone you would call it diablo even though diablo characters or diablo himself would never make an appearance.


This sounds like some sort of evil king trying to explain to their victims that he and his clergy are not villains, but heroes, trying to blame the victims for the situation they're in.
"I have granted you houses! Food! Security!"
...after waging war and forcing the peasants to fight in the front line, having the peasants and poor build forts for their own protection and luxurious castles for the king and his men, having lost most of the livestock and grain and fields, the surviving population only barely surviving because so many have died in opposition, war and diseases that the remaining resources barely suffice...

When the story is bad, barely any monsters can be reckognized from the previous games, they freaking remove the Fireball skill... put the sandbox nature of the Diablo games into a railroad... screw over every single one of the mechanics that made the previous Diablo games great...

If I were 18 years old right now and this was at release, and you said that stuff to my face -- I'd freaking slap you across the face for the insult.

Diablo 3 was worse for the Diablo series than the Phantom Menace was for Star Wars.

It's like watching the first and second Lord of the Rings movie -- and then... having THIS presented as the third movie...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2CnLUSfWQ

...
No. Worse.
Because that film actually tried to tell the story...

It's like Super Mario Bros 2 -- exept Super Mario Bros 2 at the very least was a coherent platforming experience, unlike Diablo 3's roleplaying...

...

...
I don't know of any disappointments in media history like Diablo 3:
Mechanically worse, and a completely different genre than the previous games:
ARPG --> ARPG --> Action Adventure
Blizzard can't not have powercreep and endless paragon.

As its only a month and half into season and look how high people are.

Without the mentioned stuff the game would literally have no value anymore.
People would quit.

But with how the game is made they cant currently do anything to keep players playing w/o the power creep and paragon leveling being uncapped.

any "huge" change to the system would not happen until the Xpac would hit.
Well I've been suggesting it all gets scaled back. A cleanup, if you will. Item drops and exp gains are essentially all that needs to be nerfed. Also, make sets rarer than legendaries and take away free sets. This will keep people in lower Torment levels longer, as well as providing something brand new with what's already there in abundance - the ability to use legendaries, at least until sets, now being rare, are found. It would make getting your first two pieces of a set special, not to mention your first full one, which you shouldn't get until you've played through most of the torment levels, imo.
03/10/2016 01:38 PMPosted by Hero
Well I've been suggesting it all gets scaled back. A cleanup, if you will. Item drops and exp gains are essentially all that needs to be nerfed. Also, make sets rarer than legendaries and take away free sets. This will keep people in lower Torment levels longer, as well as providing something brand new with what's already there in abundance - the ability to use legendaries, at least until sets, now being rare, are found. It would make getting your first two pieces of a set special, not to mention your first full one, which you shouldn't get until you've played through most of the torment levels, imo.


A stat squish would greatly benefit this game!
Power creep is inevitable. That's because your gear gets better, you get better. Plus the higher paragon levels give you more main stat. Nothing wrong with this, The alternative is to place caps on things. If that's the case--go back to D3V.

I bet that those that cry about power creep are under paragon 1000. When you get to paragon 1200 and still feel the same way about power creep, then I'll listen.

In Blizz's defense they made an effort to deal with the , so called 'power creep'. They added increasingly harder grifts.

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