Diablo 4 - What do we expect?

General Discussion
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06/05/2016 01:46 PMPosted by DaFemaleBoss
I think what you are talking about really is the art direction, not necessarily revisiting old locations. For example, you still got Cathedral in D3 as in D1 and D2, but unlike D1 and D2's Cathedral which can be described as 'brooding', D3's can be described as 'cartoony'.


We want more D1 and D2 style mood and "feel", but also revisiting old ruins of previously visited areas would definitely be awesome and give a feel of "I am back in sanctuary". In D3 I never had this feeling ever...

D3 is much more WOW than Diablo (IMHO), when it comes to art direction. There is nothing wrong with having such an art direction in games like wow or other new franchises. Just not Diablo, as it missed the mark big time.

The small chapel in D3 is probably the most ridiculous piece of game-object i ever experienced in a game. I mean.. when i first played until the chapel in D3 beta, i thought "WTF?". The actual Cathedral was much bigger than the chapel displayed in D3. seriously wtf lol.

I expected something like this size-wise (From "Cathedral"):

http://www.diabloii.net/gallery/showfull.php?photo=3541

(This is the cathedral in D2 which is located in the Monastery, after you travel through the Monastery gate -> Jail levels -> Inner Cloister)
I think Diablo 4 should be a prequel to the series.

It might start off in Tristram again where you meet Cain's father, Jerad (or was it Jeram) who's recruiting Horadrim to hunt down the Prime Evils. Throughout the game you'd do battle with the Triune, help establish Churches of the Light. There'd be plenty of lore to delve into like the different religions of Sanctuary (Akarat worship, the Triune, Anu, stuff like that.

The game would all about imprisoning the three with the soulstones but you'd have to retrieve them from Tyreal. Along the way, the heroes might have side quests, like a warrior might have to retrieve the materials Arkaine would use to make Arkaine's Valor. A magic user might have to help Horazon create Arcane Sanctuary and trap demons there.

You'd do battle with evil Vizerai sorcerers, Triune Cultists, demons and other stuff. Perhaps you'd meet the Umbarru Tribe before they were turned into Kazra but just. You won't be able to stop the transformation but you'd punish those responsible. I think it would help with that dark feeling if the hero can't fix everything.

You might visit Kurast during the building of the Temple City. Might meet Kalim there where a priest characters side quest might be to help create Kalim's Will and the Orb I can't remember the name of.

During the game you'd do battle with the Prime Evils but some lesser evils too.

Toward the end of the game you return to Tristram where Jerad tells you of King Leoric's imminent arrival and that of Archbishop Lazarus, who you might have had to save somewhere during the game. Might also help with that dark feeling if the players had some responsibility for what would happen to Tristram. That might mess up the timeline established in the other games but I don't know if that all that bad if the game is good enough.

Anyway, these are just some ideas I had for the game to delve more deeply into the established lore.
05/26/2016 02:51 PMPosted by Alukat


05/26/2016 02:13 PMPosted by KiWeN
And back in 1.00 those additional attributes you could roll on your gear only increased your defensive stats, and were mere bonuses because dexterity had a dodge chance, intelligence all resist and strength armor. There was no Greater Rift system with a race to reach the highest damage stat, and the dual attribute affixes was a bit lower than the others - but in the end, you wanted you main stat to be high, then a bit of the others.

In my opinion every attribute stat should hold value, but be true to the lore and logic of the game and universe.


agreed. Maybe they should have added something like stat weighting to the skills, example:

Monk - hundred fists > 60% str, 40% dex modifier
Monk - wave of light > 100% int
Monk - fists of thunder > 80% dex, 20% int

I think that would have been better for the primary stat system and for the items with combo rolls (like dex+int).
Stats have only gotten worse as D3 progressed. Ive suggested in the past something similar to the stats / skills interaction. Certain aspects of skills could be benefited from different attributes, Intel reducing the resource cost, strength increasing AoE etc. The different effects that have green numbers in the tooltips would be red yellow or green according to the attribute associated with it.

But no matter what, each primary attribute should offer defensive and offensive ability to each class. They should be fundamentally different, ie bring back dodge and make is worthwhile, separate armor and resistances
06/05/2016 11:30 AMPosted by Orrion
06/05/2016 12:30 AMPosted by GodHand


Very important: RESPECT DIABLO LORE! Diablo 3 is riddled with inconsistencies and items do not correlate with their amazing predecessors (I still can't believe how you degraded The Godfather, Windforce, Tal Rasha's, Wizardspike, etc). Progress the storyline by extending on the current, and amazing, Diablo lore. Yes you stayed with lore in the fact we have lesser evils and Diablo was in the game. Other than that, what? A few items' flavor texts referring to icons of the past Diablo games and a few bounties surrounding a couple lore-related characters and enemies. Sorry, not good enough.


As if the original game had any of that lore you're talking about. The weapons back then didn't even have flavor text, and there were no sets of items.

And shouldn't you be bashing the living hell out of D2 for abandoning so many of the original unique weapons and armor pieces? Where's the Dreamflange mace? Gone. Where's the Demonspike Coat? Gone. Hellslayer? Gone. Lightsabre? Hammer of Jholm? Storm Spire? Naj's Puzzler? Naj's Light Plate? Split Skull Shield? Ring of Regha? Arkaine's Valor? I don't remember any of those in D2, and I'm pretty much picking them at random from the list in the D1 strategy guide. Only a handful carried over to D2.

By the way, it's "The Grandfather," not "The Godfather." If you're going to bash them for not keeping with the lore, maybe you could at least get the name right yourself, huh?

Don't get me wrong here, there's places where the story and lore were messed up in D3 (still don't know why we killed Kulle again), but geez, could your glasses possibly be more rose-colored?


Grandfather/Godfather = It was 5am and I was exhausted. Sue me. Everyone knew I was referring to the damn Grandfather. People who start nitpicking such trival things such at that are just posting for the sake of posted (nice post count).

The weapons back then did not need flavor text and actually D2's weapons did not need flavor text because we created our own through RUNEWORDS. Certainly not as elaborate as it is now, but another example of player creation. The players created the lore through the storyline given to us and by developers who gave us the flexibility we needed throughout the entire game.

D3 is not a bad game at all and RoS is even better since it went more back to the roots of the previous games. RoS is much darker than Vanilla D3 and more malevolent. Act 1 of D3 is the best act for me because it revisits a bunch of Diablo's history with Adria, Old Tristram, The Cathedral, The Crypts (my interpretation of the Labyrinths), Leoric and the Skeleton King, The Butcher, etc. But as you move past Act 1, the game started to focus more on boss dialog and less on the sadness of Act 1.

There is not a SINGLE person who loves Diablo and Diablo 2 who were not sad to see and remember what had come of Griswold and Old Tristram. That said, lore is important to maintain, but you do not develop an entire game around it - you expand on it but in a way that follows the predecessors. You do not do that through eccentric bosses or anything else I mentioned.

On that note, I'm gonna' toss on my rose-colored glassed, grab my Godfather and Tal Rashaad's gloves and head to Westmatch and kill of Markael and Addia.
You might love to see this game were it would take 100 hours between beams of light. But I don't want them to go back to those drop rates.


Many would like it so that the truck load of items between those beams of light were interesting for a multitude of interrelated reasons.....

But oh yucky... that's "D2 stuff...."

Thank goodness Blizzard got rid of such an antiquated system so that more people would by their game hey?
06/05/2016 05:30 PMPosted by TOPCommander
06/05/2016 01:46 PMPosted by DaFemaleBoss
I think what you are talking about really is the art direction, not necessarily revisiting old locations. For example, you still got Cathedral in D3 as in D1 and D2, but unlike D1 and D2's Cathedral which can be described as 'brooding', D3's can be described as 'cartoony'.


We want more D1 and D2 style mood and "feel", but also revisiting old ruins of previously visited areas would definitely be awesome and give a feel of "I am back in sanctuary". In D3 I never had this feeling ever...


..... Half the places visited were already in ruins. Do you really need to go back and see the ruins again?

And again, how do you establish these places if you never go anywhere new? And what exactly is the "world of Sanctuary" if you only ever visit a few places?

D3 is much more WOW than Diablo (IMHO), when it comes to art direction. There is nothing wrong with having such an art direction in games like wow or other new franchises. Just not Diablo, as it missed the mark big time.


The art is fine. At most, the dark atmosphere in D1 is scary for the first playthrough when you don't know what's coming at you, but that's about it. We don't always have to be underground and the sky doesn't always have to be gloomy and overcast.

I wouldn't mind a little darker overall, but D3's graphics have a vibrant feel, and I don't really want to lose that.

06/05/2016 06:28 PMPosted by GodHand
<span class="truncated">...</span>

As if the original game had any of that lore you're talking about. The weapons back then didn't even have flavor text, and there were no sets of items.

And shouldn't you be bashing the living hell out of D2 for abandoning so many of the original unique weapons and armor pieces? Where's the Dreamflange mace? Gone. Where's the Demonspike Coat? Gone. Hellslayer? Gone. Lightsabre? Hammer of Jholm? Storm Spire? Naj's Puzzler? Naj's Light Plate? Split Skull Shield? Ring of Regha? Arkaine's Valor? I don't remember any of those in D2, and I'm pretty much picking them at random from the list in the D1 strategy guide. Only a handful carried over to D2.

By the way, it's "The Grandfather," not "The Godfather." If you're going to bash them for not keeping with the lore, maybe you could at least get the name right yourself, huh?

Don't get me wrong here, there's places where the story and lore were messed up in D3 (still don't know why we killed Kulle again), but geez, could your glasses possibly be more rose-colored?


Grandfather/Godfather = It was 5am and I was exhausted. Sue me. Everyone knew I was referring to the damn Grandfather. People who start nitpicking such trival things such at that are just posting for the sake of posted (nice post count).


It's not exactly a nitpick given your argument, and since my post included much more than that anyway you really can't say I was posting for the sake of a post count.

Again, shouldn't you be speaking against D2 for abandoning so much stuff? Why does D2 get a pass, but D3 doesn't?

The weapons back then did not need flavor text


So why do they now?

and actually D2's weapons did not need flavor text because we created our own through RUNEWORDS. Certainly not as elaborate as it is now, but another example of player creation. The players created the lore through the storyline given to us and by developers who gave us the flexibility we needed throughout the entire game.


Does this mean you're bashing D3 for not sticking to player-created lore in D2? I don't even know how to respond to that seriously.

D3 is not a bad game at all and RoS is even better since it went more back to the roots of the previous games. RoS is much darker than Vanilla D3 and more malevolent. Act 1 of D3 is the best act for me because it revisits a bunch of Diablo's history with Adria, Old Tristram, The Cathedral, The Crypts (my interpretation of the Labyrinths), Leoric and the Skeleton King, The Butcher, etc. But as you move past Act 1, the game started to focus more on boss dialog and less on the sadness of Act 1.


I hated what they did with Leoric. The original background portrayed him as fighting against Diablo's influence and eventually WINNING, but leaving him mentally unstable and he descended into madness, partly as a result of Lazarus' machinations. It was a sad story.

Then D3 comes around, and suddenly Leoric had all this time to descend slowly into paranoia and sadism and build huge, sprawling torture chambers. Plus, they almost completely glossed over the possession and Lazarus (and the theft of his son) and made it seem as if everything happened because Leoric was a terrible person rather than a victim himself.

Consequently, I dislike Act 1 the most. The whole way through it I was thinking "are we really doing this AGAIN?"

There is not a SINGLE person who loves Diablo and Diablo 2 who were not sad to see and remember what had come of Griswold and Old Tristram.


Which was fine, but did we really need to see it a third time? I mean, what became of Tristram this time? The old square is abandoned, and the cathedral was silent until Tyrael decided to dive bomb it from Heaven.

On that note, I'm gonna' toss on my rose-colored glassed, grab my Godfather and Tal Rashaad's gloves and head to Westmatch and kill of Markael and Addia.


Don't lie. You'll be doing Rifts, Bounties or Greater Rifts.

You're not clever, either.
06/05/2016 01:28 PMPosted by ConanTheBarb
You might love to see this game were it would take 100 hours between beams of light.


Nobody even cares about your beloved D3 and what it's going to be in a few months, a year or even a decade, fanboy.

We are talking about a possible D4 you dim-witted, ardent defender of turd. If you want to defend D3, why don't you go make your own thread and whiteknight all you want. Reading you is a waste of time.


Oh how silly, my bad. D4 is already out and it takes only a few weeks to get all of the best gear in the game. You took that from my reply to someone that was saying it only takes a few weeks to get the best gear in this game. Since he was talking about this game then my reply would be about this game.

When someone else strays from the discussion of D4 talking about D1 or D2 I will base my responses on those posts that I reply to.

You can call it defending this game. Crying because I am not wanting this game to be a prettier clone of D2. Like D2 is a perfect game where the only thing the devs had to do for this game was copy and paste all of the same things in D2. With the only new stuff would be a graphics update and maybe, yes maybe a different story if the nostalgist would allow it. Making a game just for them is not good business sense.
I really want hard enemies back such as Hell Knights.
Id like D4 to be closer to D2 than D3. Keep the good from both et voilà!
Anything that brings us back to loot trading/farming, and being outside in the world and not some instanced map slot machine to grind endless levels or lose out. You know, how it was back when it was the best ARPG.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

We want more D1 and D2 style mood and "feel", but also revisiting old ruins of previously visited areas would definitely be awesome and give a feel of "I am back in sanctuary". In D3 I never had this feeling ever...


..... Half the places visited were already in ruins. Do you really need to go back and see the ruins again?

And again, how do you establish these places if you never go anywhere new? And what exactly is the "world of Sanctuary" if you only ever visit a few places?

D3 is much more WOW than Diablo (IMHO), when it comes to art direction. There is nothing wrong with having such an art direction in games like wow or other new franchises. Just not Diablo, as it missed the mark big time.


The art is fine. At most, the dark atmosphere in D1 is scary for the first playthrough when you don't know what's coming at you, but that's about it. We don't always have to be underground and the sky doesn't always have to be gloomy and overcast.

I wouldn't mind a little darker overall, but D3's graphics have a vibrant feel, and I don't really want to lose that.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

Grandfather/Godfather = It was 5am and I was exhausted. Sue me. Everyone knew I was referring to the damn Grandfather. People who start nitpicking such trival things such at that are just posting for the sake of posted (nice post count).


It's not exactly a nitpick given your argument, and since my post included much more than that anyway you really can't say I was posting for the sake of a post count.

Again, shouldn't you be speaking against D2 for abandoning so much stuff? Why does D2 get a pass, but D3 doesn't?

The weapons back then did not need flavor text


So why do they now?

and actually D2's weapons did not need flavor text because we created our own through RUNEWORDS. Certainly not as elaborate as it is now, but another example of player creation. The players created the lore through the storyline given to us and by developers who gave us the flexibility we needed throughout the entire game.


Does this mean you're bashing D3 for not sticking to player-created lore in D2? I don't even know how to respond to that seriously.

D3 is not a bad game at all and RoS is even better since it went more back to the roots of the previous games. RoS is much darker than Vanilla D3 and more malevolent. Act 1 of D3 is the best act for me because it revisits a bunch of Diablo's history with Adria, Old Tristram, The Cathedral, The Crypts (my interpretation of the Labyrinths), Leoric and the Skeleton King, The Butcher, etc. But as you move past Act 1, the game started to focus more on boss dialog and less on the sadness of Act 1.


I hated what they did with Leoric. The original background portrayed him as fighting against Diablo's influence and eventually WINNING, but leaving him mentally unstable and he descended into madness, partly as a result of Lazarus' machinations. It was a sad story.

Then D3 comes around, and suddenly Leoric had all this time to descend slowly into paranoia and sadism and build huge, sprawling torture chambers. Plus, they almost completely glossed over the possession and Lazarus (and the theft of his son) and made it seem as if everything happened because Leoric was a terrible person rather than a victim himself.

Consequently, I dislike Act 1 the most. The whole way through it I was thinking "are we really doing this AGAIN?"

There is not a SINGLE person who loves Diablo and Diablo 2 who were not sad to see and remember what had come of Griswold and Old Tristram.


Which was fine, but did we really need to see it a third time? I mean, what became of Tristram this time? The old square is abandoned, and the cathedral was silent until Tyrael decided to dive bomb it from Heaven.

On that note, I'm gonna' toss on my rose-colored glassed, grab my Godfather and Tal Rashaad's gloves and head to Westmatch and kill of Markael and Addia.


Don't lie. You'll be doing Rifts, Bounties or Greater Rifts.

You're not clever, either.


The weapons are just weapons. The argument both OP and myself have is the very linear gameplay assigned to us, and in respect to weapons, that translates into the lack of runewords. Runewords were the flavor text for players in D2. Sure, it's nice reading actual flavor text. I actually just saw the other day, while reading through the flavor text on Rogar's Huge Stone, that it speaks of Anu. That was a surprise to me and a good one at that. You may be the only person, next to maybe those hunting the final cosmetics down, where flavor text is so important and a point of argument.

In regards to lore: There's a link I found a while back of a Q&A with Blizzard's Lore and Art Panel about how they wanted to continue current lore and expand on it. I don't have the time to find it now, but it's on Google and easily accessible.

And for the 2nd time, Diablo was a 19-page pitch (you can also find this online), which describes in detail the atmosphere they wanted for the game. Diablo 2 made more of that atmosphere because they could, given the expanding abilities of game development, PC processing power and the like. It was Diablo 2 that introduced us to much of the lore itself. After all, the original Diablo game was walking a little ways from town and into the dungeon.

In D3, again, Act 1 is a great act. You have Queen Asylla's execution, the striking down of King Leoric, Cain's conversations about Aidan and what occurred 20 years prior. In A5, we get to read the books Adria leaves around that talks more about her relationship with Aidan and her giving herself to him (Diablo), thus creating Leah to be Diablo's vessel. The list goes on. Again, D3 is NOT a bad game and RoS is an even better game for adding some of the aforementioned and even more lore-related stories (Rakkis lore books, Adria's lore books, the ghosts of King Leoric's Army in the Caverns of Luray).

I also certainly do not mean "Guys, make a game where we revisit EVERY location we visited before." I was referring to the nostalgia many of us felt when revisiting Old Tristram, Pandamonium and The Battlefields of Eternity. But 20 years is not long at all where lore is concerned and I think lore should have been incorporated a bit more, but again, that's not saying you make an entire game to solely expand on previous lore because Diablo is a game where lore is also created. You can't just forget important lore, though. For example, there's an enormously relevant connection between Leoric, Aidan and Westmarch. Not a small connection and not a moderate connection. An enormous connection very relevant to the progression of the storyline. Where is that referenced other than very minimally in some of the books Rakki has scattered throughout A5 dungeons (that many players miss or just ignore)? What about that ridiculous death of Cain at the hands of one of the most worthless "bosses" in Diablo's history? Really? That's how you take Cain out? A pinnacle person in Diablo's lore since the beginning? These are just 2 huge points in Diablo lore that were muddled up in Diablo 3. Conversely, you have no idea how exciting it was to see Kanai's Stomping Grounds was basically identical to D2's Cow Level. That was fantastic.

Lastly, lore is a small but very relevant part of Diablo. The greatness of Diablo comes from expanding on lore in a cogent manner. Diablo 3 does inject lore into gameplay, but then it seems to fizzle off entirely or go completely AWOL.

You seem fixated on my minimal lore comment, or its lack thereof, and want to pointlessly disagree with another player's idea that lore is important to follow yet also expand on in a cogent manner. In a thread filled on good ideas, you're fixated on the lore entirely. You hate Act 1 and I love Act 1. I have no idea how long you played Diablo 2 but I still play Diablo 2 (MedianXL's mode + the Sin Wars realm). Obviously we will be in complete disagreement with each other if you honestly hated Act 1 and felt like it was "Are we doing this all over again?" Act 1 had a lot of D2 mixed in it but also a lot of new stuff and finally ended in completion. D3's beta was so well received because of exactly what you hate. With that, I'm not going to pointlessly argue with you about lore when this thread contains a ton of OTHER great ideas and I am not going to squelch those out on something I've now responded to you with for a 3rd time. And indeed I am clever, far more clever than you. It's the lack of cleverness that creates boring repetition, so it's no wonder your posts are beating a dead horse over and over again.

On another note, I'm really hoping Diablo 4, or another expansion, will lead us to Skovos Isles. That'd be a great way to introduce the Amazon again and a dense rain-forest environment would be awesome to see. That's one of the great things in D2 - the environment and atmosphere charged quite rapidly. From the dreary Cold Plains and the Sisters of the Sightless Eye, to the very bright Lost city, to the gloomy-yet bright Arreat Plateau to the hellishly dark City of the Damned, Durance of Hate and Nihlathak's Temple and its Halls locations.
06/06/2016 11:21 AMPosted by GodHand

The weapons are just weapons. The argument both OP and myself have is the very linear gameplay assigned to us, and in respect to weapons, that translates into the lack of runewords. Runewords were the flavor text for players in D2. Sure, it's nice reading actual flavor text. I actually just saw the other day, while reading through the flavor text on Rogar's Huge Stone, that it speaks of Anu. That was a surprise to me and a good one at that. You may be the only person, next to maybe those hunting the final cosmetics down, where flavor text is so important and a point of argument.


I asked why weapons needed flavor text, which would indicate that I don't think they're a point of argument.

I assumed flavor text was brought up because it often has bits of lore. Seems odd you wouldn't care about that what with your concern for lore, but whatever.

My understanding of Runewords - and it's been a long time - was that they were still linear. Moreover, the time invested to actually get the great ones.. well, suffice to say it took way too long.

And for the 2nd time, Diablo was a 19-page pitch (you can also find this online), which describes in detail the atmosphere they wanted for the game. Diablo 2 made more of that atmosphere because they could, given the expanding abilities of game development, PC processing power and the like. It was Diablo 2 that introduced us to much of the lore itself. After all, the original Diablo game was walking a little ways from town and into the dungeon.


So what about the OP's thing about wanting to revisit everything? If D2 - and D3 - hadn't expanded on the world there wouldn't be anything to visit.

And yet again, I ask why D2 gets a pass for not expanding on certain things.

No, it really wasn't D2 that introduced us to the lore. It was the compilations outside of the games. And no, I don't mean the Knaak novels.

In D3, again, Act 1 is a great act. You have Queen Asylla's executio


You mean that little side event a lot of players probably didn't even see for a while because it was off to the side in a little room you didn't need to go into? Yeah, okay.

the striking down of King Leoric


We did that already, remember? In fact, his raising makes little sense because Tyrael's fall caused the restless dead - those who hadn't gotten justice - to rise, but we already got justice for Leoric. Thrice, arguably - first we killed Lazarus, then Diablo was killed, and then Diablo was killed again and unable to come back.

Cain's conversations about Aidan and what occurred 20 years prior.


Didn't we play through that in D2? Adria's stuff about Aidan was more interesting, since we were learning who Leah was at the time.

I also certainly do not mean "Guys, make a game where we revisit EVERY location we visited before." I was referring to the nostalgia many of us felt when revisiting Old Tristram, Pandamonium and The Battlefields of Eternity.


And how many more old locations should we have visited in this game? I get Tristram because it's where everything started and the Pandemonium Fortress because it's a central point in the Conflict, but I don't think we need to be going back to Tal Rasha's tomb again, or the Zakarum temples or whatever else. This is my problem with the OP regarding this - he seems to think the majority of the game should be revisiting old locations. So even if you don't mean that, HE seems to.

You seem fixated on my minimal lore comment, or its lack thereof, and want to pointlessly disagree with another player's idea that lore is important to follow yet also expand on in a cogent manner. In a thread filled on good ideas, you're fixated on the lore entirely. You hate Act 1 and I love Act 1. I have no idea how long you played Diablo 2 but I still play Diablo 2 (MedianXL's mode + the Sin Wars realm). Obviously we will be in complete disagreement with each other if you honestly hated Act 1 and felt like it was "Are we doing this all over again?" Act 1 had a lot of D2 mixed in it but also a lot of new stuff and finally ended in completion.


Honestly? I care less about lore than you seem to.

Yes, Act 1 had some new things.. but it was overshadowed by the bad. Including a bunch of stuff about the coven and one of the worst bosses in Diablo, right?

Speaking of Cain's death, how did the hero get suckered into leaving pieces of an important artifact with 2 people who had no powers? In almost every other quest I've ever heard of, the hero tends to keep possession of the items until he has them all, and then turns them in. It's not like we got half of Kulle's blood and then delivered it to Caldeum before getting the other half.

D3's beta was so well received because of exactly what you hate.


No, D3's beta was so well received because of the excellent graphics, superb combat system, promises of PvP, seemingly varied skills, etc.

I don't remember hearing tons of praise for the story. Ever. And I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure Cain's death wasn't in the beta, so even it had been praised for the lore wouldn't that have killed such praise from you?

And indeed I am clever, far more clever than you. It's the lack of cleverness that creates boring repetition, so it's no wonder your posts are beating a dead horse over and over again.


So you intentionally misspelling 6 words in a paragraph wasn't repetition? 'Cause it seems to me doing something over and over again is the definition of it. In fact, that's the reason I said you weren't clever. Once would have been clever, and twice overkill. 6 was asinine.

On another note, I'm really hoping Diablo 4, or another expansion, will lead us to Skovos Isles. That'd be a great way to introduce the Amazon again and a dense rain-forest environment would be awesome to see. That's one of the great things in D2 - the environment and atmosphere charged quite rapidly. From the dreary Cold Plains and the Sisters of the Sightless Eye, to the very bright Lost city, to the gloomy-yet bright Arreat Plateau to the hellishly dark City of the Damned, Durance of Hate and Nihlathak's Temple and its Halls locations.


I don't see that D3 had a lack of different areas. Underground, desert, snow, hell, heaven, corrupted heaven, forest, plains, etc.

Skovos being part of D4 would be fine, but I don't know if there's enough there to be the main area of an expansion.
06/06/2016 11:21 AMPosted by GodHand
Lastly, lore is a small but very relevant part of Diablo. The greatness of Diablo comes from expanding on lore in a cogent manner. Diablo 3 does inject lore into gameplay, but then it seems to fizzle off entirely or go completely AWOL


It's not really the lore that's a problem in D3, but it's the way it's conveyed. Who really wants things like the Cain Butterfly death and bosses who remind you of how 'evil' they are by doing 'muahahahaha' in your face every 5 seconds?
06/06/2016 12:33 PMPosted by DaFemaleBoss
It's not really the lore that's a problem in D3, but it's the way it's conveyed. Who really wants things like the Cain Butterfly death and bosses who remind you of how 'evil' they are by doing 'muahahahaha' in your face every 5 seconds?


Cain was an old man and the players of D2 knew he would be biting the bullet in this game. Horadrim are not immortal, like some Highlander type of beings where the death of a horadrim will give all of the power and skills of the dead horadrim into a living one. It is not like Cain gained all of the power, knowledge, skills of every other horadrim before him.

He was a simple loremaster and scholar, a man that was in poor health. A man that went through a lot before his death.

In his final moments before death he was under great pain. That last attack could've been designed to kill a horadrim. In real magic what appears as harmless can be the most dangerous things you could ever come across.

Anyone that wants him to be taken out by anyone greater than her in a long pitched battle. Being killed by Diablo as the prime evil isn't thinking properly. Heck if he can hold he's own for many hours against the prime evil then why have us around. He could've handled all of the other problems till Diablo.
@Orrion,

I'm glad I can just skim your novels of nonsense instead of having to read them in their entirity, since essentially you regurgitate the same bunk over and over.

Where's our build diversity "in the billions"? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104608-BlizzCon-2010-Billions-of-Class-Builds-Await-in-Diablo-III

Where's our PvP arenas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrGE3VLiSk (though it's probably best this never gets in the game now. With the total class imbalances, people would rage-quit by the hundreds).

Where's our attribute system? http://www.diablowiki.net/images/thumb/f/f9/Interface-char-beta-sml.jpg/250px-Interface-char-beta-sml.jpg

Honestly this speaks volumes:

My understanding of Runewords - and it's been a long time - was that they were still linear. Moreover, the time invested to actually get the great ones.. well, suffice to say it took way too long.


You do not even have a proper understanding of runewords. Ladders would often offer different, and more powerful runewords. They were anything but linear. You could make a runeword like Ethereal for your merc, out of 3 runes, or Destruction, out of 5 runes, etc. Again, this was Diablo 2's flavor text. I will NOT SAY Diablo 3's flavor text is bad, because I personally enjoy reading them, just as I enjoy listening to the various journals acquired throughout the acts from time-to-time.

My last comment regarding lore, since it's evident you've forgotten most of it, or are simply blind to its importance. I will direct you to this excellent post I saved years back that was an open letter to Jay Wilson. Perhaps you can actually read it. I'm sure you'll have a dismissive reaction to it, but maybe it will help you understand where my position on the importance of lore is derived from, as I see no point in making such a lengthy, albeit wonderful, post.

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/28667-why-the-diablo-3-story-fails-an-open-letter

Diablo's epoch is very relevant and very important, and that can only be further exemplified and then expanded upon when its lore is used routinely throughout the gameplay. Not to the extent of annoyance, but subtly. Again, here I reflect back to Act 1, where you see Queen Asylla being executed right after killing the Warden, or the striking down of King Leoric, the return of Adria, or even the revisiting of important locations. Now you can misconstrue this all you want "How many places do you want to revisit? We've already been there!" Key word: subtle. That's how lore is preserved and expanded upon. An example of Diablo 3 expanding on past lore was when they actually gave the Dark Wanderer a name - Aidan. That was superb.

Really nothing further needs to be conversed between us because you lack the fundamental understanding of what Diablo has always been about. You feel powerful runes "took way too long," and yet I do not remember a time in Diablo 2 where people complained about this. And this was when IRC was the prime chat program used for gaming. There was no TS, Discord, Curse and the like; it was good 'ol IRC, which I still use today. GamesNET particularly, before it became GameSurge due to a lawsuit, though unfortunately now pretty much dead. Over 500 people idled in the channel #D2 on GamesNET, and as I browse old logs, I'm finding very little complaining about rune rarity. Most of what I read are players excited about finding one. This was also a time when players did not have this ridiculous notion they were entitled to certain things, and the reason for that I stated: Blizzard Support did not condone such behavior and that type of behavior was never rewarded. Even when Pindleskin was nerfed in 1.09, there were very few complaints. Sure people were unhappy but there was none of this complaining and moaning we see now. Diablo has and always will be a loot-hunt game.

Loot-hunt games are not designed to be instantly gratifying or even gratifying over a certain period of time. Along the way you get items you may not necessary be looking for, but are fantastic upgrades nonetheless and keep motivating you to farm and push further. Not to mention the ability to literally make any elemental build end-game viable gave people the ability to even completely switch their original direction simply because a BiS item dropped for them they never expected or really thought about. Then through some theory-crafting, they create a monster hero. In D3, it's 1 build per class that's viable, or you build a support class. That's a very far cry from the "billions" claimed in my link above.

My excitement now is that all the Evils have been released, and Diablo has now become the Tathamet. The Tathamet brings us to the very beginnings of the Diablo universe. I can only hope the next Diablo installment really capitalizes on this in a glorious fashion. I thank Diablo herself players like you are in the minority as I browse this thread.
06/06/2016 12:33 PMPosted by DaFemaleBoss
06/06/2016 11:21 AMPosted by GodHand
Lastly, lore is a small but very relevant part of Diablo. The greatness of Diablo comes from expanding on lore in a cogent manner. Diablo 3 does inject lore into gameplay, but then it seems to fizzle off entirely or go completely AWOL


It's not really the lore that's a problem in D3, but it's the way it's conveyed. Who really wants things like the Cain Butterfly death and bosses who remind you of how 'evil' they are by doing 'muahahahaha' in your face every 5 seconds?


Yeah that's a very good point. The lore conveyed was done in almost a comical fashion when there's nothing comical about it. I didn't really think of it that way, so thanks for posting that.
06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
Where's our build diversity "in the billions"? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104608-BlizzCon-2010-Billions-of-Class-Builds-Await-in-Diablo-III


I am certain that both you and I know full well you will not be able to make billions of builds viable in the highest difficulty there is. To do that you would have to homogenize all skills, runes, gear, classes, etc...

06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
Where's our PvP arenas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrGE3VLiSk (though it's probably best this never gets in the game now. With the total class imbalances, people would rage-quit by the hundreds).


Arenas can exist, but in order to do so Blizz would have to put in special tools that they can use to change the skills, gear, paragon points, etc... to where it would be fair for all. These tools and changes would only affect players that are PvP'ing, think Marvel Heroes Online Fire and Ice PvP.

06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
Where's our attribute system? http://www.diablowiki.net/images/thumb/f/f9/Interface-char-beta-sml.jpg/250px-Interface-char-beta-sml.jpg


I am almost certain that you do know why we don't have attribute points to spend. Regardless of how they would make such a system. You would have one right way to spend those points. That way would be used by the majority of the players.

06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
My last comment regarding lore, since it's evident you've forgotten most of it, or are simply blind to its importance. I will direct you to this excellent post I saved years back that was an open letter to Jay Wilson. Perhaps you can actually read it. I'm sure you'll have a dismissive reaction to it, but maybe it will help you understand where my position on the importance of lore is derived from, as I see no point in making such a lengthy, albeit wonderful, post.

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/28667-why-the-diablo-3-story-fails-an-open-letter


What I got out of that time period is that players were looking for Jay to say. Man I didn't know what I was talking about. Everyone hates the story we told. Then change the story to where it is a copy of D2's story with the twist in the beginning where maybe Inarius had found a way to create a worldstone that was identical to the one that Tyrael shattered at the end of LOD. Then the exact D2 story could be there with the only difference being prettier graphics. After all everyone had to hate the story.

Just because a story is highly criticized doesn't mean that everyone hates it. Or that it is impossible for Jay to find a lot of people that actually liked the story.
My expectations for the story is something like this:

"Deckard Cain wakes up in a dark, gothic and atmospheric world that borders on psychological horror. Opens his eyes and say: 'By the horadrim! I just had the most weird dream, where we lived in a bubble-gum cartoon world and the prime evil had teats... I will never eat those mushrooms ever again!'".
06/07/2016 01:42 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
Where's our build diversity "in the billions"? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104608-BlizzCon-2010-Billions-of-Class-Builds-Await-in-Diablo-III


I am certain that both you and I know full well you will not be able to make billions of builds viable in the highest difficulty there is. To do that you would have to homogenize all skills, runes, gear, classes, etc...

06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
Where's our PvP arenas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrGE3VLiSk (though it's probably best this never gets in the game now. With the total class imbalances, people would rage-quit by the hundreds).


Arenas can exist, but in order to do so Blizz would have to put in special tools that they can use to change the skills, gear, paragon points, etc... to where it would be fair for all. These tools and changes would only affect players that are PvP'ing, think Marvel Heroes Online Fire and Ice PvP.

06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
Where's our attribute system? http://www.diablowiki.net/images/thumb/f/f9/Interface-char-beta-sml.jpg/250px-Interface-char-beta-sml.jpg


I am almost certain that you do know why we don't have attribute points to spend. Regardless of how they would make such a system. You would have one right way to spend those points. That way would be used by the majority of the players.

06/06/2016 07:41 PMPosted by GodHand
My last comment regarding lore, since it's evident you've forgotten most of it, or are simply blind to its importance. I will direct you to this excellent post I saved years back that was an open letter to Jay Wilson. Perhaps you can actually read it. I'm sure you'll have a dismissive reaction to it, but maybe it will help you understand where my position on the importance of lore is derived from, as I see no point in making such a lengthy, albeit wonderful, post.

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/28667-why-the-diablo-3-story-fails-an-open-letter


What I got out of that time period is that players were looking for Jay to say. Man I didn't know what I was talking about. Everyone hates the story we told. Then change the story to where it is a copy of D2's story with the twist in the beginning where maybe Inarius had found a way to create a worldstone that was identical to the one that Tyrael shattered at the end of LOD. Then the exact D2 story could be there with the only difference being prettier graphics. After all everyone had to hate the story.

Just because a story is highly criticized doesn't mean that everyone hates it. Or that it is impossible for Jay to find a lot of people that actually liked the story.


Hah, obviously "billions" would be ludicrous, but 1 or 2 is also ludicrous. I don't think it's unreasonable for players to want more than 1 viable build, nor the flexibility to wield any element they want.

People were not looking for Diablo 2 v 2.0 in Diablo 3, but they were expecting more than what was given to them. People did not want a mirror of Diablo 2, but they did want Diablo 3 to preserve the essence Diablo 2 brought to the table. That essence was player flexibility, a reasonable amount of build variations, music and atmospheric elements that fluctuated within Acts, while of course adding to the lore in a cogent manner. All very reasonable expectations and a lot of that was given in the expansion. In the expansion we got the lore books and toms of Rakki, we got the tomes and lore books of Adria, etc. This is where RoS exceeds D2 and LoD - the addition of lore-related tomes and books really was a great achievement, and pegged by the dev team. Going through Pandamonium and picking up the toms and lore books of Lilith is another example. The fight with Malthael was hard as hell when the expansion first came out, remember? Player did NOT want to lower difficulty but had to, and the development team was applauded for all of RoS (and rightly so). RoS is definitely a great expansion.

Unfortunately, though, things became more and more watered down. Greater Rifts were nice but not how they are now. There's no incentive for players to create other classes unless they're trying to complete all the set dungeons. A lot of players do not even have a DPS class, just a support class. What's that about? While in Diablo 2, it took me forever to get to level 99 as a regular player, but after I had completed my Necrosummoner, I wanted to do something else, so I started a Chain Lightning/Static Charge Sorceress (one of the best classes for absolutely melting Hell difficulty Cow Level), then a Concecrator/WW Barb. But few classes could still solo Hell Baal without at least a good merc. Lightning Sorceress would need a Polearm with the Infinity runeword on their merc for the conviction aura. Necronummoners could easily do Baal runs solo and one of the few classes that could do it with ease. The only thing that drove me nuts about D2 is everyone huddling by Baal when he was about to die to grab the loot, since there was no individual loot for each player. You'd have to be as quick as possible to grab what he dropped before anyone else. This, unfortunately, brought auto-pickup hacks into the picture. Then came duping, and the rest is history. Okay, I got a little off track there. Hard not to when I'm playing D2 on the Sin Wars realm as I type this. Anyways...

The D3 beta was so well received because Act 1 in particular has a lot of past lore references, a dark and Gothic atmosphere, and showed was has since come of Old Tristram. Old Tristram up, all the way up to the Old Ruins to the Cathedral, ultimately seeing the glorious Skeleton King and finally ending his poisoning of the people of Tristram. IMO a very satisfying completion when we played the beta, and we wanted more. Upon its release, more was definitely given in Act 1. The Halls of Agony, with its blood-soaked walls, torture champers, iron maidens and spike-traps were all utterly fantastic. And the return of The Butcher with much better graphics was phenomenal. Then, as I said, you move into Act 2 and it seems like all the greatness that was Act 1 for the millions who love D2 was thrown aside. I remember when only DHs and Wizards could even make it past Act 2. Sundered Canyon wasps, anyone?

The game was severely over-hyped. If I recall correctly, Bashiok warned us of this; feeling the game was way too over-hyped and players would be left disappointed. Well, a decade of waiting and numerous release push-backs will fuel the hype "It's pushed back so they must be making it better." Then the beta came and it was even over-hyped more for reasons I already stated.

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