IK6+BK2 vs. WW6+BK2: Simple Math

Barbarian
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Haven't read the whole thread, but my question is this - what does rend damage output look like between the two setups?

If I was going to bother with IK/WW I'd do it for Rend not for WW because dust devils at 2500% is clearly stronger for the WW dps.
06/05/2016 09:07 AMPosted by Cyvert
If I was going to bother with IK/WW I'd do it for Rend not for WW because dust devils at 2500% is clearly stronger for the WW dps.
That was the top season build on what...season 2? WW5IK3 + RoRG

I don't think anything would change at that point: Lamenation and RoRG still are must cube items because FnR grants the crazy DPS. Furnace continues being the cubed weapon because there are no weapons with affixes that boost WW or Rend.

Immortal King's set will forever be a threat to pure set builds due to the retarded design decision of making it an "all around set" without considering the fact that it has two off-slots (weapon and belt).

Anyways...chances are high that either of these sets are getting a rework next season. I'm betting on Wastes though. It will be interesting seeing what devs will do to make it outperform Raekor's + IK.
06/05/2016 09:07 AMPosted by Cyvert
Haven't read the whole thread, but my question is this - what does rend damage output look like between the two setups?

If I was going to bother with IK/WW I'd do it for Rend not for WW because dust devils at 2500% is clearly stronger for the WW dps.


That build, known as 4x Rend, was strong a few eras back (Alkaizer took rank 1 solo, I believe). And the build is even stronger now since IK and PE was buffed.

However, like WW, it pales next to MOTE, Frenzy Thorns, and Raekors. The build is glassy and Fury starved and very touchy to play. Not a terrible build, but not great either. Frankly, no one is pushing with it right now, so I'd be curious to see how far it can go.

This debate isn't what the thread was about. The OP was simply showing, via mathematic truth, that WW using WW6 set is more powerful than WW using IK6 set. The reasoning was laid out clearly, and has been reiterated a few times over the last 9 pages.


Good to see another voice of reason.

06/05/2016 12:09 AMPosted by Telejensen
Let me underline this, again: Wastes will be superior in GR pushing. No doubt! But as many other than me said, not by much and only a few GR.


Context, please. When Archael and I say that Wastes will always be a few GR ahead of IK WW, we're talking about the current range of player paragon (1200-3000). In fact, I believe Arch was still under 3k paragon when he shredded 85 with Wastes in PTR. And I don't think he hit a gear wall; correct me if I'm wrong, Arch, but you could have pushed higher, correct?

The point is that the higher you take Wastes and the higher your paragon, the more it outperforms IK due to Blood Funnel and Dust Devil reliance, plain and simple.

So, if we expand that out to a paragon 4k player, Wastes is suddenly 5-10 tiers above IK.

In other words, Wastes will always scale better with paragon, and paragon is the deciding factor in pushing GR (and speed-farming TX).
If you want Rend to do meaningful damage, I believe you need to go IK6/WW4 now. In the past it was just IK6/WW2.

Without combining the 2 sets though, Rend is quite worthless.
I cleared 88 in PTR with Wastes, then over-wrote that clear with a Frenzy clear (also at 88) with a faster time. That was with 2500 paragon or something.

06/05/2016 12:09 AMPosted by Telejensen
Let me underline this, again: Wastes will be superior in GR pushing. No doubt! But as many other than me said, not by much and only a few GR.


Sorry, I think I did not express myself properly.

When I say "a few GR higher", I do NOT mean 1-5 GR, I mean 5-10 GR higher.

The difference is huge. WW6 is several orders of magnitude stronger than IK6 for pushing.
Does IK6 even exist anymore?
Yeah, it's perfect for the Potato League.
wtb ik pieces....all of them!!
06/06/2016 09:41 AMPosted by Archael
I cleared 88 in PTR with Wastes, then over-wrote that clear with a Frenzy clear (also at 88) with a faster time. That was with 2500 paragon or something.

06/05/2016 12:09 AMPosted by Telejensen
Let me underline this, again: Wastes will be superior in GR pushing. No doubt! But as many other than me said, not by much and only a few GR.


Sorry, I think I did not express myself properly.

When I say "a few GR higher", I do NOT mean 1-5 GR, I mean 5-10 GR higher.

The difference is huge. WW6 is several orders of magnitude stronger than IK6 for pushing.


And I just want to point out that 5-10 can be simplified as 7.5, and 7 GRs is 3x the damage.

SO BAM!

Take that potato and smoke it. How you like me now haters?
06/06/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Jako
How you like me now haters?
less now than I did before
06/06/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Jako
Take that potato and smoke it.


light me up brotato!
IK 6 was an inside job
I played around with IK6 whirlwind during the weekend. The results was better than I thought.

- Managed to clear an 83 without too much issues.
- Gear was dual skull grasp / Slanderer + Little Rogue / Ancients Fury Shoulders in Cube
- Dust Devil Skill Rune / Swords to Plowshares
- DPS is actually surprisingly quite decent. AOE is ok-ish. ST is strong due to stricken bug and ancients dealing decent damage (ST is Stronger than WOTW I found)
- Major drawback is toughness + heals. Toughness is the major hurdle as I found myself dying too much even on GR85.
- WOTW is going to clear a few GR's higher for sure due to the 50% DR from the 4 piece bonus and stronger AOE from the 6 piece bonus.

IK6 with BK swords is actually a very viable T10 build (less so for progression). Was surprised at how fast this was actually since I had put any pure IK build in the "no-hoper" bucket. Overall it's viable and quite fun.
06/06/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Jako
And I just want to point out that 5-10 can be simplified as 7.5, and 7 GRs is 3x the damage.

SO BAM!

Take that potato and smoke it. How you like me now haters?


Thanks, I now have coffee on my screen and keyboard. Better than the alternative but I'm still piss'd.
06/06/2016 11:18 PMPosted by DAKKON
I played around with IK6 whirlwind during the weekend. The results was better than I thought.

- Managed to clear an 83 without too much issues.
- Gear was dual skull grasp / Slanderer + Little Rogue / Ancients Fury Shoulders in Cube
- Dust Devil Skill Rune / Swords to Plowshares
- DPS is actually surprisingly quite decent. AOE is ok-ish. ST is strong due to stricken bug and ancients dealing decent damage (ST is Stronger than WOTW I found)
- Major drawback is toughness + heals. Toughness is the major hurdle as I found myself dying too much even on GR85.
- WOTW is going to clear a few GR's higher for sure due to the 50% DR from the 4 piece bonus and stronger AOE from the 6 piece bonus.

IK6 with BK swords is actually a very viable T10 build (less so for progression). Was surprised at how fast this was actually since I had put any pure IK build in the "no-hoper" bucket. Overall it's viable and quite fun.


@DAKKON, ya. That's basically what I (and Free and a few others) was trying to say. The base Whirlwind damage will really shine on that single target. But WW6 with PoC/IP, Bloodlust, and the AoE make it superior for GR pushing.
06/06/2016 03:16 PMPosted by KingBenjamin
06/06/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Jako
Take that potato and smoke it.


light me up brotato!


Pass the tater precious, puff puff pass man
Just thought I'd put this here for any TX speed runners http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/jay-1401/hero/66109200

Disclaimer: Not my build, its a combination of several TX speed runners. It's just a fast/fun alternative to other builds I've seen in the forum, not necessarily better. Why Furious charge with no F/R? Gap closer/gtfo the bad. Avarice band is an excellent solution to missing elite globes, you can kill a white pack nearly a screen away from a long death animation elite and still get globes. I've been using the ring all season and like it better than SOJ. The ring is also amazing for Pound of Flesh.

My character needs several gear improvements, my Avarice band should be cdr/chd/cc and my shoulders should be str/vit/ad/cdr and my HFA should have lightning damage instead of strength.Perhaps more area damage, if dropping vit rolls of gear then swap Hexing to Mantle if survival is a problem.

At a higher paragon level or if adding augments I'd drop hexing pants/MOC in cube for Warzech/Gloves of Worship.
06/06/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Jako
And I just want to point out that 5-10 can be simplified as 7.5, and 7 GRs is 3x the damage.

SO BAM!

Take that potato and smoke it. How you like me now haters?


Barzog spotted.
Well I tried five 60s with wastes 6 /bk2, and five 60s with IK 6/bk2 and all ended up around 10 minutes, while IK felt more fun to play.

Maybe 60 is not a good test anymore , most of my other guys are doing around 70.

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