IK6+BK2 vs. WW6+BK2: Simple Math

Barbarian
Prev 1 6 7 8 23 Next
06/01/2016 08:06 PMPosted by Siladil
If it's wrong to be a noob, then I don't wanna be right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY
06/01/2016 06:17 PMPosted by Sokon

Anyone apply, noobs, noobs that write guides for other noobs - these two groups imparticular - or anyone else for that matter.
wot, i guess you better change some barb builds then there boss man.
what i don't get is that he's calling people noobs around here, however, he's the one challenging people to TX!!! lmao.
God dammit I hate I saw this thread - now I have to agree with Enoone...

A lot of you miss the fact that IK6 can bolster higher average values, but some of you get it.

Next thing that seems to miss a lot, is the switch between 1 passive and 1 active skill - not that important but it changes a few things.

What all of you seem to miss is how IK6 work. IK boosts ALL damage, not just the DD's. And that means IK has 80% more AD than WW6 because with IK6 Battle Rage - Bloodshed will do 5x it's damage (or 100% [actually 140% if you include elemental damage]) to everything sorrounding it, the same will the Whirlwind hits. WW6 can't do this, it will stay at 20% damage to all around (or 28% if you want to go into details).

It's still a huge sell point.

However, IK struggles with survivability. You can see that in every single IK build, so...

made a quick comparison of the 2 here:
http://www.d3planner.com/871876322

Edit: corrected a minor error in the numbers
Thank you KiWeN. Thats the kind of info i hoped for someone to know. Unfortunatly i am too noobish to debate because i cant argue without that kind of knowledge. I can just FEEL theres more to the story of IK6 than they try to tell everyone. Thats whats bothers me, making a new thread to tell all who are interested in WW that IK6 sucks, and WW6 deal 2,78x the damage. Thats just too simple and imho stupid conclusion when you can tell theres not much between the damage of the two.

Free. Thank you for your time trying to explain it all man, i like that very much. Youre mostly right about it all. I would wish you could be just a little bit open for the possibility theres something you have overlooked in agreeing, and applauding, OP's conclusions.

Jesper.
06/02/2016 06:55 AMPosted by KingBenjamin
what i don't get is that he's calling people noobs around here, however, he's the one challenging people to TX!!! lmao.


Thats only because some ppl making claims about wastes is the fastest speedbuild for TX. He then challenges them to prove it.
I play WW quite a bit, and after switch to IK I feel quite a bit more DPSy. You won't hear any hard numbers from me, but I think you are missing both the Hexing pants, and the fact that your dps is coming from the skill itself in IK, not the tornadoes.
06/02/2016 07:09 AMPosted by KiWeN
God dammit I hate I saw this thread - now I have to agree with Enoone...

A lot of you miss the fact that IK6 can bolster higher average values, but some of you get it.

Next thing that seems to miss a lot, is the switch between 1 passive and 1 active skill - not that important but it changes a few things.

What all of you seem to miss is how IK6 work. IK boosts ALL damage, not just the DD's. And that means IK has 80% more AD than WW6 because with IK6 Battle Rage - Bloodshed will do 5x it's damage (or 100% [actually 140% if you include elemental damage]) to everything sorrounding it, the same will the Whirlwind hits. WW6 can't do this, it will stay at 20% damage to all around (or 28% if you want to go into details).

It's still a huge sell point.

However, IK struggles with survivability. You can see that in every single IK build, so...

made a quick comparison of the 2 here:
http://www.d3planner.com/871876322

Edit: corrected a minor error in the numbers


I don't think you understand some things. Particularly how important Area Damage is. With Wastes, you are hitting a lot more targets with basically all of your damage. You're basically hitting everything on screen with Dust Devils. Area Damage scales so insanely the more enemies you hit last I checked. Did I miss a change to AD? And those super Dust Devils are triggering Bloodshed still...so that point confuses me?

IK6's damage range is much smaller. You're hitting fewer enemies with your main damage and not benefitting nearly as well from AD as Wastes.
o_O
There are some entrenched attitudes on both sides here.

There's no point going on about tX. Both options can be made very fast, and the actual time varies with how much you pick up.

Since we can't agree on the theory, do we have some grift clears for comparison? The leaderboards aren't much use, since any ww build is well off the top now.
06/02/2016 07:09 AMPosted by KiWeN
And that means IK has 80% more AD than WW6 because with IK6 Battle Rage - Bloodshed will do 5x it's damage (or 100% [actually 140% if you include elemental damage])


At any high tier (high for WW right now, that is), IK WW swaps Bloodshed for Swords to Ploughs because IK WW can't easily get IP with Ignorance and it flat-out can't take Blood Funnel.

Bye-bye Bloodshed damage.

Meanwhile, Wastes sticks with stacked AD, Bloodshed, and Blood Funnel.

06/02/2016 07:09 AMPosted by KiWeN
It's still a huge sell point.


It isn't. It's a lemon on the lot.

Blood Funnel is the shiny new model with the reduced sticker price.

Look, I laid it all out on the previous page. Give that a read.

06/02/2016 10:47 AMPosted by Telejensen
I can just FEEL theres more to the story of IK6 than they try to tell everyone. Thats whats bothers me, making a new thread to tell all who are interested in WW that IK6 sucks, and WW6 deal 2,78x the damage.


As I pointed out previously, no, there isn't, and your conclusion is based on feelings as opposed to experience and analysis.

06/02/2016 10:47 AMPosted by Telejensen
Thats just too simple and imho stupid conclusion when you can tell theres not much between the damage of the two.


Wrong again. There's a few GR tiers at the very least between the two, more than most people think, I suspect. In my book, you owe Jako an apology.

06/02/2016 10:47 AMPosted by Telejensen
Free. Thank you for your time trying to explain it all man, i like that very much. Youre mostly right about it all. I would wish you could be just a little bit open for the possibility theres something you have overlooked in agreeing, and applauding, OP's conclusions.


You're welcome. But let me stress again that the OP is correct. Dust Devils matter and Blood Funnel sells the package.

And one final point: this is all peanuts. Frenzy Thorns, MOTE, and Raekor are much, much stronger, and we can only hope Wastes gets buffed in 2.whatever.

But for now, here's a good rubric to use.

Imagine a player with 3000 paragon, high-level gems, and GG gear. And let's say he clears 88 with IK WW (while every other set is cracking 95+).

That same player with the same paragon, gem levels, and quality of gear will, provided the build is set up correctly and played right, clear 90-92 with Wastes.

It's a sad picture and not worth the effort, but you get the idea.
Free man, listen to what i write plz: Read it twice if you need.

Yes, youre again right in GR potential, healing and all that.

BUT:

In the OP its in the DAMAGE, and only DAMAGE compare i disagree in his conclusion. The conclusion as to ww6 beats ik6 x2,78 is wrong. Like it or not, thats how it is. Call the thread something else then.

Apology no. You cant leave out damage in a damage comparison, how can you not get that?

Yes he calls it simple math, but the math is so simple that he rules out even the MAIN damage of the build.
05/31/2016 02:42 PMPosted by Jako
05/30/2016 11:18 AMPosted by Jako
5 * 2.25 * 4 * 1.5 * 1.25 * 120% ==> 10,125% weapon damage per Dust Devil


05/30/2016 11:18 AMPosted by Jako
1.5 * 1.5 * 4 * 1.25 * 2,500% ==> 28,125% weapon damage per Dust Devil


05/30/2016 11:18 AMPosted by Jako
Dust Devil


From the get go I specified Dust Devil damage
06/02/2016 02:15 PMPosted by Telejensen
You cant leave out damage in a damage comparison, how can you not get that?


Because Dust Devils are what matters.

And that was the point of his OP.
Edit the op then, and dont ignore all the other massive damage from ik6 that you dont have on ww6.
06/02/2016 02:22 PMPosted by Telejensen
Edit the op then, and dont ignore all the other massive damage from ik6 that you dont have on ww6.


What's the magic word?
No need to edit OP. I already specified Dust Devils in the OP. You and a few other players getting all excited about the base Whirlwind damage don't really bother me.
Seriously, i feel like im being succesfully supertrolled.

Why oh why do you judge the damage from anything NOT the DD's not worthy? Its beyond me.
06/02/2016 02:44 PMPosted by Telejensen
Seriously, i feel like im being succesfully supertrolled.

Why oh why do you judge the damage from anything NOT the DD's not worthy? Its beyond me.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/20744814930?page=6#101

Re-read it. Then shh until you go and play both sets in 75 and see it in action.

06/02/2016 02:37 PMPosted by Siladil
What's the magic word?


Butter.
This reminds me of a geeky discussion on a car forum i once read. It was about some ppl claiming that NM from a petrolengine was more powerfull than NM on a dieselengine.

I think im gonna leave it here, you get where im at. Just gonna popcorn this thread and maybe a little halleluja once in a while when someone prove youre wrong. Not entirely wrong, just the damage wrong.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum