One more thing remains about bans...

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Highly Rated
Why not remove the partial records?

The whole run and record is false, as it benefited from bot or bots.

Would be only right to have only full party in recorded history.

Leaving 1 guy in 4man leaderboard just doesn't look good.

Just my 2'cents....

Other than that, good job Blizz.
Would be unfortunate for the survivors, but you make a solid point.
Highly Rated
I actually agree, if one person is banned in group leaderboard results the whole rift clear is irrelevant.
04/09/2016 07:26 PMPosted by Nikorr
Why not remove the partial records?

The whole run and record is false, as it benefited from bot or bots.

Would be only right to have only full party in recorded history.

Leaving 1 guy in 4man leaderboard just doesn't look good.

Just my 2'cents....

Other than that, good job Blizz.


04/09/2016 07:30 PMPosted by Drakonan
Would be unfortunate for the survivors, but you make a solid point.


04/09/2016 07:32 PMPosted by Juls
I actually agree, if one person is banned in group leaderboard results the whole rift clear is irrelevant.
Yup
There has been a lot of talk in the wider Community about this and almost everyone agrees that yes, the whole team should get DQed if one was botting. Some "legit" players count on friends and team mates who bot to carry them. However, the counter to it is that others who are a bit less competitive may not know the team mates are botting so what then?

I think I am on the removal side, but am open to thoughts otherwise.
Agreed with OP. Everything to disencourage botting is welcome.
04/09/2016 07:26 PMPosted by Nikorr
Would be only right to have only full party in recorded history.

Leaving 1 guy in 4man leaderboard just doesn't look good.


I agree with trying to find a way to prevent those that benefited from players that botted to get where they are, but you will still have singles on the 4 person leaderboard. There would need to be a way for people that climb with a group, but then are not around when 3 of the original players add a 4th and continue to a higher level.

As an example, early this season me and 3 friends cleared level 70 (I know that is nothing now but), we hit the leaderboard and decided to do the next key at level 73, I made a mistake and got myself caught between a rock and a hard place and died in the rift, they continued cleared and because I did not have a second character ready to do 70's they added a 4th and cleared a 75. Now I was on the leaderboard in 4 person spot solo at level 70 while my friends were on the leaderboard at 75 with a different 4th person.
If someone is caught botting, why not reset all of their gems to 25, and the caldesann's values to the minimum ?

This will completely screw up their crafted items using botted gems at 100 :)

May as well pour a ton of salt in their self-inflicted wounds.
@BentWilly

Would be wayyyy lesser punishment than perma-ban :P

Para points gone are the real punishment here for most ppl.
@MissCheetah

I could see that some may not know they played with a bot,

but I think most players that rank in top 1000 has to know that friend is botting.

There was just no consequence for botting. It is kind of new, specially multi wave bans :)

We'll see how it goes.
I'd agree that the overwhelming majority of survivors on fragmented teams either knew their teammates were cheating or were cheating themselves and just didn't get caught. And they higher up the list the more likely since it would take repeated rifts (or a very lucky one) to get there.

There is the possibility of something like a group of 3 friends who bot/play a lot decide to invite a random (legit) person for a night of 4 player clears and happen to make the leaderboards. That one random person would feel that he/she participated in a group accomplishment. And is now seeing the leaderboards with just their name there and know they were carried by cheaters even if they didn't know at the time.

I'd rather the fragmented teams be removed rather then left there - but I'd say a better (and of course more involved for Blizzard) option would simply be to have the option to sort those out for a "real" leaderboard. That way possibly legit players left there can still see their names and won't get butthurt on being removed, while full legit teams can know their true standing.
I see both sides of this argument as well.

I think there is actually another thing that would be nice, and that is if they removed all the people they banned from previous seasons leader boards.

Anything they do to discourage cheating is fine by me though.
04/09/2016 09:54 PMPosted by BentWilly
If someone is caught botting, why not reset all of their gems to 25, and the caldesann's values to the minimum ?

This will completely screw up their crafted items using botted gems at 100 :)

May as well pour a ton of salt in their self-inflicted wounds.


Because no amount of salt in the wound is ever better than chopping the head off.

Bans are the only way we see that cheating has a penalty.
It doesn't matter if you didn't know your team mate was cheating. It really doesn't. Cheating helped attain the achievement. Without the cheater's help, there would be no achievement. End of story.

Any team that earned achievements with a cheater should be stripped of their titles.
EU Leaderboard 4 Players:

Rank 1:
Team without damage dealer, supporters only.

Rank 2:
A solo monk (no his teammates on this run were not from the rank1 clear.)

Rank 3:
First full team with nobody banned

at this point, it is best to write off leaderboards and not take them serious.
04/09/2016 08:30 PMPosted by MissCheetah
There has been a lot of talk in the wider Community about this and almost everyone agrees that yes, the whole team should get DQed if one was botting. Some "legit" players count on friends and team mates who bot to carry them. However, the counter to it is that others who are a bit less competitive may not know the team mates are botting so what then?

I think I am on the removal side, but am open to thoughts otherwise.


I think being on the removal side is the right choice. When you start ranking pretty far up on the leaderboards, you know who you're working with at that point. Claiming that you didn't know they were cheating is most likely a lie.
04/10/2016 05:33 AMPosted by ImmortalKing
It doesn't matter if you didn't know your team mate was cheating. It really doesn't. Cheating helped attain the achievement. Without the cheater's help, there would be no achievement. End of story.

Any team that earned achievements with a cheater should be stripped of their titles.


I agree with you I think, but am going to play Devil's Advocate simply for the sake of a balanced discussion.

What about a situation where three players are legit but one has been secretly botting Paragon or Keys a few hours a day and lying about it? They don't know about it and think he/she is legit. Should those three get DQed when they did not cheat and had no intention of playing with a cheater? When three are legit and one is not they certainly were not being carried by the botter so gained no benefit from it. Should they be punished by losing rank?

Could that be used to sabotage others? Send in a botter who the other team thinks is legit so that you end up tops? Could or would Clans/streamer do something like that? Is my theoretical tinfoil hat too tight?

Just bringing it up for discussion so we look at all sides.

04/10/2016 06:20 AMPosted by kneo24
I think being on the removal side is the right choice. When you start ranking pretty far up on the leaderboards, you know who you're working with at that point. Claiming that you didn't know they were cheating is most likely a lie.


For the top of the boards? Yep I completely agree. Still, trying to be balanced here because not everyone is a top player. Many are thrilled to just be on there at all. My gut says banish them all from the boards but I want to be fair in my assessment.
While I don't really care about the leaderboards myself, I think it would only be fair to remove them entirely if they did so earlier in the season so that the legit players had a chance to form a new team and try again.

If they didn't know other members of their team were cheating until the very end of the season when you finally do your mass banwaves for publicity, you leave the legit players from those teams in a place where they now don't have time to try to find a new team to re-claim their spots.

Also, if you're going to use the argument that they should be removed because they indirectly benefited from cheating, you have to take that argument all the way. What about people who farmed paragon/gear in games with botters, but then did progression with "legit" players? Did they not benefit from cheating just as much? Should they not also then be removed from the leaderboard? What if you did public games and happened to be in a game with a botter? You benefited from playing with a botter, better remove you from the leaderboard. Maybe take away your stash tab, achievements and pets as well.
What about a situation where three players are legit but one has been secretly botting Paragon or Keys a few hours a day and lying about it? They don't know about it and think he/she is legit.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for not obeying the rules XD

I'm by no means a competitive player and don't feel strongly either way, but I agree with IK here. Even though players may have played legitimately, they would not of achieved their multiplayer time without the help of those that did, so the time is invalid and they should be removed. It is something they need to take up with their team mates.

Also, if you look at the 4 player leader board, the first full team that appears is like rank #33 (!!) why should they be denied their #1 spot?
@SoulSpectre

That's how I feel about it :)

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