What is a "build" ?

General Discussion
so... here it goes.
At which point do we actually consider a playstyle a "build" ?

- At simply picking 6 random skills and execute them at the same time?
- At picking 6 skills related to each other, resulting in a bit more dps in the end?
- At using complete class sets + regular legendarys that buff skills, and using those skills?
- When using whatever it takes in terms of items + skills to not die playing in T10?
- When we are able to kill mobs in T10 within 10 minutes?
- When we can 1shot mobs in T10?
- When we can do Greater Rifts level 60? or 100?

This goes towards the whole argument of, do we really have thousands of build in D3, do we have only 10, or do we just have 1 or 2? (per class of course)

Argue away! or be toxic, whatever makes you happy ^^

I think I would personally consider a build being able to 1shot mobs in T10.
05/24/2016 08:24 AMPosted by Krotarus
do we really have thousands of build in D3


Yes, a ton of useless ones and a handful of viable.
Its a hard thing to very cleary define. and as strange as it seems that lack of clear definition really strengthens what the word means when it is used.

its not unlike the question "what is rock music?" well as the word is used, it is simply understood by the participants of the conversation who simply understand what the word means. attempting to squeeze bands into one set of rules or the other really kind of falls flat on its face as the sad debates rage on about what band is "death metal", and which band is "technical grindcore"

the more loose the term is the more favourable the conversation, i find, because it draws the people having the conversation towards a common understanding within their minds, if their minds are set a certain way to want a certain outcome.

if that makes sense...which I hope it does :P
05/24/2016 08:36 AMPosted by Kargon
05/24/2016 08:24 AMPosted by Krotarus
do we really have thousands of build in D3


Yes, a ton of useless ones and a handful of viable.
Depends what you consider viable...
05/24/2016 08:39 AMPosted by Shanso
Depends what you consider viable...


True enough, it all boils down to each individuals definition of the words, I would say viable as in effortlessly do torment 10.
A build is something you copy from a youtuber who happens to play much better than you.
05/24/2016 08:24 AMPosted by Krotarus
so... here it goes.
At which point do we actually consider a playstyle a "build" ?

- At simply picking 6 random skills and execute them at the same time?
- At picking 6 skills related to each other, resulting in a bit more dps in the end?
- At using complete class sets + regular legendarys that buff skills, and using those skills?
- When using whatever it takes in terms of items + skills to not die playing in T10?
- When we are able to kill mobs in T10 within 10 minutes?
- When we can 1shot mobs in T10?
- When we can do Greater Rifts level 60? or 100?

This goes towards the whole argument of, do we really have thousands of build in D3, do we have only 10, or do we just have 1 or 2? (per class of course)

Argue away! or be toxic, whatever makes you happy ^^

I think I would personally consider a build being able to 1shot mobs in T10.


I Agree with you the definition of a valid build is a build that can readily and easily clear T10 content. I think with Legacy of Nightmare and the Despair Crafting recipe you can meet that definition. However I would consider this quite an investment of time to get to that point.
There are ~ 100 billion possible skill & rune combinations per class:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104608-BlizzCon-2010-Billions-of-Class-Builds-Await-in-Diablo-III

Sure, you could play with six different support skills or all four primary skills or other non-sense combinations, but I wouldn't call that a build.

I would say the basic framework for a well rounded build looks something like this:

    One Primary Skill
    - like Bash or Frenzy, Weapon Throw


    At least one Secondary Skill
    - like Whirlwind, Seismic Slam or HotA


    Maybe a 2nd Secondary Skill for additional DpS (or to deal with ranged mobs), but not necesarrily
    - like Rend, Revenge, Overpower or even Seismic Slam


    Mix of several Support Skills
    - like Leap, Ignore Pain, Battle Rage, War Cry, Ground Stomp


    One Skill to deal with big enemies
    - like Wrath of the Berserker, Call of the Ancients, Earthquake


If only around 10% of all possible skill/rune combinations would somehow look like that, then there still would be around 10 billion builds per class.

In a perfect world you would come up with your own build, by using the skills you personally prefer the most and put them into the framework that I mentioned above – and all of them would somehow be similar in power, so that there is no build that is significantly more powerful than all others...

...but thanks to the current philosophy of having super OP set - which massively narrowed down build diversity - everyone gets funneled into similar, or even default builds - so I would say that the current number of viable builds is ~10 or just even ~2 per class.
A "build" is a focus around something. It has to have some sort of definition and form. You can either "build" around a certain skill, a certain item/effect or a certain goal (like fast T10 clears or high GR).

6+3 random skills is not a "build", but a mash. "Build" is something that is enhanced by what you add. Whatever you try to "build" whether it being a house or a computer or a character in a game, it has to have a purpose and follow a set form basics; like a house has to have a roof and a door, a computer has to have a motherboard, cpu and ram, and game character has to have some synergetic skills and items.
05/24/2016 08:24 AMPosted by Krotarus
Argue away! or be toxic, whatever makes you happy ^^

I wonder what part of posting my opinion on semantics into the void makes me happy. In fact... now I feel despair... as I am compelled...

05/24/2016 08:24 AMPosted by Krotarus
I think I would personally consider a build being able to 1shot mobs in T10.

In my opinion, whatever combination of skills and items a player is using is their build. So if I make a CotA Barb and I decide I like using Bash to add 10% CHC, then that's my build. If my friend likes my style and copies everything I'm doing except he prefers using Frenzy instead of Bash, then he technically has a different build. So I would say that technically their ludicrous claim of innumerable builds is technically correct.

Functionally I think there are far fewer builds. You could say we're both playing "the CotA" build but just with minor personal preferences. One Witch Doctor might prefer Leaping Spiders while another prefers Widowmakers, but they're both playing a Corpse Spider build.

I think for a build to be "real" or "a good build" it has to at least incorporate one of the end game sets to take advantage of that huge +% damage they all have, or the build has to serve some specific function such as debuffing or healing. Of course you also have "fun builds" like if you were seeing how far Asheara's Vestments could push into grifts.
05/24/2016 06:12 PMPosted by Razorphilia
In my opinion, whatever combination of skills and items a player is using is their build. So if I make a CotA Barb and I decide I like using Bash to add 10% CHC, then that's my build. If my friend likes my style and copies everything I'm doing except he prefers using Frenzy instead of Bash, then he technically has a different build. So I would say that technically their ludicrous claim of innumerable builds is technically correct.


It absolutely is correct in the technical sense.......but as the idea is examined by human mind, it begins to very quickly fall apart. the more a person cares about the definition and the invested nature various layers of character growth and how they interact, the less impressed they are about D3.

This is why the devs do not get any credit for the "hard work" they have done adding the cube and legendary gems and re-working the legendary items and all of that to make things bigger and better.

all that stuff and WAY more...should have already have been done and in the game when it launched, Because fans of the game and the genre typically appreciate more than just clicking a few skills in town. It should have been blatantly obvious to the devs. and because the decision makers either did not know or did not care, well....

that's why in D3, characters feel like carbon copies of each-other, why we are all wearing the same sets, using largely the same skills and throwing away the same items by the dozens and hundreds...

Because providing enough things to click to measure out to billions of combinations does not make a good character development system to a person who cares about such things.
Build is something you create with what you have on hand. On the other hand, a spec is crafted. You need specific items and skills for a spec.

You have a build at the point where you have to decide between 2 items. This happens in the game really early. If you are lucky you get something like a serpent sparker. All of a sudden, you will build around that item. You might pick the fire hydra because it does the most damage. But then you get a pair of bracers with lightning or cold bonus so you change your build.

For a spec, you build to an idea. For key farming you don't need as much damage as you would to kill tier 70 RGs so a spec for key farming would drop some damage for mobility and speed. The same goes for a support spec. You equip skills and items to help the group dynamic.

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