Sentries and Dead Man's Legacy

Demon Hunter
If using Marauders, when sentries fire multishot does the Dead Man's Legacy bonus apply to them?
Nope. It only applies to you.

Edit: Was wrong. It does now. (In case anyone else reads thread.)
Ah, ok, thanks.
05/17/2016 07:53 AMPosted by CobraCommand
Nope. It only applies to you.

Actually, DML bonus does work with sentries. There is even a note in some Patchnotes (2.3) that a bug was fixed, where it didn't worked with sentries.
Fixed an issue that prevented Dead Man's Legacy from affecting Multishot when cast by Marauder's Sentries
:O good catch. Apologies for the misinformation OP. Haven't used M6 multishot in a long time, just remember people saying it didn't work.

That said I wouldn't use DML for M6. You'd lose either rucksack or dawn.
Now, if they could just fix the same bug with Panacea, it might *almost* make EA worth using again.

05/17/2016 09:26 AMPosted by CobraCommand
That said I wouldn't use DML for M6. You'd lose either rucksack or dawn.


Then you need to rethink the value of the various pieces. Rucksack is a ~65% damage boost but compounds all the problems with playing Marauders. DML is all multishot (almost the entirety of your damage if you're using Yang's) and is up to a 4x damage multiplier on targets under 60% health (averaging out to a 3.2x multiplier). That leaves us with Dawn. Vengeance offers a 40% damage boost innately, and a 10-15% boost from secondary damage sources and hatred generation. However, you lose Vengeance as a cooldown.

Now, of the three possible items, DML is *way* ahead of the other options but only when equipped. MS is easily more than 80% of your total damage with Yang's. 80% of a 3.2x multiplier is still far larger than 60-70%. So the real question is do you want to fight with ramping up 5 Sentries and 3 charges constantly to maintain your damage, or do you just want to press Vengeance and only have to deal with 3 sentries and 3 charges. Personally, once I started using Dawn instead of Rucksack, I never looked back. It is mechanically superior to constantly fighting with sentry charges, in a constant state of ramp up right to the end.
Do sentries benefit from you legendary gems? How do they work with Zeis? Is it based off your position or the sentry's position?
05/18/2016 01:10 PMPosted by Noblesse
Do sentries benefit from you legendary gems?


Yes.

05/18/2016 01:10 PMPosted by Noblesse
How do they work with Zeis? Is it based off your position or the sentry's position?


Sentry position. As you are clearing a rift, this isn't always something you can control. What I try to do is put sentries in doorways or chokepoints so they can fire both backward and forward and generally be at range for most targets. For the RG you'll want to keep all of the sentries at range. Or, if you are relying on Polar Station to proc Trapped and Cull the Weak, you may want to put one sentry on the RG and the rest at range.
Hmm. I did not know that sentries were impacted by gems, and that having them at range will boost their damage with Zei's.

I feel a little stupid now. :)
Thanks for the clarification! This opens up some definite possibilities ^_^
05/18/2016 02:08 PMPosted by SincroFashad
I feel a little stupid now. :)


I basically played a gimped version of my marauder DH this entire time by always placing all the sentries right next to the boss.
Just a question but couldn't you equip the Dawn instead of Yangs so that you can cube Rucksack and have DML equipped?

Or is the 50% faster attack speed and resource reduction better?

I wouldn't even know where to begin with the math but it seems to me they'd about even out.

I could be very wrong though.
05/19/2016 03:06 AMPosted by Idolis
Just a question but couldn't you equip the Dawn instead of Yangs so that you can cube Rucksack and have DML equipped?

Or is the 50% faster attack speed and resource reduction better?

I wouldn't even know where to begin with the math but it seems to me they'd about even out.

I could be very wrong though.


Offensively, Yang's is certainly the weakest of the bunch. It's only worth a ~50% damage increase. But it also adds a lot of utility via the ~50% cost reduction (1/2 price vault being the most significant). However, the real issue is finding a perfectly rolled Dawn, which is what it would take to beat out Yangs. That...would be a nightmare.
05/17/2016 11:56 AMPosted by LostSoul

05/17/2016 09:26 AMPosted by CobraCommand
That said I wouldn't use DML for M6. You'd lose either rucksack or dawn.


Then you need to rethink the value of the various pieces. Rucksack is a ~65% damage boost but compounds all the problems with playing Marauders. DML is all multishot (almost the entirety of your damage if you're using Yang's) and is up to a 4x damage multiplier on targets under 60% health (averaging out to a 3.2x multiplier).


Where are you getting this math from? DML hits enemies twice when below (50-60), so 100% increase 55% (avg) of the time for a 55% increase. Assuming perfect roll it also gives 100% dmg to multishot. How are 55% x 100% = 3.2x multiplier? Then not all the sentry or your own damage is multishot, but lets say conservatively 90%?

And then comparing it to Rucksack, your damage is increased by 66% from 2 more sentries, sentry damage is increased 66%(2 additional) x 100% (Rucksack bonus)

So I guess its:
DML 55x90% DH + 55x90% sentries
vs
Rucksack 66% DH + 66x100% sentries

I guess the real question is how much of your total damage is from the DH compared to the sentries? DML is definitely way stronger for the DH, but rucksack is clearly better for the sentries

*edit* tbh I find the multishot sentries too weak anyhow, preferring CA or chakrams so its kinda a moot argument imho.
05/19/2016 03:31 PMPosted by zaknafien
How are 55% x 100% = 3.2x multiplier?


+100% = x2
+55% = x1.55

2x1.55 = 3.1x multiplier. Not quite 3.2, so I guess you are technically correct.

Although in truth a 60% affix is like a 42% relative damage increase, at least without Ambush. It's about 48% with Ambush.

See math below:

Assume enemies have 100 health and regular shots do 1 damage (see http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/20420604222#14 for a longer explanation of Ambush/DML math)

-----

Without Ambush or DML:
100/1 = 100 hits to kill.

Without Ambush, with 60% DML:
(100-60)/1 + (60-0)/2 = 70 shots to kill.

100/70 = 42.8% relative damage increase from DML without Ambush.

-----

With Ambush, it's a little different.

With Ambush, without DML:
(100-75)/1.4 + (75-0)/1 = 92.85 shots to kill.

With Ambush, with 60% DML:
(100-75)/1.4 + (75-60)/1 + (60-0)/2 = 62.85

92.85 / 62.85 = 47.7% relative damage increase from DML with Ambush.

-----

So a 60% DML is about a 42.8% relative damage increase without Ambush, and a 47.7% relative damage increase with Ambush. That's assuming no overshooting, but it should give an approximate idea for most cases.
[quote][/quote]

05/17/2016 11:56 AMPosted by LostSoul
Now, if they could just fix the same bug with Panacea, it might *almost* make EA worth using again.

05/17/2016 09:26 AMPosted by CobraCommand
That said I wouldn't use DML for M6. You'd lose either rucksack or dawn.


Then you need to rethink the value of the various pieces. Rucksack is a ~65% damage boost but compounds all the problems with playing Marauders. DML is all multishot (almost the entirety of your damage if you're using Yang's) and is up to a 4x damage multiplier on targets under 60% health (averaging out to a 3.2x multiplier). That leaves us with Dawn. Vengeance offers a 40% damage boost innately, and a 10-15% boost from secondary damage sources and hatred generation. However, you lose Vengeance as a cooldown.

Now, of the three possible items, DML is *way* ahead of the other options but only when equipped. MS is easily more than 80% of your total damage with Yang's. 80% of a 3.2x multiplier is still far larger than 60-70%. So the real question is do you want to fight with ramping up 5 Sentries and 3 charges constantly to maintain your damage, or do you just want to press Vengeance and only have to deal with 3 sentries and 3 charges. Personally, once I started using Dawn instead of Rucksack, I never looked back. It is mechanically superior to constantly fighting with sentry charges, in a constant state of ramp up right to the end.


Thanks for your nice & detail analysis.
Totally agree.

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