One more thing remains about bans...

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Playing ''nice'' and ''fair'' would have to include not destroying your hands in the process so either you change the mechanics so you can actually play decently or allow the use of macros or incorporate an autocast option in the skill bar

Makes no sense your statements when major problems with ''cheating'' are created by yourself, ''endless para grind'', stupid skill spamming, horrendous repetitiveness with bounty system, all that fail designs that are counter natural would causes to either people quit or cheat.
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Overall, the Diablo community is filled with honest and dedicated players. For those that suddenly experienced their teammates disappearing, it's already a sobering situation to realize a friend or clan mate you trusted wasn't playing fair.

That said, this is the first time we’ve used this particular approach. We’re constantly monitoring the results of our account actions to ensure that the process remains effective as both punishment and a deterrent for behavior that is against our Terms of Use. We may change our methods in the future. The bottom line is that if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)


So you are giving the ok for people to group up with botters to get #1 on the leader boards. Long as that 1 player is legit he has nothing to worry about. The rest of his group gets banned, and yet he still remains #1 on the leaderboard.. Makes total sense.

Is it that hard to realize that this is totally not helping and doing nothing but encouraging people to group with botters? People that bot don't care if they get banned. Especially streamers. 1 donation on their stream pays for a new account / box. They just start botting again and get back to where they were in a week or two. (The only thing stopping them from coming back is their own interest in even playing.)
04/14/2016 11:30 AMPosted by msedek
Makes no sense your statements when major problems with ''cheating'' are created by yourself, ''endless para grind'', stupid skill spamming, horrendous repetitiveness with bounty system, all that fail designs that are counter natural would causes to either people quit or cheat.
Where do people get off thinking that without any of those things, Diablo 3 would be better than every other ARPG on the market? People play these games because they like to grind. So whether it's for items or paragon levels, bots provide a significant advantage. Content only becomes repetitive when you've spent hundreds of hours playing the same game, and as much as people say they don't like doing the same thing over and over again, these same people seem hellbent on getting to a higher Greater Rift level each time.

Unless Diablo 3 is a drug, and you can't help but stick that "needle" in your arm every time you need your fix, there's really no excuse for needing to cheat.
04/14/2016 11:24 AMPosted by Eric
I personally think there should be 1000 teams on the leaderboards. As long as one person is different, that is considered a new team and will get a new rank. Your top record will always be displayed, this way the top team holds number 1 not 1-4.


Thumbs up on this!!
04/14/2016 12:05 PMPosted by atom0s
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Overall, the Diablo community is filled with honest and dedicated players. For those that suddenly experienced their teammates disappearing, it's already a sobering situation to realize a friend or clan mate you trusted wasn't playing fair.

That said, this is the first time we’ve used this particular approach. We’re constantly monitoring the results of our account actions to ensure that the process remains effective as both punishment and a deterrent for behavior that is against our Terms of Use. We may change our methods in the future. The bottom line is that if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)


So you are giving the ok for people to group up with botters to get #1 on the leader boards. Long as that 1 player is legit he has nothing to worry about. The rest of his group gets banned, and yet he still remains #1 on the leaderboard.. Makes total sense.

Is it that hard to realize that this is totally not helping and doing nothing but encouraging people to group with botters? People that bot don't care if they get banned. Especially streamers. 1 donation on their stream pays for a new account / box. They just start botting again and get back to where they were in a week or two. (The only thing stopping them from coming back is their own interest in even playing.)


It really means that the entire group is still #1 botters included.
@Nevalistis

Well, I guarantee you that most people know they play with a bot user or THud user.

Prolly 7 out of 10 does. That goes for non-regular parties.

People on friend-list knows for sure who they play with.

Same people left on leader boards, if they would have a chance to get carried again, knowing they play with a cheat team members, would play with them again.

Why? Of course its quick XP and gem lvling.

Also, most players would not be far from rank they have ATM of bans.

So, rank 10 would have maybe legit rank 20.

But, also, because some players play with bot players most of the time, would be 100's of the ranks lower, or not in leader boards at all, since they would play with botting teams members only.

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS BS everywhere I look.

Leaving partial records in place BTW hurts even more legit players that didn't ranked in top 1000, due to botting team leftovers.

That's about it.

Well, I'm still glad it happened, since some good friends went to POE and elsewhere, being burned by long inactivity with botting action in D3.
Agreed on 1000 teams being listed, not 250 spots listed in 4man as top 1000 spots.
04/14/2016 11:30 AMPosted by msedek
Playing ''nice'' and ''fair'' would have to include not destroying your hands in the process so either you change the mechanics so you can actually play decently or allow the use of macros or incorporate an autocast option in the skill bar

Makes no sense your statements when major problems with ''cheating'' are created by yourself, ''endless para grind'', stupid skill spamming, horrendous repetitiveness with bounty system, all that fail designs that are counter natural would causes to either people quit or cheat.

What exactly do you expect from a Diablo game? While I would agree grinding for paragon levels is pretty silly, ARPGs as a whole have always been grindy games. The grind isn't the problem here, but the fact the thorough experimentation that has traditionally been ARPG's most critical cornerstone and most relevant source of longevity is deliberately discouraged just so the designers can control exactly how people play the game through a handful of ludicrously overpowered builds created by them.

Bounties are boring because they're framed within a difficulty that eventually becomes completely boring as a product of uncontrolled power creep. On their own, however, they're not all that different from the standard ARPG monster grinding treadmill, only more focused on specific objectives. Honestly, the only ones I find legitimately aggravating are those "kill all monsters in X level 2", only because you have to waste a lot of time looking for the damn stairs to the first and second levels of an instanced place. Once there, it's all fine.

Having both regular rifts and bounties represent a bit more of a challenge would definitely help with making them less mind-numbing, although honestly, I kinda find regular rifts to be kinda soothing in small doses. Perhaps increase the amount of keystones you get from them so you don't have to do 50+ to have a decent GR session. This becomes especially crucial after the implementation of Candlesann's Despair.

So yeah, if you're actually complaining about the grind, the problem might not be the game, but the fact you don't like to grind, in which case I would simply suggest you to find another game. I try to play competitively, and I have never felt the need to cheat, so I don't really understand why someone would even try to use this as an argument to justify cheaters' attitude. That has more to do with the player's ethics, rather than the game itself.

I do agree with you on the macro thing, though and the overall strain the game can cause on our hands. I really wish they de-emphasized a bit on rapid skill spamming. It's discouraged me from even trying certain playstyles, which is a bummer.
04/14/2016 11:30 AMPosted by msedek
Playing ''nice'' and ''fair'' would have to include not destroying your hands in the process so either you change the mechanics so you can actually play decently or allow the use of macros or incorporate an autocast option in the skill bar


temptation is always there, buddy.

there is always a lot of cash in the banks.
Does it mean that you have to rob them?

Don't blame the banks for the robbery.
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
The bottom line is that if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)


This exactly! Thank You Nevalistis for making the truth come to light. I only wish
people will play fair in the long run....but you know and I know they won't. :-(
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Overall, the Diablo community is filled with honest and dedicated players. For those that suddenly experienced their teammates disappearing, it's already a sobering situation to realize a friend or clan mate you trusted wasn't playing fair.


Can we be honest here? People at or near the top knows who bots and who doesn't. For them it's a completely different ball game. I imagine, at the very least, the top 200 know who is legit and who isn't. Beyond that, it probably becomes a little tricky from your standpoint.

04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
That said, this is the first time we’ve used this particular approach. We’re constantly monitoring the results of our account actions to ensure that the process remains effective as both punishment and a deterrent for behavior that is against our Terms of Use. We may change our methods in the future. The bottom line is that if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)


I think if we exercise good judgement, we can weed out who did know they were playing with cheaters and who didn't know. You're not going to rank near the top without a dedicated group to play with late in the season.
04/14/2016 11:30 AMPosted by msedek
Makes no sense your statements when major problems with ''cheating'' are created by yourself, ''endless para grind'', stupid skill spamming, horrendous repetitiveness with bounty system, all that fail designs that are counter natural would causes to either people quit or cheat.

People choose to quit. People choose to cheat. These designs do not cause people to quit or cheat.

I choose to play fairly due to ethics... not fear of punishment. Dealing with stagnant game design may be frustrating, but it doesn't cause me to cheat.

I choose to take a break from the game because I am tired of the grind, not because the design causes me to.
Blizzard didnt manage to get the servers working well :D
One CEO said, well, just ban half of the community ,problem solved :D
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Overall, the Diablo community is filled with honest and dedicated players. For those that suddenly experienced their teammates disappearing, it's already a sobering situation to realize a friend or clan mate you trusted wasn't playing fair.

That said, this is the first time we’ve used this particular approach. We’re constantly monitoring the results of our account actions to ensure that the process remains effective as both punishment and a deterrent for behavior that is against our Terms of Use. We may change our methods in the future. The bottom line is that if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)


From what I've read in other forums other than this one, most of the botters took the sanctions against them pretty well -- a whole lot I read about bought new accounts, which speaks a lot about how even the botters themselves viewed their behavior, and how effectively it was applied by Blizzard.

IMHO, the more controversial issues (i.e. removing the 4p leaderboard positions of legit players who played with botters) can wait until the community has a broad consensus -- despite the fact that I'm for removing the whole 4p record, I think those whose side I oppose raised valid points.

If Blizzard wants to apply sanctions only on those who violated the TOU and no sanctions whatsoever on those who didn't -- all I can say is that I really appreciate that leniency, and I hope that Blizzard continues to be lenient to legit players in the future.
04/14/2016 12:05 PMPosted by atom0s
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Overall, the Diablo community is filled with honest and dedicated players. For those that suddenly experienced their teammates disappearing, it's already a sobering situation to realize a friend or clan mate you trusted wasn't playing fair.

That said, this is the first time we’ve used this particular approach. We’re constantly monitoring the results of our account actions to ensure that the process remains effective as both punishment and a deterrent for behavior that is against our Terms of Use. We may change our methods in the future. The bottom line is that if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)


So you are giving the ok for people to group up with botters to get #1 on the leader boards. Long as that 1 player is legit he has nothing to worry about. The rest of his group gets banned, and yet he still remains #1 on the leaderboard.. Makes total sense.

Is it that hard to realize that this is totally not helping and doing nothing but encouraging people to group with botters? People that bot don't care if they get banned. Especially streamers. 1 donation on their stream pays for a new account / box. They just start botting again and get back to where they were in a week or two. (The only thing stopping them from coming back is their own interest in even playing.)


They'll get the ban hammer again numb nuts.

As you can see Blizz isn't done banning mofos, so botting will go down so long they continue doing it on a regular basis.
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Overall, the Diablo community is filled with honest and dedicated players.


lol
04/14/2016 11:08 AMPosted by Nevalistis
if you Play Nice, Play Fair, you won’t ever need to worry about the status of your account or your leader board records. :)

Let me see if I got this right.
You are saying, that if you play without cheating (botting, maphacking, automating gameplay and so on), but you're playing with others, that do, you get to reap the rewards... is that what you're saying?!
If you do, then I am very disappointed.

Now, let me tell you. I have no dog in this fight, since I haven't taken the leader boards seriously like ever (it's a quasi competition at best). I have been on them on S1, S2, NS during S3 and then I didn't even bother past the Seasonal Journey, because you guys didn't cap Paragon and didn't took action vs the cheaters for two years.

But not everyone is like me. There are those who care deeply. Do you really wanna alienate them from the game? Because that's what you're doing and you've been doing for a while now.
You let all manner of cheaters do whatever they wanted on twitch and youtube, probably with the hope, that it will promote the game. It achieved the exact opposite effect. Many people got alienated from the game.

Now you're finally getting back on track and taking action vs the cheaters, and that's great... but now you're saying, that you're gonna leave the partial records? Disappointing indeed.

Now let's talk with specific examples here!
I am going to illustrate how the EU 4 Player Leader board looks like, at least the first 14 spots. I am not gonna post any names (because naming/shaming bla bla), but everyone can log in on the EU and see for themselves (after all the game is global release). It looks like this:

Spot 1-3. Team with 3/4 players (the DPS wizard probably banned, or he has the amazing ability to transcend the ladder and go higher than rank1, maybe that's why he is not displayed with his team :P)

Spot #4. Team with 1/4 players (LOL! the 3 missing people are not higher on the leader board, unless they also transcended the ladder and joined the Hall of the Banned heroes)

Spots 5-12 are two teams, which seem to be legit at this point in time.

Spot 13-14. Team with 2/4 players. The interesting part about this one, is that one of the people, that participated in this clear is not banned, he's just higher on the board, he is on the spot 1-3. The other seems to be banned, and he also participated in the 1-3 clear (he is the one missing).

Basically 2 legitimate clears out of 5.

So let me see if I understand. In this specific example, the missing person from spot 1-3 and 13-14 was a DPS Wizard (without whom the record wouldn't be possible).
From spot #4 there are THREE PEOPLE MISSING (including the DPS).
Are you saying, that the players left in those teams should keep their records? Because this is absolutely laughable...

I would understand, if you would be willing to let people keep their records if say one of the participants, who played a support build cheated. But here, in these specific examples, that is not the case...

I would suggest you reevaluate your approach, at least for the top 100 on the group leader boards. If you don't, you'll continue on the road of slowly, but surely alienating more players from the game.

Best regards,
Noxifer, EU
They make money too hard to earn.
I therefore feel justified in stealing it.
That's there's some great ethical reasoning, Lou.
I have not been able to get on to my game now for over 2 weeks! Diablo is my stress relieve at a grueling work day....Please, please fix these connection issues...ASAP
I've been playing for over 10 years. I'd hate to have to give my game up...
04/14/2016 01:12 PMPosted by Luffy
04/14/2016 11:30 AMPosted by msedek
Playing ''nice'' and ''fair'' would have to include not destroying your hands in the process so either you change the mechanics so you can actually play decently or allow the use of macros or incorporate an autocast option in the skill bar


temptation is always there, buddy.

there is always a lot of cash in the banks.
Does it mean that you have to rob them?

Don't blame the banks for the robbery.


you are plain talking bulshyt here, im playing diablo since d1 then d2 several years then d3 since vanilla patch 1.05, and I didnt need to spam skill and destroy my hands to be able to play what I want, i have way over 7/8k hours at diablo and here I am, never banned or anything, meaning im a nice/fair player and so I have rights to complain

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