Many people said it. I'm gonna say it again.

General Discussion
Disclaimer: Trolls don't waste your time.

This game is 1 step short of complete on just about everything.

Most people I think want to be able to make their own character. Not just click on monsters, and play it by ear, seeing as they go what could make their character strong and unique (since there is no story line interaction or immersion whatsoever) But this is not possible. Time and time again, due to either poor planning on Blizzards part, built in inflexibility of customization, or some other anomaly you are blocked from having any hope of creative process in this game.

Look at the leaderboards, at the top characters, you see 1 build dominating clear down the line. This is not a sign of creativity or flexibility. It's proof of the opposite.

I want to run cold damage build, but that doesn't work, not enough damage, I want to run meteors, but not only fire meteor, that doesn't work not enough damage not enough resource, not enough cooldown, or something. I want to run without a set, that doesn't work not enough of anything.

OK I concede, I won't do what I want. I will go try to see what the latest items are to see what builds Blizzard is supporting in this update, and what do I find? A few legendary affixes i'd like try to use, but can't, because it doesn't add up in some way or another. Do they give you a cool new bell and whistle, yes, but does that cut it? No. I can't put 2 armor items in the cub or I can't hold two swords, or two orbs or stack the items to make that other item work. I can't therefore use these legendary items. There is always something I have to leave out. Because not enough skills, not enough articles of gear, not enough damage, not enough life, not enough resource. Which makes the build not work.

I see a lot of people running the same build, the same items and doing the same thing over and over again. Is this fun? I don't think so. I think it suggests a level of incompetence in the game designers.

It's not that I even expect to have every whim of mine fulfilled, sure some things are not going to work, but to even be able to make a SINGLE build that works? That isn't the copy of someone else's build, or an older build, or not feel like i'm forced to use in order to be able to play at all, THAT would be nice. It'd be great LA LA LAND to have some options, to have 2 or 3 builds that work well. WOW!!

They advertised this game as one that had infinite options, 1 skill has 6 runes or so, that everything could work for you. FALSE.

You really ought to be able to choose any skill or combination thereof and given enough time make it work, the game GIVES you the impression you can. Simple fact is, you absolutely cannot. I don't even like some of the the skills, they are uncreative, dull, boring, sloppy, lazy, lack of imagination, lack of historical relevance, or just plain ridiculous, I'm mostly talking about the wizard, because that's all I play. The wizard skills are mostly ridiculous: Archon, Explosive blast (exploding? WTH?) wave of force, magic missile, shock pulse from d2 insults charged bolt, which you could actually upgrade to a high level and carpet the ground with electricity killing everything.

The absolutely ridiculous "storm armor" which used to be called "thunderstorm" in D2 (a very good skill) dressing itself as an armor skill, WHICH IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHY is this called "storm armor" guys? Hello? There is no armor component to it whatsoever. My god am I the guy who has to point this out?

Spectral blade would be cool if you didn't have to stand in front of the monster like a barbarian and engage them. What happened to that skill? No damage, no range, no speed (save recently with the two legendaries) Why even use a wizard and then imitate a melee fighter? OBVIOUSLY the blades should be long range!!! Wow guys, It's crap like this i'm talking about here. Just incomplete. Not there. Somebody lost the mojo.

Slow time is a great skill A+ on that one. And the energy armor is good design overall as well. NICE to see ice armor finally become relevant to d3 save the fact you absolutely have to wear the legendary ring halo. Finally it does something, but only that one rune that boosts armor is at all appealing.

Teleport was goofed up, putting a cooldown on it and limiting it's recast was a mistake. I see you no make it cost 25 ap with a new wand. Uh maybe that works for some, but my meteor doesn't take that well thanks to it's exorbitant costs per lousy meteor using what... 40 ap out of the 90 or so you are allotted at level 1? Who farted?

Oh and BTW I should be able to hostile anyone anytime and kill them save inside a town area. It should not be a kindergarten play pen for gods sake, what is this some kind of nanny's day care game teaching us how to be happy commune members? Again you insult your players intelligence and maturity.

Illusionist and mirror image was a creative one, good job on those. But not many people use them...

I never liked the laser skills ray of frost or disintegrate, but disintegrate obviously should be fire damage, nice to see at least one is now...
Arcane torrent is nice but it moves way way way too slow making you a target, too low damage, too high of a cost.
Diamond skin was great and has some mythological relevance so that is a good one, only problem is the cooldown renders it useless. Frost nova is OK. Twister and blizzard are ok, Familiar and magic weapon are OK. Black hole is... a little too science oriented for a Wizard imho, doesn't seem arcane maybe if it warped the ground tiles into a vortex going downward like a whirlpool and was renamed it would be cool. Shock pulse and magic missile should be just simply removed from the game, aside from glacial spike, which was the 2nd tier cold spell from d2 before frozen orb. Hyrda is a good one relevant to myth and wizardy imho.

The big galaxy looking orb thing is... just bizarre, i've never heard of wizards throwing galaxies at people, and I noticed the graphics were changed a bit, then you added frozen orb, thank god, but has a whimpy sound and looks like cotton fluff flying off a pillow or something not ice. But then you have the wiggling electric ball one.. from shock pulse and the toss a cannon ball on fire one, it's like insulting to people's intelligence it's so bad, and annoys me just looking at it. Boss said make new rune no matter what eh? lol

And then Diablo pitches itself as some sort of possible mythological significance and basis. I see almost no parallels in this game to much mythological stories... That was not the case for Diablo 2. Skills had some relevance to their characters, and somewhat fit the pseudo mythic narrative somewhat if only stretching it for it's video game madness a bit. I thought that was kinda the point. Go back in time and be a wizard or a warrior, or a "demon hunter" I guess you wanted to be original but why is that better than just an "archer"? D2 called it an Amazon... demon hunter is the dumbest thing i've ever seen.

Witch doctor is good creative work. Barbarian is great, but i'm not going to play it. Monk was cool, but I can't play that one either... just annoys me because the nature of this game is not martial in any way shape or form. If it was more like Tekkan or Street fighter where you had to do combos and hit at the right time and had move reversals etc. That would make it appreciate value.

What this all points to IMHO, is someone in that company is not doing a good job, and should not be there. Somebody is obstructing the common sense of the game development. Cutting out PVP, having an expansion and an update and still leaving things so limited. The storyline of connect the dots, zero player interaction, zero character development... I mean where did our heros even come from? Just walking down the road near New Tristam when zombies attack! The non-randomized dungeons.

D2 was better than this. It was inspiring, it had creative names of items, it had mythology, it had customization of builds, it had options, it had story. I'm done with D3. I'm giving up on finishing my character, because there is no way I can finish it. I can't do what I want. Not enough resource, not enough damage, not enough life, not enough patience. I'll pick it up in the next update or expansion 6 or 8 months from now, This one was supposed to be good, I actually tried the season getting a second character to level 70. I find out afterwards nothing is new except some annoying not worth struggling to complete set dungeons which award you some gimmick at the end.

And I will close with this... Blizzard cut PVP out of the game because it thought it was so low quality they couldn't bear putting their name on it. Diablo 3 is that same game. If it's so bad you cannot even release it to public, MAYBE someone isn't doing a good job in other areas as well. I don't want anyone to get fired. I just can't see any other root cause to all this. I don't' think my expectations are too high. All I expect is to be able to make a build however I want based on the skills that are optional to use. But I can't again because those stated limitations render you ineffective as you hit the ceiling maximum and only special builds reach higher.

The End.
d2 pvp was nice, and the games great but its graphics were a step lower, maybe d3 team spent all their time on making graphics amazing they didnt leave much room for anything else.who knows?

both games are essentially good, D2 is like something slow and awesome but takes forever to complete if you are solo, and even more time to grind out, plus theres item hunt, runewords to gather etc.

d3 is like, fun with your friends, more casual like but its gotten much better over the year. think about how far it came since Ros released

----sets that sucked were re-tuned. id list some, but essentially all were retuned.
----set dungeons were introduced - like them or hate them, atleast they provide a fun challenge if your bored
-----keywardens and hellfire rings/neck actually make sense now, machine hunting isnt a pain anymore
-----cow lvl portal anytime you have a weapon
-----vault portal
-----Grifts
-----legendary gems introduced
-----lon introduced for some builds, almost none but its a start
-----kanai's cube

just because you dislike some wizard skills graphics really doesnt count for much, i love them and think they are the best looking skills in the game, they dont get used often but hey, when they do i/m in awe.
02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
Look at the leaderboards, at the top characters, you see 1 build dominating clear down the line. This is not a sign of creativity or flexibility. It's proof of the opposite.
You look at the Leaderboards and don't understand what you really see. Leaderboards shows THE BEST result player can achieve. And of course the best can be only one. For example in current season difference between power of Barb's sets Raekor and MotE is ~3-5 GR levels. But only few people try to push leaderboards with MotE because it's still harder. It does not mean MotE has any gameplay problems with resource, CDR or smth, it's just mean MotE is a bit weaker.
You can see defferent builds playing T10, but in Leadearboards especially on top of it you will always see cloned builds.
These posts are a dime a dozen. Hopefully venting made you feel better. Although, I'm sure it hasn't. Not gonna reply to all the points you touched on, just the one or two that comes up a lot on the forums.

D2 came at a time when gaming was near its infancy. You really can't compare d3 to d2. It's literally impossible. Mostly due to how technology has evolved and how it has impacted our lives. You're not gonna get that same amazement and feel that you did back in 1996 when Diablo first released. Seriously, what other game could you compare it with? CS?Doom? Heretic? Rise of the triads? Baldur's gate(1998)? One of the main things that made Diablo 2 inspiring was the time it was launched. Motorolla and Nokia were the kings of the mobile phones near that time. God, I feel old now.

Diablo was a game changer to the arpg genre. Fast forward to 2012. You can't expect the developers to keep elements from the older installments. That would mean the game would stagnate and decay, not saying that hasn't happened, it has. I am not in any way implying the developers are devoid of fault here. Just saying that their design philosophies had to change and adapt to the times. (Since, technology has become available and accessible to majority of the world). Implementing those design philosophies/elements though is where they stumbled.

You also have to take into consideration that the original developers were not the same people who created D3 and that the current developers aren't the same people who created D3. They are doing what they can with a product which was both highly acclaimed and criticized.

You also might have spent thousands of hours on the game back in the 90s or early 2000s. But, seriously, why did you think that was the case? Because there was nothing else to do, no other game that could hold your attention for that amount of time. Now, in 2016 there are so many games that are heavyweights in their own right and more games slated to be released. Some of which are genre bending and revolutionary in their own right.

30 million copies sold. Some of that were people who had played the other 2 installments and a large portion of people were the people who heard about the previous installments through the first group of people. It's no wonder that most of the people still playing today belong to the first group of people.

I think people keep comparing this game to d2 to reminisce of the hey day of gaming. We have come a long way from those days and should look to the future. I put in close to 4k hours into D3. Played from launch, took a few breaks (life,work,etc,etc) but always came back. Until it recently hit me. I don't find the game fun. Not anymore. It took me a long time to accept it. So I decided to move on. The bottom line is this. If you're not having fun, move on. Only reason why I still stalk these forums is cause I have made a bunch of friends on my D3 journey and the forums give me a way to communicate to those friends and the HC community which has shaped my D3 experience in a good way.

I wish you the best in your gaming journey. Good luck.

Regards,
H4mz
Damn you complain alot man half that is your opinion. "I want this skill removed this skill sucks etc". Well become a d3 designer and do something about it.
too long, didnt read?
02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
The End.
Good deal. :)
Holy crap that was a long winded post full of rose colored glasses. Let me address some of those:

02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
Look at the leaderboards, at the top characters, you see 1 build dominating clear down the line. This is not a sign of creativity or flexibility. It's proof of the opposite.


Uh that's how it's always going to be. Someone discover that one awesome build that forges ahead and everyone will copy it. It's not proof of anything other than the human nature of "me too".

02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
I see a lot of people running the same build, the same items and doing the same thing over and over again. Is this fun? I don't think so. I think it suggests a level of incompetence in the game designers.


You had a lot of this in Diablo 2. People would look at the fan websites to see what kind of build people were running, how they prioritized their stats, and would run the same bosses over and over again for their targeted drops. How many Andariel runs did you do for rings? How about countess runs for runes? Or pindle, or meph, or baal, etc...

02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
It'd be great LA LA LAND to have some options, to have 2 or 3 builds that work well. WOW!!


Every class does have a few builds that work well. They all may not be leaderboard topping builds, but you can get far with them. Some classes have even more builds for doing things like speedy death breath farming just as an example.

And really, everything else you talk about is rose colored nostalgia. Diablo 2 had a lot of good customization, but most of the fun builds you would try probably didn't make it past nightmare without help. I know this because I tried making a lot of my own fun builds. Once I'd get to Duriel on Nightmare I'd need help with every boss battle afterwards. People thought these builds were neat when they'd see it in game, would help me out, and tell me good luck. We'd discuss how the build shouldn't work past a certain point and it usually never did. You have the same thing here in Diablo 3. It's not done in the same way, but you can still do something similar.
02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan

This game is 1 step short of complete on just about everything.


If Frodo had a choice, he'd still take the ring to Mordor over fixing this game.
LoL a wall of drivel that we have heard before many times. he should go back to D2 max his two skills and the max his two synergies. Str to equip dex to block and the rest in vit.

The he can go kill mobs that are developed to die to that formula
D3 is simply over his head.
For me diablo3 is a good game for plaing some hours, but is so far to be fantastic.....would be enough add contents for move the focus from "unidirectional power char",i stay really try to understand it....I did not believe it but maybe is true....maybe the community stage the wings, i can only say that personally i have do all that a player can do in proposing solutions that improve this product, i m not live in a game or in a forum and i am tired to spend more words
I wish all those. really, happy good game.
02/28/2016 01:23 AMPosted by GYGOS
But only few people try to push leaderboards with MotE because it's still harder. It does not mean MotE has any gameplay problems with resource, CDR or smth, it's just mean MotE is a bit weaker.

MOTE has some advantages over Raekor (such as not being oneshotted by the RG lol); however, in terms of damage, it is not a bit weaker, but a lot weaker. People have done GR90 with Raekor. The highest clear I found for MOTE was 83. Enemies in GR90 have triple the HP of those in GR83 (17% HP increase per level) and do almost twice as much damage (10% increase per level).
Wall of text to stronk, could not read. Please someone TL:DR it for me.
02/28/2016 06:00 AMPosted by Zorak
Wall of text to stronk, could not read. Please someone TL:DR it for me.


Not worth my time to do it, either.
02/28/2016 05:56 AMPosted by TheNoseKnows
The highest clear I found for MOTE was 83.
I know player who succesfully finished 85 GR with MotE. And he said that even 87 is real with rift fishing. But top players don't want to spend hundreds keys for fishing with the not the strongest build.

02/28/2016 05:56 AMPosted by TheNoseKnows
Enemies in GR90 have triple the HP of those in GR83
And what? Tripple hp does not mean you need triple time or triple damage to complete it.
You realize that no matter how you balance something... When you're racing the clock... There's one build that will be the best. However... Look at DH... UE and M6 was doing awesome until someone figures out you can use FoK and keep your HP near death, crit 100% chance and dominate! That's the creative part. Maybe you're not that special, as most of us aren't.

When you want to run speed TX, your precious leaderboard builds won't work. When you want to farm DBs, they won't work either... That's diversity right there. I'm not sure why you're crying so much but at this point were out of tissues.

Diablo 2 has the same diversity. You don't pvp with MF gear. Everyone wears vamp gaze, shaftstop, etc. every now and then someone realizes a CCB of quickness is better than grandfather, and a new build happens... It's the same !@#$ on here. Stop crying and find a new innovative combo of items that works and share it!

Hell, there was a wiz who used yangs! I'll bet he took all the energy you spent crying and did something cool with his energy instead. Are you catching on yet?
02/28/2016 02:47 AMPosted by Sÿlak
02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
The End.
Good deal. :)


Had the same thought, +1
People should read what original post says , it's mostly true
02/28/2016 12:20 AMPosted by HanbulliHan
Disclaimer: Trolls don't waste your time.

This game is 1 step short of complete on just about everything.

Most people I think want to be able to make their own character. Not just click on monsters, and play it by ear, seeing as they go what could make their character strong and unique (since there is no story line interaction or immersion whatsoever) But this is not possible. Time and time again, due to either poor planning on Blizzards part, built in inflexibility of customization, or some other anomaly you are blocked from having any hope of creative process in this game.

Look at the leaderboards, at the top characters, you see 1 build dominating clear down the line. This is not a sign of creativity or flexibility. It's proof of the opposite.

I want to run cold damage build, but that doesn't work, not enough damage, I want to run meteors, but not only fire meteor, that doesn't work not enough damage not enough resource, not enough cooldown, or something. I want to run without a set, that doesn't work not enough of anything.

OK I concede, I won't do what I want. I will go try to see what the latest items are to see what builds Blizzard is supporting in this update, and what do I find? A few legendary affixes i'd like try to use, but can't, because it doesn't add up in some way or another. Do they give you a cool new bell and whistle, yes, but does that cut it? No. I can't put 2 armor items in the cub or I can't hold two swords, or two orbs or stack the items to make that other item work. I can't therefore use these legendary items. There is always something I have to leave out. Because not enough skills, not enough articles of gear, not enough damage, not enough life, not enough resource. Which makes the build not work.

I see a lot of people running the same build, the same items and doing the same thing over and over again. Is this fun? I don't think so. I think it suggests a level of incompetence in the game designers.

It's not that I even expect to have every whim of mine fulfilled, sure some things are not going to work, but to even be able to make a SINGLE build that works? That isn't the copy of someone else's build, or an older build, or not feel like i'm forced to use in order to be able to play at all, THAT would be nice. It'd be great LA LA LAND to have some options, to have 2 or 3 builds that work well. WOW!!

They advertised this game as one that had infinite options, 1 skill has 6 runes or so, that everything could work for you. FALSE.

You really ought to be able to choose any skill or combination thereof and given enough time make it work, the game GIVES you the impression you can. Simple fact is, you absolutely cannot. I don't even like some of the the skills, they are uncreative, dull, boring, sloppy, lazy, lack of imagination, lack of historical relevance, or just plain ridiculous, I'm mostly talking about the wizard, because that's all I play. The wizard skills are mostly ridiculous: Archon, Explosive blast (exploding? WTH?) wave of force, magic missile, shock pulse from d2 insults charged bolt, which you could actually upgrade to a high level and carpet the ground with electricity killing everything.

The absolutely ridiculous "storm armor" which used to be called "thunderstorm" in D2 (a very good skill) dressing itself as an armor skill, WHICH IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHY is this called "storm armor" guys? Hello? There is no armor component to it whatsoever. My god am I the guy who has to point this out?

Spectral blade would be cool if you didn't have to stand in front of the monster like a barbarian and engage them. What happened to that skill? No damage, no range, no speed (save recently with the two legendaries) Why even use a wizard and then imitate a melee fighter? OBVIOUSLY the blades should be long range!!! Wow guys, It's crap like this i'm talking about here. Just incomplete. Not there. Somebody lost the mojo.

Slow time is a great skill A+ on that one. And the energy armor is good design overall as well. NICE to see ice armor finally become relevant to d3 save the fact you absolutely have to wear the legendary ring halo. Finally it does something, but only that one rune that boosts armor is at all appealing.

Teleport was goofed up, putting a cooldown on it and limiting it's recast was a mistake. I see you no make it cost 25 ap with a new wand. Uh maybe that works for some, but my meteor doesn't take that well thanks to it's exorbitant costs per lousy meteor using what... 40 ap out of the 90 or so you are allotted at level 1? Who farted?

Oh and BTW I should be able to hostile anyone anytime and kill them save inside a town area. It should not be a kindergarten play pen for gods sake, what is this some kind of nanny's day care game teaching us how to be happy commune members? Again you insult your players intelligence and maturity.

Illusionist and mirror image was a creative one, good job on those. But not many people use them...

I never liked the laser skills ray of frost or disintegrate, but disintegrate obviously should be fire damage, nice to see at least one is now...
Arcane torrent is nice but it moves way way way too slow making you a target, too low damage, too high of a cost.
Diamond skin was great and has some mythological relevance so that is a good one, only problem is the cooldown renders it useless. Frost nova is OK. Twister and blizzard are ok, Familiar and magic weapon are OK. Black hole is... a little too science oriented for a Wizard imho, doesn't seem arcane maybe if it warped the ground tiles into a vortex going downward like a whirlpool and was renamed it would be cool. Shock pulse and magic missile should be just simply removed from the game, aside from glacial spike, which was the 2nd tier cold spell from d2 before frozen orb. Hyrda is a good one relevant to myth and wizardy imho.

The big galaxy looking orb thing is... just bizarre, i've never heard of wizards throwing galaxies at people, and I noticed the graphics were changed a bit, then you added frozen orb, thank god, but has a whimpy sound and looks like cotton fluff flying off a pillow or something not ice. But then you have the wiggling electric ball one.. from shock pulse and the toss a cannon ball on fire one, it's like insulting to people's intelligence it's so bad, and annoys me just looking at it. Boss said make new rune no matter what eh? lol

And then Diablo pitches itself as some sort of possible mythological significance and basis. I see almost no parallels in this game to much mythological stories... That was not the case for Diablo 2. Skills had some relevance to their characters, and somewhat fit the pseudo mythic narrative somewhat if only stretching it for it's video game madness a bit. I thought that was kinda the point. Go back in time and be a wizard or a warrior, or a "demon hunter" I guess you wanted to be original but why is that better than just an "archer"? D2 called it an Amazon... demon hunter is the dumbest thing i've ever seen.

Witch doctor is good creative work. Barbarian is great, but i'm not going to play it. Monk was cool, but I can't play that one either... just annoys me because the nature of this game is not martial in any way shape or form. If it was more like Tekkan or Street fighter where you had to do combos and hit at the right time and had move reversals etc. That would make it appreciate value.

What this all points to IMHO, is someone in that company is not doing a good job, and should not be there. Somebody is obstructing the common sense of the game development. Cutting out PVP, having an expansion and an update and still leaving things so limited. The storyline of connect the dots, zero player interaction, zero character development... I mean where did our heros even come from? Just walking down the road near New Tristam when zombies attack! The non-randomized dungeons.

D2 was better than this. It was inspiring, it had creative names of items, it had mythology, it had customization of builds, it had options, it had story. I'm done with D3. I'm giving up on finishing my character, because there is no way I can finish it. I can't do what I want. Not enough resource, not enough damage, not enough life, not enough patience. I'll pick it up in the next update or expansion 6 or 8 months from now, This one was supposed to be good, I actually tried the season getting a second character to level 70. I find out afterwards nothing is new except some annoying not worth struggling to complete set dungeons which award you some gimmick at the end.

And I will close with this... Blizzard cut PVP out of the game because it thought it was so low quality they couldn't bear putting their name on it. Diablo 3 is that same game. If it's so bad you cannot even release it to public, MAYBE someone isn't doing a good job in other areas as well. I don't want anyone to get fired. I just can't see any other root cause to all this. I don't' think my expectations are too high. All I expect is to be able to make a build however I want based on the skills that are optional to use. But I can't again because those stated limitations render you ineffective as you hit the ceiling maximum and only special builds reach higher.

The End.

I like cats.

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