IK6+BK2 vs. WW6+BK2: Simple Math

Barbarian
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06/02/2016 02:59 PMPosted by Telejensen

I think im gonna leave it here, you get where im at.
This is normally what people say when they have nothing to add that can or cannot prove yourself right.
06/02/2016 03:05 PMPosted by henry
06/02/2016 02:59 PMPosted by Telejensen

I think im gonna leave it here, you get where im at.
This is normally what people say when they have nothing to add that can or cannot prove yourself right.


Have you read the thread? Youre right. I dont understand the mechanics, all im saying is that Jako didnt calculate damage that IS there. He's logic is: In a ww6 build only DD damage is important, so he only calculate the DD damage from the build to compare it too, even thou THAT build does the damage in another way.
06/02/2016 03:15 PMPosted by Telejensen
even thou THAT build does the damage in another way.


But that is insignificant. It's not what matters in the build. Dust Devils are the key.
06/02/2016 02:59 PMPosted by Telejensen
This reminds me of a geeky discussion on a car forum i once read. It was about some ppl claiming that NM from a petrolengine was more powerfull than NM on a dieselengine.

I think im gonna leave it here, you get where im at. Just gonna popcorn this thread and maybe a little halleluja once in a while when someone prove youre wrong. Not entirely wrong, just the damage wrong.


06/02/2016 02:44 PMPosted by Telejensen
Seriously, i feel like im being succesfully supertrolled.

Why oh why do you judge the damage from anything NOT the DD's not worthy? Its beyond me.


Free already explained in very simple terms why DD damage is much more important.

Which part are you confused about? I don't think you're being trolled. Mechanics were explained to you, and you just say "why?" and ignore the explanation.

He did take the time to explain it to you. Are you sure you're not the one trolling?

And yeah, if you want to compare the two variants in GRift (not just T10), you'll see that Wastes is going to come out ahead. The highest possible GR Clear with Wastes on any given player is always going to be higher than his or her highest possible clear with IK6WW.
06/02/2016 07:09 AMPosted by KiWeN
And that means IK has 80% more AD than WW6 because with IK6 Battle Rage - Bloodshed will do 5x it's damage (or 100% [actually 140% if you include elemental damage])


At any high tier (high for WW right now, that is), IK WW swaps Bloodshed for Swords to Ploughs because IK WW can't easily get IP with Ignorance and it flat-out can't take Blood Funnel.

Bye-bye Bloodshed damage.

Meanwhile, Wastes sticks with stacked AD, Bloodshed, and Blood Funnel.

06/02/2016 07:09 AMPosted by KiWeN
It's still a huge sell point.


It isn't. It's a lemon on the lot.

Blood Funnel is the shiny new model with the reduced sticker price.

Look, I laid it all out on the previous page. Give that a read.

[/quote]
And that's what I said, IK set lacks survivability becoming it's largest weakness especially in terms of GR, but it can bolster really good TX.

But it's nice that you can repeat that in some obscure sense.
its funny you ask for buffs to wastes only but at the same time point out that ik is actually weaker in terms of gr clears. if any set is buffed next patch it should be ik first to be honest. especially the 6p bonus and not wastes.

adding all runes for wotb to the 6p and making them ik p6 ONLY would help already and wouldnt be op anymore with current powercreep.

i am not going to discuss gr clears as i stopped caring about this endless nonsense powercreep which will never be balanced anyway as blizz likes to force ONE setup per patch.

the point still stands. wastes is not MUCH faster than ik6 at tx at all. show me a video of someone clearing a tx rift solo within less than 60 seconds with wastes CONSISTENTLY (without picking up !@#$ as that does slow any build down) and i believe you. otherwise saying ALOT FASTER is outright bull%^-* period.

the fact alone that the higher dmg does not help on tx as oneshot remains oneshot for elites alone negates wastes advantage big time here.
^No way

Wastes should be buffed to make WW more competitive.

IK should be buffed to make other builds more competitive, not just WW.

IK should be buffed with a different design intent, not so it can "compete" with Wastes for the best WW build. Wastes is the WW set, like it or not.

It'd be awesome for IK to do something else besides just damage.
ik should remain neutral as a set so it allows to do what the player wants and not what blizzard wants. thats a good thing imo.

i dont want ik to be better than wastes with ww, IF wastes would actually BECOME a true ww focused set and not some gimmick to ww where ww itself is basicly fully ignored on the setbonuses for dmg source.

there is countless ideas how this could look like and most of you know that. if that happens i am the first one to switch over to wastes i have a fully augmented wastes ancient set laying around in my stash in case that ever happens.

until then i just refuse to play what devs think is a ww set because they are wrong and need to get that point finally especially about rend. its not the first time devs are wrong about a design choice on this game as the longer d3 players here will know for sure.
06/02/2016 04:15 PMPosted by Archael
It'd be awesome for IK to do something else besides just damage.


IK is doing something else.

It makes Barbs soft and overly dependant on being in WotB. ;)
06/02/2016 03:21 PMPosted by Siladil
06/02/2016 03:15 PMPosted by Telejensen
even thou THAT build does the damage in another way.


But that is insignificant. It's not what matters in the build. Dust Devils are the key.


Let me put it this way. If IK didn't also need the Dust Devils, don't you think players would choose Bloodlust? They don't because of how important the AoE of Dust Devils is. Focusing on that importance, Wastes' does 3x the damage in terms of AoE. It then doesn't waste two useless skill slots. It also gets to choose a rune besides Dust Devil because it gets the Dust Devils for free.

I'm giving you 1 + 2 + 3 and telling you it equals 6. Then you're pulling an Enone on me and asking me why I didn't divide by 0. I feel like I am the one being trolled.
BTW...anyone else worried IK6 might be better now? Sil is defending Wastes...

03/12/2016 08:47 AMPosted by Siladil
I'm not the most skilled player.
Quite a thread here arguing over TX speed clears...

For what it's worth - overall WOTW is the stronger build of the 2 whirlwind variants. For GR pushing, this would come out on top by a few GR I would reckon. The dust devils makes a huge difference.

For TX builds - well things die so fast in TX. I have seen some IK WW builds which were decently fast so it's definitely viable. At the end of the day - it does not really matter no? It's for TX, play whatever build that prevents you from snoozing at your desk.
BTW...anyone else worried IK6 might be better now? Sil is defending Wastes...

03/12/2016 08:47 AMPosted by Siladil
I'm not the most skilled player.


I knew this was going to come back and bite me in the rear.

I meant to say I am the most skilled player but that damn phone auto-correct inserted a "not".
06/02/2016 06:45 PMPosted by DAKKON
Quite a thread here arguing over TX speed clears...

For what it's worth - overall WOTW is the stronger build of the 2 whirlwind variants. For GR pushing, this would come out on top by a few GR I would reckon. The dust devils makes a huge difference.

For TX builds - well things die so fast in TX. I have seen some IK WW builds which were decently fast so it's definitely viable. At the end of the day - it does not really matter no? It's for TX, play whatever build that prevents you from snoozing at your desk.


Well this wasn't supposed to be a "fastest TX" discussion. It's gotten sidetracked some sadly...
06/02/2016 07:09 PMPosted by Jako


Well this wasn't supposed to be a "fastest TX" discussion. It's gotten sidetracked some sadly...


Free started this discusission by making a claim wastes would be stronger and faster than ik6 anyday. I wonder if he took the challenge from Sokon...
IK6 > Wastes for TX

Best part...it's TX. You can play Jako builds, or Greg builds, or even Diehard builds and still kill a few things.

Was talking to Arch and Free last night and switched my WW over to Wastes. My IK WW was performing much better, especially on single targets. What I personally prefer about IK over Wastes is that your WW is actually doing the damage, not your DD's. Soo....you don't have to aim anything a certain way, and you can just kill things almost like a real Barbarian....with your weapons.

Bottom line is that it's WW. Barbarians aren't Ballerinas.
TX is literally who can stack the most movement speed and mobility while still one shotting everything on screen.

The nice thing for IK, perma-Zerker means movement speed and relatively no CDR requirements.

The nice thing for WW, Hurricane and Dust Devils mean everything on screen is dying without you going near them.
06/03/2016 03:02 AMPosted by Conan
Barbarians aren't Ballerinas.


Wat. Once I get my hands on the cosmic wings, I will pirouette and display them proudly, like a peacock.
06/02/2016 06:45 PMPosted by DAKKON


For what it's worth - overall WOTW is the stronger build of the 2 whirlwind variants. For GR pushing, this would come out on top by a few GR I would reckon. The dust devils makes a huge difference.


I agree with you. Can you explain this: OP says ik6 damage is 1/3 of Wastes All other ik6 damage is irrelevent Jako and Free says. If that is true, how is it possible to only be "a few gr" lower?

You see my point Jako and Free?
edit: these internets wormholes!

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