The Future of Firebird's Finery

Wizard
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If these numbers are for the start of the ptr, then isn't it likely that they can go up? Doesn't blizzard usually start from one end of a spectrum, then sling-shot to the opposite end, then meet up somewhere in the middle?
06/12/2016 12:22 AMPosted by Halfsoul
You guys have 3 sets capable of reaching way over 100 in grifts and you are still complaining. Talk about having special privileges, when none of the other classes are even near that number, with any of their sets.


You just thought it was a great idea to say this without actually looking at the boards or something? Because it sounded cool to say wizards as a whole are overpowered? Then I ask you show me where any other set besides Firebird being used with Archon is anywhere near GR100. you'll literally find 1 other, by a few select players and not 3 all over the place.

Vyr's barely cracks 90..like literally 1 guy reached it

DMO isn't even on the board

Yes Tal Rasha made it to 100, so when Firebird Archon and the exploit becomes irrelevent we'll be all using Tal Rasha because it's not only used in the 4p meta with Twister but now will become solo default with Archon. Oh but it gets better, that doesn't only wreck the top it even wrecks our speed Grifting as even non chants Firebird Archon will lose it's power and Flash Fire will die out too.

That's just fantastic, way to take the most diverse season of wizard and turn it back to 1 set rules all. Hopefully Blizzard will have the foresight to change the other sets and improve them to compensate for the Firebird change or we'll all be back to Season 3 with Tal Rasha ruling everything.

I'm sure there will be changes to the other sets, afterall we'd be talking about 2.5 and that's a major patch. My fear is the diversity being pulled back instead of going forward and Firebird taking a back seat once again would only shrink diversity.
Tal Rasha
(2) Set:
Damaging enemies with Arcane, Cold, Fire or Lightning will cause a Meteor of the same damage type to fall from the sky. Arcane causes the first enemy hit to take 100% more damage for 8 seconds. Cold freezes all enemies within 50 yards for 2.5 seconds. Fire causes all enemies hit to burn, increasing there Area Damage chance to 100%. Lightning instantly restores all Arcane Power. There is an 8 second cooldown for each damage type.
(4) Set:
Arcane, Cold, Fire, and Lightning attacks each increase all of your resistances by 25% for 20 seconds.
(6) Set:
Attacks increase your damage by 750% for 8 seconds. Arcane, Cold, Fire, and Lightning attacks each add one stack. At 4 stacks, each different elemental attack extends the duration by 2 seconds, up to a maximum of 8 seconds.

-skill cycling is now incentivized by the 2 pc, meaning the restrictions on the 4 is no longer necessary. While the majority of your damage can still come from 1 element, each element and its meteor now serves a distinct purpose, providing the multi-elemental theme that is TR

DMO
(2) Set:
Casting Arcane Orb, Energy Twister, Explosive Blast, Magic Missile, Shock Pulse, Spectral Blade, or Wave of Force reduces the cooldown of Slow Time by 2 seconds. Gain 10 Arcane Power every time you cast Slow Time.
(4) Set:
You take 30% reduced damage while you have a Slow Time active. Allies inside your Slow Time gain half benefit. Gain 10 Arcane Power every time you cast Slow Time.
(6) Set:
Enemies affected by your Slow Time take 2000% increased damage from your Arcane Orb, Energy Twister, Explosive Blast, Magic Missile, Shock Pulse, Spectral Blade, and Wave of Force abilities. The effectiveness of your Slow Time rune is increased by 100%.

-the bonus AP on the 2 and 4 pc would stack. The last part of the 6 piece greatly incentivizes using Crown of the Primus. Slow Time would then have a 9 sec CD, 50% DR, 30% damage buff,a stupid long stun, and a 20% ias buff.Maybe change Point of No Return to a 2 second stun followed by 80% slow for 2 seconds after leaving slow time, translating to a 4 second stun and 4 second slow with new 6 piece.

Vyr's
(2) Set:
Archon gains the effect of every rune.
(4) Set:
Archon stacks also increase your Attack Speed, Armor, and Resistances by 1.5%.
(6) Set:
Archon stacks now increase damage by 6%. You also gain Archon stacks when you hit with an Archon ability.

-6 pc is assuming that base Archon stacks are nerfed to 2.5%-3%. I think this is absolutely necessary since it is currently the largest multiplier for Wizards at its current 6%. I also think Archon needs a lot of change still. Ex, make the EB have a 5 second cooldown but with 3 charges. EB now does 9k weapon damage and increases damage affected enemies take by 25% for 6 seconds.

Firebird's
(2) Set:
Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take damage as Fire for 3 seconds for every 10,000 Life per Second you have. Damage is proportional to 5% of your total Life per Second, up to 4000% weapon damage.
(4) Set:
60% of all damage taken is staggered over 10 seconds and your Life per Second is doubled. If an enemy has been burning for more than 15 seconds they will Ignite, burning until they die. If an Elite is Ignited when you die, a meteor falls from the sky and revives you. This effect has a 60 second cooldown.
(6) Set:
Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of 2000%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited and your Life per Second is doubled

-provides some DR in a unique way. LpS from 4 pc and 6 pc stack. For the 2 pc, say you have 20k LpS, your DoT lasts for 6 seconds. LpS from paragon is 10,728 which means that with an Elite your DoT lasts 12 seconds (10,728*2*2=42,912). Which means you simply have to reapply the DoT after 3 seconds. It's a little tedious, but this is a major herding set anyways. To get the maximum DoT, would require 20k LpS with an Elite burning, so two rolls on top of paragon.
06/12/2016 12:54 PMPosted by MasterJay
I'm sure there will be changes to the other sets, afterall we'd be talking about 2.5 and that's a major patch. My fear is the diversity being pulled back instead of going forward and Firebird taking a back seat once again would only shrink diversity.


I see that as very optimistic. With the skeleton crew they have left working on the game I think it's much more likely we'll see 2.4.2. I hope I'm wrong.....
06/10/2016 10:44 PMPosted by DarthNihilus
06/10/2016 10:30 PMPosted by Vexille
not to mention that the 4 piece set bonus nerfs the wand of woh build using 6 tal rashas and 4 firebirds...


people still use FB+Tals ?? lol...


lol people still use wizards at all? lol
06/10/2016 05:28 PMPosted by Nevalistis
A bit of a bump, but an update I felt you all would want to see!

We've been preparing the changes for Firebird's Finery, and ultimately, we've settled on slightly redesigning the 4-piece and 6-piece bonuses. Here's how they currently read internally (though, as always, these details are subject to change):

  • (4) Set Bonus
    • Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die
  • (6) Set Bonus
    • Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of 2000%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited

As you can see, we've definitely gone the way of trying to preserve its play style while approaching it from a slightly different angle. You are still encouraged to light multiple targets on fire, and the more you light up, the more powerful you grow.

It should be noted this will impact some existing builds, like the Firebird's/Chantodo's interaction. We are definitely going to want plenty of player testing and experimentation with the revised set, so expect to see a dedicated Focused Feedback thread when we head to PTR.

We're really looking forward to see your thoughts and testing!


Please, add some defensive stats to 4-piece Firebird. Vyr has it, Tals has it, Delsere has it.

My tip for it would be adding 2.5%~3% damage resistance for each enemy ignited, up to 20 stacks. Ignited elites and RGs giving the maximum bonus, just like the 6 piece works.
Give me firebird's from like two ptrs ago, with no bugs, and that would make it competitive. Otherwise... this is pretty much just garbage.
The only way I see any builds working with three skills is if the item that makes your channeling skills also cast your other skills every second actually triggers Firebirds. Then we might see some Firebirds channeling builds, at least at lower/mid grift levels. And only if they add some defense to Firebirds, like literally every other set in the game has. Honestly, I think they just need to completely rework Firebirds completely at this point. This whole burning dot and buff for burning enemies thing just isn't working. Maybe fire skills cause enemies to burn, and that dot spreads to nearby enemies or something. You know, like real fire does?
06/12/2016 03:52 PMPosted by gambler
06/10/2016 05:28 PMPosted by Nevalistis
A bit of a bump, but an update I felt you all would want to see!

We've been preparing the changes for Firebird's Finery, and ultimately, we've settled on slightly redesigning the 4-piece and 6-piece bonuses. Here's how they currently read internally (though, as always, these details are subject to change):

  • (4) Set Bonus
    • Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die
  • (6) Set Bonus
    • Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of 2000%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited

As you can see, we've definitely gone the way of trying to preserve its play style while approaching it from a slightly different angle. You are still encouraged to light multiple targets on fire, and the more you light up, the more powerful you grow.

It should be noted this will impact some existing builds, like the Firebird's/Chantodo's interaction. We are definitely going to want plenty of player testing and experimentation with the revised set, so expect to see a dedicated Focused Feedback thread when we head to PTR.

We're really looking forward to see your thoughts and testing!


Please, add some defensive stats to 4-piece Firebird. Vyr has it, Tals has it, Delsere has it.

My tip for it would be adding 2.5%~3% damage resistance for each enemy ignited, up to 20 stacks. Ignited elites and RGs giving the maximum bonus, just like the 6 piece works.


I was thinking of this as well, but thinking about it further wiz needs the damage reduction when there isnt density.. when there is density we have APDs + halo to keep us alive, without that we just get one shot everywhere

but i guess there has to be challenge somewhere so I still like that idea
To the Devs:

Look, the basic mechanic of the set (apply several limited duration DoTs to enemy ---> permanent DoT on enemy) just isn't fun. Then, the second mechanic of (multiple permanent DoTs ----> buffs damage) is implemented poorly. The theme of "burning things" and "being the phoenix" isn't the issue, it's the implementation that's not fun.

The DoT effect should probably just not be permanent, but allowed to stack (either scaling with attack speed or with a fixed ICD, preferably attack speed though—would be a stat focus that would beat out CHC/CHD) and the damage buff should be based on the highest number of stacks on a single enemy. Scales well regardless of density or regular mobs/elites, damage ramps up over time with burning DoTs (but is ultimately limited by attack speed, so doesn't scale infinitely—probably should have hard cap though), buffs damage based on amount of DoTs.

This still doesn't solve the problem of not having a defensive component—cheat death revive is a poor substitute. The build desperately needs DR of some sort; Halo of Arlyse/Karini feel really out of place with a fire-theme build.
06/10/2016 05:28 PMPosted by Nevalistis
(4) Set Bonus
Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die

I would like to ask couple of questions :-

1) Should the 1st, 2nd & 3rd skills be entirely different or can I use two skills alternatively?

2) Should the 2nd & 3rd different skills be Fire Damage or can it be other elemental type?

3) Should the 2nd & 3rd different skills be self casting or can it be proc'ed by
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/etched-sigil

Forgive me if these questions are too silly or asked before :)
I don't see what is the issue with this guys.... use ice armor for defence, partheon defenders or strongarms?, use the meteor weapon with the meteor rune and helm, use explosive blast, use black hole- fire rune should be able to do a fair amount of damage you will have to be in the middle of everything and always using explosive blast, always calling down meteors, and always casting black hole. I don't know where your going to get your arcane power back though haven't got that far.

might be able to use the combustion passive
(i know its added damage and not multiplied)
06/12/2016 12:21 PMPosted by RupertMurdok
Does anyone else miss season 1 Firebird? I would much prefer it just go back to how it was back then (update the numbers though of course to be viable). I am talking about how it used to be, Blizzard - Apocalypse, Black Hole - Blazar, Hydra, pull and kite entire screens, let DoT do work.


To each his (or her) own I guess, but I hated the first iteration of Firebird. Running around like a headless chicken as I wasn't doing any damage, but I was waiting for my Hydra's to do damage / the dot to finish off monsters.

Sigh, that stupid 3 skills method they're introducing now (and I'm afraid I have little doubt that it will go live with that) means that channelling is out of the picture basically as well so channelling is once again dead.
I wouldn't mind if it was 2 spells instead of 3,
Also, more questions:

When another skill is used, does it reset the duration? Does using the same spell twice in a row reset the duration of the burn, i.e. if you use Fire Hydra, does every hit of it reset the duration of the 1k% damage burn?

If not, wizards have to use 3 fire skills in 3 seconds, or 1 spell per second to ignite an enemy. Best case scenario, you have 9 seconds to use 3 fire skills.

Honestly, I think the best redesign would be something along these lines:

2pc - Whenever you deal fire damage, gain a protective fire shield that absorbs 4% of your life for 3 seconds and reduces enemy damage by 25% and enemy attack speed by 25% within 50 yards. Additionally, upon death you will be revived by a meteor that deals X% of your max life in damage.

4pc - Every time you deal fire damage to enemy, they receive a debuff that burns them for 1k% fire damage for 3 seconds. This debuff stacks [would show on the buff bar to keep track of how many burn stacks you have going].

6pc - Upon inflicting Y amount of burns [on a single enemy? multiple? combined?], you become the incarnation of a phoenix for Z seconds [this would show up as a buff on the buff bar]. While under this buff, all Arcane skills deal fire damage, your damage is increased by A%, and your burning aura effects are doubled. Additionally, upon the end of phoenix mode, you're restored to full health and damage surrounding enemies for X% of your max life in damage.

A legendary ring should be added that has the effect "If you have an active shield, gain B-C% ranged damage reduction for 3 seconds after dealing fire damage." The basic idea is that your shields burn so hot as to reduce all incoming enemy projectiles. The ring (or amulet, maybe) would synergize well with the 2pc Firebird's bonus and Blood Bracers, hopefully replacing APD.

The redesigned set would give a decent defensive bonus with the 2pc, damage increase with the 4pc, and a massive boost with the 6pc. The defensive bonus of the 2pc would further be bolstered by the supporting legendary ring. Finally, the 6pc bonus would encourage skill diversity. Should it work with Archon mode? Maybe, maybe not—it might be too powerful with Vyr's two piece.
This kind of kills firebird channeling builds (which I'm having a lot of fun with this season). Even if the 2 piece interacts with etched sigil, you don't really have room for 3 spenders (and definitely not 3 fire spenders). If it doesn't interact with etched sigil then I don't see how the builds would even function considering how much time you lose not channeling your main nuke.
A bit of a bump, but an update I felt you all would want to see!

  • (4) Set Bonus
    • Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die
  • (6) Set Bonus
    • Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of 2000%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited

As you can see, we've definitely gone the way of trying to preserve its play style while approaching it from a slightly different angle. You are still encouraged to light multiple targets on fire, and the more you light up, the more powerful you grow.


Are you serious??
That is - BY FAR - the worst idea I´ve ever read concerning a set.
It renders the set completely useless!
Why on EARTH would you change the existing set instead of simply fixing the "burn forever" bug?!
If those changes go live like this I will salvage my firebird gear and make room for more Tal Rashas.

This proves once again that apparently no one at Blizzard plays diablo3. You have NO IDEA how to play this game. Stop messing around with gear that takes so much time to farm (ancient gear).

Leave the set like it is - it feels good with archon! Fix the bug instead!
they are changing it because the fact is, the mechanics of the set is broken.

using a proc to proc the firebird is not really fun. the fact that the set designed for archon isn't the one used to play with the Archon ability is not really fun. the changes that are being implemented are a good change in the thematic sense - using a fire *skill* rather than dealing fire *damage* should be the whole point of this set.

fact of the matter is, they need to take all the sets and see how they could bring them up all to the same level as TR.

playing Firebird Archon is annoying, isn't that rewarding for a playstyle and to be honest, just using a broken mechanic of the Chantodo set bonus. that's the only reason why people are playing it.
oh such a bad idea.... my goodness

2pc should be something like this:-

1. dealing fire damage will ignite the enemy (no matter how many damages it takes, it will ignite it), dealing 1000% weapon damage per second for 30 seconds (area of effect up to 500 yards)

4pc should be something like this:-

whenever an enemy within 500 yards are ignited, damage reduction by 15% up to a maximum of 60% [4 enemies burining] or 1 elite,rare,boss buring reduction of 30%.

6pc should be something like this:-

each enemy ignite within 500 yards will increase damage by 100%, up to a maximum of 2,000%. For elite,rare,boss within 500 yards that are ignited, it will immediately gain the maxiumum of 2,000% (certain skills gain this bonus: Blizzard (apolopaylse); Wave of force, Arcane Torent, Disintergrate, fire orb, etc.); Archon does not get this bonus

Yes, it should be 500 yards because having NEARBY or 1 screen only sucks. Nobody will use the set anymore.

Or maybe have some legendaries that can work closely with this set as further bonuses.
Why do they persist with a boring gameplay mechanic such the Firebird sets...

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