Let's rate DIII RoS

General Discussion
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04/16/2016 07:10 PMPosted by gauss
The biggest problem with D3 is that it was a shameless cash grab. Blizzard proper was never an ARPG developer. That was Blizzard North, a company they bought and renamed. After the success of D2, the developers (rightfully) wanted more creative freedom, money, and advancement opportunities. When Blizzard, acting like the greedy corporation they would later exemplify, said no, most of them left. A.k.a, the talent. However, they found themselves in a shaky position years later where the success of WC3, SC:BW, and D2:LOD were fading and they were resting entirely on WoW, at a time when the entire industry was trying to create the next "wow killer". That never worked out since most of those MMO's have become f2p or have a niche playerbase, but Blizzard decided to bust out the old franchises to diversify and make some cash.

WC4 is and will always be out of the question because WoW has basically succeeded it. However, there was real potential with the e-sports scene around BW in Korea and people were still playing D2 years later. They had no problem creating SC2 and making it a good game because Blizzard proper has pretty much always been an RTS company. That's the genre that made them. However, their shortsightedness over Blizzard North left them without the people to do the job right for D3, so they let Jay Wilson do it. The only problem is that he didn't understand, or like, D2 or the genre. He admitted as much himself in an interview. That should have been a giant red flag.

ARPG's go back to roguelikes and table-top RPG games like dungeons and dragons. When Diablo was being developed it was a turn-based tile game until they figured out they could do real-time action. That doesn't mean the genre can't evolve, but that is roots and the kind of thing people loved D2 for. Love it or hate it, but it was an adventure. In D2 (and other good arpg's) you play a character. You make choices, and you find things randomly, and that defines the character. They are imperfect and you are encouraged to try again with a new character (hence the roguelike roots). In D3 you play as a class. All characters of the same class are largely the same, and if Kripp hadn't browbeaten them in adding paragon levels there wouldn't even be that. It wasn't something they intended for the game.

D3 is too much like WoW and not enough like other games in the genre, and that's a bad thing. You play a class, and level it to end-game (instead of starting a new one or just farming some loot), and meticulously farm particular items. And you have a crafting system like an RNG version of crafting. They added an AH. They weren't even going to have seasons until they were browbeaten into that too. So what were they thinking? That we would have a main character? Yes. THAT'S NOT HOW THESE GAMES WORK. Imagine no seasons and no paragon levels just like at launch, because that lets you look at the design philosophy.

They wanted you to create a character, no need to ever create another one of that class ever again because there is no seasons and all level 60 characters of the same class are identical aside from gear. Then you go out and farm. Not for gear for yourself, but for gear to put on the AH and for money. Then you buy the items you need from the AH. I'm shocked they didn't' introduce a badge system straight out of WoW. Is it any surprise that the loot was so bland and boring? And quite frankly still is when compared to a game like TL2 where the gear is varied and fun? Is it any surprise that the skill system, while it does have some merits, is simplistic compared to something like PoE?

D3 did not advance the genre. It took a !@#$ on it, and has been slowly morphed into something acceptable over the years.

On a graded system it gets a C- from me. Pass/fail it gets a pass, but just BARELY, and that's only because there are redeeming things about the game that make it fun to play despite being the worst ARPG in terms of what the genre can be.


Very good summary of what happened with Diablo 3. It's clear that this company cares little about the genre and the series as a whole. Very sad.
04/17/2016 09:02 PMPosted by dukeof3arlvt
04/16/2016 07:10 PMPosted by gauss
The biggest problem with D3 is that it was a shameless cash grab. Blizzard proper was never an ARPG developer. That was Blizzard North, a company they bought and renamed. After the success of D2, the developers (rightfully) wanted more creative freedom, money, and advancement opportunities. When Blizzard, acting like the greedy corporation they would later exemplify, said no, most of them left. A.k.a, the talent. However, they found themselves in a shaky position years later where the success of WC3, SC:BW, and D2:LOD were fading and they were resting entirely on WoW, at a time when the entire industry was trying to create the next "wow killer". That never worked out since most of those MMO's have become f2p or have a niche playerbase, but Blizzard decided to bust out the old franchises to diversify and make some cash.

WC4 is and will always be out of the question because WoW has basically succeeded it. However, there was real potential with the e-sports scene around BW in Korea and people were still playing D2 years later. They had no problem creating SC2 and making it a good game because Blizzard proper has pretty much always been an RTS company. That's the genre that made them. However, their shortsightedness over Blizzard North left them without the people to do the job right for D3, so they let Jay Wilson do it. The only problem is that he didn't understand, or like, D2 or the genre. He admitted as much himself in an interview. That should have been a giant red flag.

ARPG's go back to roguelikes and table-top RPG games like dungeons and dragons. When Diablo was being developed it was a turn-based tile game until they figured out they could do real-time action. That doesn't mean the genre can't evolve, but that is roots and the kind of thing people loved D2 for. Love it or hate it, but it was an adventure. In D2 (and other good arpg's) you play a character. You make choices, and you find things randomly, and that defines the character. They are imperfect and you are encouraged to try again with a new character (hence the roguelike roots). In D3 you play as a class. All characters of the same class are largely the same, and if Kripp hadn't browbeaten them in adding paragon levels there wouldn't even be that. It wasn't something they intended for the game.

D3 is too much like WoW and not enough like other games in the genre, and that's a bad thing. You play a class, and level it to end-game (instead of starting a new one or just farming some loot), and meticulously farm particular items. And you have a crafting system like an RNG version of crafting. They added an AH. They weren't even going to have seasons until they were browbeaten into that too. So what were they thinking? That we would have a main character? Yes. THAT'S NOT HOW THESE GAMES WORK. Imagine no seasons and no paragon levels just like at launch, because that lets you look at the design philosophy.

They wanted you to create a character, no need to ever create another one of that class ever again because there is no seasons and all level 60 characters of the same class are identical aside from gear. Then you go out and farm. Not for gear for yourself, but for gear to put on the AH and for money. Then you buy the items you need from the AH. I'm shocked they didn't' introduce a badge system straight out of WoW. Is it any surprise that the loot was so bland and boring? And quite frankly still is when compared to a game like TL2 where the gear is varied and fun? Is it any surprise that the skill system, while it does have some merits, is simplistic compared to something like PoE?

D3 did not advance the genre. It took a !@#$ on it, and has been slowly morphed into something acceptable over the years.

On a graded system it gets a C- from me. Pass/fail it gets a pass, but just BARELY, and that's only because there are redeeming things about the game that make it fun to play despite being the worst ARPG in terms of what the genre can be.


Very good summary of what happened with Diablo 3. It's clear that this company cares little about the genre and the series as a whole. Very sad.


Except that his history on why the original team was let go is factually inaccurate. Blizzard South never canned them. They, the D2 tour de force, tendered their resumes to Vivendi as a gambit to win a personnel issue they had. Vivendi simply accepted their resignations rather than resolve the issue. So don't blame Blizzard South, blame Vivendi.

P.S. The Shaeffer brothers were also tired of managing people instead of making games, so they were kind of glad it happened. They freely admit they were terrible at managing people, which is precisely why one of the brothers is working on an indy game right now a team that consists of him and one other person.

Please, get your facts straight before you start ascribing villainous characteristics to a group of people you don't even know.
04/16/2016 07:10 PMPosted by gauss
The biggest problem with D3 is that it was a shameless cash grab. Blizzard proper was never an ARPG developer. That was Blizzard North, a company they bought and renamed. After the success of D2, the developers (rightfully) wanted more creative freedom, money, and advancement opportunities. When Blizzard, acting like the greedy corporation they would later exemplify, said no, most of them left. A.k.a, the talent. However, they found themselves in a shaky position years later where the success of WC3, SC:BW, and D2:LOD were fading and they were resting entirely on WoW, at a time when the entire industry was trying to create the next "wow killer". That never worked out since most of those MMO's have become f2p or have a niche playerbase, but Blizzard decided to bust out the old franchises to diversify and make some cash.

WC4 is and will always be out of the question because WoW has basically succeeded it. However, there was real potential with the e-sports scene around BW in Korea and people were still playing D2 years later. They had no problem creating SC2 and making it a good game because Blizzard proper has pretty much always been an RTS company. That's the genre that made them. However, their shortsightedness over Blizzard North left them without the people to do the job right for D3, so they let Jay Wilson do it. The only problem is that he didn't understand, or like, D2 or the genre. He admitted as much himself in an interview. That should have been a giant red flag.

ARPG's go back to roguelikes and table-top RPG games like dungeons and dragons. When Diablo was being developed it was a turn-based tile game until they figured out they could do real-time action. That doesn't mean the genre can't evolve, but that is roots and the kind of thing people loved D2 for. Love it or hate it, but it was an adventure. In D2 (and other good arpg's) you play a character. You make choices, and you find things randomly, and that defines the character. They are imperfect and you are encouraged to try again with a new character (hence the roguelike roots). In D3 you play as a class. All characters of the same class are largely the same, and if Kripp hadn't browbeaten them in adding paragon levels there wouldn't even be that. It wasn't something they intended for the game.

D3 is too much like WoW and not enough like other games in the genre, and that's a bad thing. You play a class, and level it to end-game (instead of starting a new one or just farming some loot), and meticulously farm particular items. And you have a crafting system like an RNG version of crafting. They added an AH. They weren't even going to have seasons until they were browbeaten into that too. So what were they thinking? That we would have a main character? Yes. THAT'S NOT HOW THESE GAMES WORK. Imagine no seasons and no paragon levels just like at launch, because that lets you look at the design philosophy.

They wanted you to create a character, no need to ever create another one of that class ever again because there is no seasons and all level 60 characters of the same class are identical aside from gear. Then you go out and farm. Not for gear for yourself, but for gear to put on the AH and for money. Then you buy the items you need from the AH. I'm shocked they didn't' introduce a badge system straight out of WoW. Is it any surprise that the loot was so bland and boring? And quite frankly still is when compared to a game like TL2 where the gear is varied and fun? Is it any surprise that the skill system, while it does have some merits, is simplistic compared to something like PoE?

D3 did not advance the genre. It took a !@#$ on it, and has been slowly morphed into something acceptable over the years.

On a graded system it gets a C- from me. Pass/fail it gets a pass, but just BARELY, and that's only because there are redeeming things about the game that make it fun to play despite being the worst ARPG in terms of what the genre can be.
Pros:

1. Good combat production values: killing monsters is fun
2. Good coding: very few bugs and glitches

Cons:

1. Terrible voice-acting.
2. Crap music.
3. Mediocre sound design: monsters only scream.
4. Crappy story.
5. Crappy characters.
6. They killed Cain!
7. !@#$ character progressions: no stat/skill points.
8. Lame game structure: mains and rifts.
9. Disney graphics.
10. Cheap engine with no dynamic lighting effects.
11. Childish monster design.
12. Uninspired class design.
13. Power creep.
14. All weapons are the same.
15. Not enough stash space.
16. No trading.
17. No good social features.

Final verdict:

2/10: 1 point for fun combat and 1 for good coding. Total disappointment for me.
04/16/2016 05:16 PMPosted by Audiophreak
If they do D IV, I hope they do it right. Like LOD. Literally. Chat lobbies, game list to join, boss/area runs, mfing, pvp outside of town.. d3 had such potential but it just lacks in certain (important) areas.


some of these things are possible. d3 still has that potential and can be a good game but it will take a shift of focus

chat lobbies, 6-8 player games, game list.


these social elements have contributed a lot to the sense of community and sociability that existed in d2, something that is very lacking in the matchmaking efficiency focused d3. in the past the social aspect of blizzard games has been one of the key factors that contributed to the success and longevity of their games. everything has become a quest for efficiency, but at the cost of this social element.

ex. just look at wow. automatic dungeon finder, garrisons, no main city in warlords. wow is (hopefully unintentionally) driving away their player base through their sacrifice of sociability for efficiency.

diablo 3 suffers from the same problem. we have all of these efficient systems, but at the end of the day we don't have anywhere to 'hang out'. no chat rooms, max 4 player games, matchmaking, all of these things are hurting the longevity of diablo 3 by discouraging community.

the first step needs to be to put in place systems that will facilitate and encourage community within diablo 3.
it took till basically patch 2.3 in reaper of souls for me to consider diablo 3 anything more than an average game

biggest problem is still stash space, I only keep one of each set but basically still have full character bags/banks, I would probably play this game again if they increased it drastically
Game has changed a lot.. lets score different versions :)

Release: 8/10
One of the fun was the difficulty of Inferno.. though - points comes from bad game menu and totally bad loot system. Gold AH was okey but the quality of loot dropping was awful.

1.03: 7/10
Heavy nerf to Inferno but other improvements.. Maybe the heavy nerf kinda spoiled the game abit

1.05: 6/10
IIRC it was 1.05(or mayb 1.04) when MonsterPower (1-10) was implemented imo this is when the game started to go to wrong direction. Static difficulty > scaling difficulty. Nowadays we are playing Monster Power 100+.. I don't see the point in this.

1.08 7/10:
Well we got used to that Monster Power and the game was pretty solid at this point. Still biggest issues was with the loot.. it was so hard to find anything useful for the character you were playing. Mostly you sold things in AH and got gold and bought what you needed from there. Heavy botting and gold inflation issues.

2.0 Vanilla 8/10:
The AH got scrapped and new loot and difficulty system was introduced. New legendaries and all kinds of cool stuff. Story mode got this reset progress feature and guaranteed legendary after completing which was kinda cool for a while.
Had one of the best times in the game during this period.

RoS release 9/10:
The good things in 2.0 continued to RoS release + Adventure Mode and new loot etc. The game was really solid.

RoS S1 8/10:
Well seasons started and even when I was kinda happy as a old D2 ladder player.. somehow I didn't have much fun playing it. GR didn't feel very cool addition to the game. Basically same as Rift but with a timer and no loot (except at the end).

S2 8/10:
pretty much the same as S1 .. some added balance to classes perhaps.

S3 8/10:
I had some fun with the WW barb .. first time since 1.08 Vanilla. So new sets added iirc. Otherwise quite the same as before.

S4 7/10:
For some reason this grinding of GR is really a boring for me. The powercreep is getting out of hand also. Gold is much more easier to get and you don't really need to worry at all about spending your money.

S5 6/10:
Set dungeons.. not impressed. Power creep even more. Free set after ~5 hours of gameplay rendering T1-T6 useless jumping directly to T7 and few hours there T10.

Idk .. if this goes on in S12 we are reaching negative ratings :)
to those who rate the game so bad (which is in their right), i wonder:

if you dont like the game, why are you still playing it?
04/18/2016 02:25 AMPosted by WildPants
to those who rate the game so bad (which is in their right), i wonder:

if you dont like the game, why are you still playing it?
If you hate post's like this "SO" much why do you look at them....................................................................Oh I get it you and the other fanboy's are so OCD you can't stand that someone might post something negative about something you like.........................................Yup that's it
if you dont want to answer my question, dont reply to it, troll
Dragon Soul on google play is a better arpg lol
04/18/2016 02:25 AMPosted by WildPants
to those who rate the game so bad (which is in their right), i wonder:

if you dont like the game, why are you still playing it?


04/18/2016 03:03 AMPosted by WildPants
if you dont want to answer my question, dont reply to it, troll
The answer is the same one we've always given we paid for it
04/18/2016 03:14 AMPosted by shadowcat
04/18/2016 02:25 AMPosted by WildPants
to those who rate the game so bad (which is in their right), i wonder:

if you dont like the game, why are you still playing it?


04/18/2016 03:03 AMPosted by WildPants
if you dont want to answer my question, dont reply to it, troll
The answer is the same one we've always given we paid for it
so?
do you play every game you ever bought still till today?
if so, please provide proof

cause if not, youre just some entitled snob

@topic: 7/10
Can tell you, why I am still playing after thousands of hours since day1, because it is diablo.
After spending so much time in D1, D1HF, D2, D2LoD, D3vanilla until now, you can see what is really good and what is not. So when player tell the forum, they are not 100% glad with the actual status of the game, it does not mean, they are so p..ed by the game, never to play again. No.
If you like something, then you feel a little to be part of it. If you have to see, that the way it is going on, is not what, not just you or me, players want to have, it is good and correct to tell the things, what are going wrong. If this would not be possible, so why we should have forum at all? Just for trollings? For poor kiddies not knowing what to do whole day without a job, to have a place to make theirselves big (as a troll)? Forum is not just for always telling juhu, oh so great, all is so fine. No there is also room for critics and other thoughts.
If you cannot understand this, nor in german or english, you are the one, who should not reply to any thread, what has been written.
Or do it in a way, what is useful.

I am rating D3 Ros a 5of10, because there is potential and there is a good game, but there are also mistakes and cruel dev decission, so it can be better. But this will not be, if we all just whooo ooh, everything is so fine, I am so glad.
Sorry but I do not think, you will really understand this. So go on disliking everybody with your two or three accounts acting as we know you - as a .....ll
04/18/2016 03:03 AMPosted by WildPants
if you dont want to answer my question, dont reply to it, troll
Oh and again I notice you once again called someone else what you hate to be called so I guess hypocrisy isn't something you mind indulging in
04/16/2016 12:26 PMPosted by HolyDiver
For me, D3 is unscoreable, just like WoW is for WoW players.

It has some of the most amazing things modern gaming can bring, with some of the very worst, mixed together.

In between you have an amazing company, that will not listen to its devoted fans.
This is how two-sided the situation is today, and it frustrates me beyond belief.


soooooo much of this.
04/18/2016 03:17 AMPosted by hucka
04/18/2016 03:14 AMPosted by shadowcat
...

... The answer is the same one we've always given we paid for it
so?
do you play every game you ever bought still till today?
if so, please provide proof

cause if not, youre just some entitled snob

@topic: 7/10
Got a copy of D2? Still playing that and multiple copy's so just get on there and let's see if your backup is as good as your mouth
04/18/2016 03:28 AMPosted by shadowcat
<span class="truncated">...</span>so?
do you play every game you ever bought still till today?
if so, please provide proof

cause if not, youre just some entitled snob

@topic: 7/10
Got a copy of D2? Still playing that and multiple copy's so just get on there and let's see if your backup is as good as your mouth
so you only bought two games in your whole life?

thats sad to hear

that must be the reason you hate and troll so much on the forums here
I have bad luck and I wanna play other games and don't grind all day but overall it was fun.
7/10 for me
I used to compare it to D2, but I now appreciate D3 for what it is. It is a game that suits my lifestyle as someone who is working. It is very casual and fast and doesn't require too much time to find the items the I need for my character to progress. D2 is different. I played it for 5 years and never saw some of the most powerful items ever dropped, e.g., runes like zod, ber, etc... I give d3 a perfect score = 10/10

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