Actually, LoN ruined crusader class for S5

Crusader
Finally Crusader is top dog, & people want to nerf the build that make us top dog....

LoN Bomb is amazing in Tx speed run, amazing in Bounty, amazing in GR, but damn, I do not like it, so nerf it.

Anyway, @ Jay. I do know about the LoN Strafe Fan of knife build, since I play Dh, but the playstyle is so negative that few people play it.

From what I heard, the table topper have to keep his health constantly below 25% to confirm crits for the leg effect of Haori, because fan of knive will stack up to 30, so you need 2 CoE cycle, and when it release, you want it to always crits.

I am not dismissing viable LoN build for Dh. I love to try a good one. The play style of UE & Murander are so dull I did not play my Dh after I clear the 55 GR conquest objective using both sets.
i don't think anyone has mentioned part of the problem being Augments.

Fully augmenting a set of gear takes a lot of time. That's like 230 empowered rifts and never failing an upgrade to get level 70s.

LoN bomb doubles as a speed build and grift pushing build, so augmenting it makes a lot of sense. Afterall, it will provide an easier path for upgrading future gems faster and higher. Leveling gems for another set's augment is very tedious though and can detract people from playing other builds seriously. They are left to play the only build they have optimized for progression.

There are some, like myself, who are trying to play multiple builds and augment them, but I think those people are a minority. That is why you see a really large LoN Bomb representation IMO. High grift ceiling + Augments making it difficult to optimize a second set of gear.
Maybe I exaggerated a little in my opening post, jay. I'd prefer getting buffs to each set aswell but they never get it done. By clearing mid 80s I meant w/o paragon 1.8k+ and w/o fishing (meaning 90++ for high paragon guys that fish a lot).

Well LoN is obviously broken (in the eyes of devs) because it outperforms all sets by 10-15 GR levels and they clearly didn't want that. There was a tweet by Yang a few days ago where he said it should be a set alternative. Its not. It replaces every other gearing option. And if this happens I think they didn't intend making it so strong. It actually does affect me, I'm not sure what you mean. I stopped playing season/2.4 because I'm tired of the gameplay and this one-build-class. Others classes except barb don't really interest me.

Sure, leave LoN bomb as is but they should make sure that there are more options for any game mode. And that probably won't happen. 2.5 won't be that big I think?

Again, I obviously do want the crusader to be a top class. Thats why I said mid 80s by default which is easily in the early 90s with fishing, augments and high paragon. And I do hope that we will get more LoN builds that actually have active gameplay.

Finally Crusader is top dog, & people want to nerf the build that make us top dog....

LoN Bomb is amazing in Tx speed run, amazing in Bounty, amazing in GR, but damn, I do not like it, so nerf it.

.


Do you notice something...? LoN bomb is 'amazin' in every game mode. It doesn't make sense to play anything else because this thing just outperforms everything by a huge degree. Obviously I don't want it to be taken away with no replacement. Most sets need buffs and changes. And then we probably have other amazing builds that perform similarly with active gameplay.
02/28/2016 04:53 AMPosted by WalkinTall
Maybe I exaggerated a little in my opening post, jay. I'd prefer getting buffs to each set aswell but they never get it done. By clearing mid 80s I meant w/o paragon 1.8k+ and w/o fishing (meaning 90++ for high paragon guys that fish a lot).

Well LoN is obviously broken (in the eyes of devs) because it outperforms all sets by 10-15 GR levels and they clearly didn't want that. There was a tweet by Yang a few days ago where he said it should be a set alternative. Its not. It replaces every other gearing option. And if this happens I think they didn't intend making it so strong. It actually does affect me, I'm not sure what you mean. I stopped playing season/2.4 because I'm tired of the gameplay and this one-build-class. Others classes except barb don't really interest me.

Sure, leave LoN bomb as is but they should make sure that there are more options for any game mode. And that probably won't happen. 2.5 won't be that big I think?

Again, I obviously do want the crusader to be a top class. Thats why I said mid 80s by default which is easily in the early 90s with fishing, augments and high paragon. And I do hope that we will get more LoN builds that actually have active gameplay.

Finally Crusader is top dog, & people want to nerf the build that make us top dog....

LoN Bomb is amazing in Tx speed run, amazing in Bounty, amazing in GR, but damn, I do not like it, so nerf it.

.


Do you notice something...? LoN bomb is 'amazin' in every game mode. It doesn't make sense to play anything else because this thing just outperforms everything by a huge degree. Obviously I don't want it to be taken away with no replacement. Most sets need buffs and changes. And then we probably have other amazing builds that perform similarly with active gameplay.


Normally you can see the forrest for the trees in regards to game balance, which is why I posted the way I did. The LON situation is frustrating but after the ptr and the feedback that was provided regarding this class I'm not sure what the devs saw in the other sets that would let them compete with LON in the live release. I'm not interested in speculating myself as to the decision making logic in the way Crusaders went live in 2.4 because with all the data it was clear there were still many short comings with the sets.

Interesting that John Yang would tweet that after all the ignored feedback. It really makes me question the decision making process and the people making them. It also makes those people look inept. As usual, in the case of this class. I went and looked at twitter, sure enough that tweet is there. Couldn't resist bringing up the ignored ptr feedback.
Tbh I think the Crusader com could balance the Sets way better than the Devs. The problem is, once PTR is live the patch is 'finished' internally and they are moving on to the next patch while PTR only gets small adjustments..
Lon bombard seems weird, but I think Lon builds should be end game, they are much harder to gear for , than sets .
Crusaders just need a complete do over.. Less cool downs for starters and more melee spenders.
All shields should have 75-95% damage mitigation on block. All cruasder shield should have +damage like Mojo or orbs.

Its also rediculious you get more DPS with a single hand + offhand with a Witch doctor or wizard, then a Crusaders 2hand with Shield. Almos all leg off hand has massive damage modified 400-500 damage, basically become like having a 2 hander + shield, minus the 20% damage penalty.
i feel also there are way too many skills / runes for a crusader which are totally useless ... i mean every class got these dead skills .. but i feel crus got way too much of them :(
All shields should have 75-95% damage mitigation on block. All cruasder shield should have +damage like Mojo or orbs.

Its also rediculious you get more DPS with a single hand + offhand with a Witch doctor or wizard, then a Crusaders 2hand with Shield. Almos all leg off hand has massive damage modified 400-500 damage, basically become like having a 2 hander + shield, minus the 20% damage penalty.


Its been this way for some time. That -20% to damage increased by skills never goes away and was never justified as a substitute for move speed debuff which was itself not well thought out. Equip of a shield =/= 20% damage increased by skill. Equip of a shield =/= +20% damage in that multiplier grouping and it never did. With certain rolls you could get that number in sheet damage, which isn't DIBS. Point being, never a raw flat 20% increase in damage with equip of a shield in relation to other classes and their options.
Put the same single hand weapon (with the appropriate main stats) into WD & WiZ then on a Crusader, you will notice a about 30-35% drop of sheet DPS, because Mojo & Orbs have build in 400-500 damage.

It would have been okayish, if shield provide unparalleled defense, to make up the difference in power output, but its not.

Shield block has been poorly implemented (not design for higher GR) & plague the class til today. To add salt to injury, the Crusader passive tree is fill with many junk shield base passive.

If you play other classes, passive slots are highly contested, for crusader, you know exactly which to put in. Hardly any meaningful competition for places.
Crusader sets wouldn't be 10-15 GR's behind LoN if Blizzard actually listened to feedback. During the final month of PTR there was absolutely no balance changes made. Basically, players tested for a month for no reason because Blizzard came off holidays and then released the patch without balancing anything.
I agree with you that it should not be outperforming the sets but be on the same level. What I do not agree is that they nerf it to the ground. Why would you even recommend that when other classes are pushing about equal to this build. I enjoy the build and play it regularly but I do prefer Blessed Shield which coincidentally also uses LoN.

What they should do is bring the other sets up to par doing 85-90 like the other classes. But then again all the other classes seem to suffer the same fate as 1 build to rule them all for GR climbing. Blizz needs to do a better job balancing the sets. Hell they all do not need to do 90 but should not be stuck in the mid 70s.

Also what Rav said. It takes a lot of time to farm those keys, level those gems, then augment each piece. I have 2 sets augmented right now. First Augemented my Blessed Shield build with 50-60 ge,s so its capable to do 70 then leveled 70 gems for LoN Bomb to do 75-80. Now Im going to level a support build with level 80 gems and this leap frogging is taking a lot of time and effort haha but I guess this is what Blizz has inended. I feel dirty augmenting my LoN bomb build with 80s now I would rather use it on a fresh build. We are back to the Paragon per character instead of account wide. You feel like your wasting time using other classes besides the one that was fully augmented. What solution do you think they will do. Perhaps Augment a slot ie gloves, boots etc. Make the augment more expensive but it will be account wide? Then you dont feel to bad augmenting the same slot again since it will affect all characters.

Cheers,
CC-
LoN Bomb is way too efficient at everything be it speed farming or clearing 80+ GRs. Lack of choice is the problem to me. If you are not LoN Bomb crusader season 5 you doing it wrong.

Can't even make a useful group support out of rolands set, because other classes can do it better. It's all about LoN this season...

In the future if Blizzard gets their math right, it'd be cool to see many build variations competing against one another in solo leaderboards. Right now on euro all top 1000 crusader players are LoN bombers.
LoN Bomb is awful playstyle. I got gears and tested Invoker, BS, Roland and then Bomb and in my opinion Bomb is by far the most boring one.

I chose to play LoN BS for groups and I'm sure it's possible to clear lower lvl 90 grifts, highly dependable of a great map density though. Soloed 78, but could probably go as far as low 80's with optimized gear and patience.

I just wish Crusader was a decent and viable variation for high grifts, either in terms of dmg dealing or support.
If anything, I think LoN Bomb is actually what SAVED crusader for this season.

I'm not a fan at all of the gameplay. But when you have geared other characters for GR, you quickly realize that something is wrong with crusader's sets compared to other classes which are way more fun or efficient.

Without the promise of LoN Bomb awesome results, lot of players would not bother playing crusader more than a couple of hours.
03/03/2016 12:12 AMPosted by Iko
Without the promise of LoN Bomb awesome results, lot of players would not bother playing crusader more than a couple of hours.


They didn't,before LON. Crusaders are usually the lowest or second to lowest in rep on the solo leader boards.Reason being the sets aren't fun or rewarding and are relegated to extreme fishing with over optimized setups for content that a class with proper synergies can do at 3/4 the optimization. Also most inefficient bounty/key farming class in game until LON.
All blizz needs to do is start an official "help us make your class better" thread. We already have great and thoughtful reworks all over the place. But sadly, they don't get heard.

The most simple fix I can quickly see regarding build diversity is to make Invoker 6 set interact with 2 set. It solves the builds most glaring problem of zero aoe in high GRs and elite fishing.

So it would read as:
(6) Set:
The attack speed of Punish and Slash are increased by 50% and deal 600% of your Thorns damage.

Super simple to change, right????!? Remove 5 words to make the set amazing?
its not my favourite build out of all the crusader builds that ever existed but i also dont hate it. fact is it shouldnt be more powefull than actual class set builds. they dont even compare.
but i cant deny that it is indeed fun to play a strong crusader build again + the time effort it takes to build a really good lon crusader.
let me have a look at my barb. played in the first 2 weeks of the season. never touched again. full ancient gear on the same gear lvl as top ranked barbs. basically done
switched to crusader. still a decent amount of gearing progress left i could make. and thats part of the fun for me and the reason why im still playing this season. i want to work on my character over a long period of time. farming for items with the right primary and secondary rolls for weeks and month and then finally getting it...i believe i experienced that excitement the last time early ros when it took some time to complete a build. this process is way too accelerated anyways. just put in the least amount of effort to gear up a support character that has the same mainstat as your main hero and jump straight into the endgame.
You have choices you don't have to play LON you might not get as high as someone who does but it is your choice. Stop crying for a nerf just because you don't like the build that is stupid...

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