The Future of Firebird's Finery

Wizard
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In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


I will say the idea of ignited enemies offering DR was a cool one, as well as my own ideas of Frost Nova and Teleport getting Fire runes so there will be actual skill variation to be had. But it's not creativity. Some of us posting here literally play Wizard and only Wizard, and we call tell at a glance if a set will be successful or not. As of right now, Firebirds is dead.

Also, I am willing to bet the main problems with the set - damage reduction and skill variation will not be addressed when the PTR ends.
Are other sets than Firebird´s Finery being reviewed, like i.e. Wrath of The Wastes or Jade, or is this PTR phase only for wizards? Thank you.
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


I do panic.
I haven't seen any changes to barb sets in the upcoming Diablo Patch 2.4.2a PTR (except a new 2hander for seismic slam with earthquake interaction)

Barb dps has been not viable since 6 seasons and not been meta in grp play. I am sick of support barb.

Since this is offtopic I won't elaborate it further. But I just want to let you know.
If there are not some serious barb buffs in this ptr I will create 1 last forum post where I mathematically proof how much barbs need to be buffed to be >at least< on par with a twister wizard (since its the current meta since 2 patches now)

however

you should trust your community for once
and put this firebirdy's set at a 4000% dmg multiplier on the 6p set to even make it considerably competetive with the tal rasha set.

right now with 2k there is no way on earth its going to be viable or competetive with tal rasha in any way. not even for speedfarming (torment 10-13 or lower greater rifts ~60-70 ) since you need to build up your damage around elites meanwhile tal rasha offers its full dmg bonus basically permanently.

I am not lying.
You can test it out yourself internally. Its just a fact. buffing this set now already would save you and your community time.

Because I can predict if nothing happens, the community will spam these PTR feedback forums that the "new" firebirdy's set will underperform in its damage potential and your survivability since 1 more proc on the 2 piece set bonus will not prevent you from being killed shortly after since you take tremendous amounts of damage which in most cases is being 1-shot by white monsters or a simple melee attack from any monster.

suggestion? Since you already make us fill up 50% of our bar with fire skills why not give the 2p set bonus another dmg reduce for like "each different fire skill you use reduces your damage takenfor 20% for 10 seconds." then it would actually make sense to use your skills after you built up your 3k dmg dot.

its a simple and working Idea that follows your rule "no power without gameplay"

Otherwise you will just wipe this set (it is pretty much this) . And I bet you don't want that after all that time and effort you spent into re-designing it
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


You can change the way you want the set. People will find a build and play. The biggest problem here is not to do anything with people who intentionally used the build to abuse of the exploit. People who took all their paragon, reforge your set to have only life without any damage and used the exploit. This for me is a problem. It is a problem that has people who intentionally use it and not be punished.
06/13/2016 05:52 PMPosted by FruitJuice
You can change the way you want the set. People will find a build and play. The biggest problem here is not to do anything with people who intentionally used the build to abuse of the exploit. People who took all their paragon, reforge your set to have only life without any damage and used the exploit. This for me is a problem. It is a problem that has people who intentionally use it and not be punished.


Then you really have a problem don't you? Since Blizz said the bug can be used with impunity, they are not going to change their mind and punish people just because you want them to...
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


How many large and informative feedback threads were blatantly ignored by the Diablo III team last PTR? How many times do we need to tell you that something is weak and useless before you change it? People are in a panic because history shows us that the Diablo team either does not listen to great feedback, or does not work fast enough to implement any of the suggested feedback.

I'll give you one example of the many I could think of. Last season there were two highly competitive builds for Demon Hunters; The Legacy of Nightmares Fan of Knives build and a Natalya's build. The last PTR which lead into this season, you buffed Lord Greenstone's fan by double and then proceeded to buff Natalya's by a mere 25%. Because of that, one of our TWO viable builds for high end pushing was effectively rendered obsolete and we were left with one build to push with this season.

How does something like that happen? How does the Diablo team look at the leaderboards, and buff the top build that was already being used by nearly the entire leaderboard by double, and then buff the less competitive build by 25%. It's a comedy of errors and lack of knowledge about the game and the current situation.

How many iterations of uselessness must builds and sets go through before they are brought up to par? The Shadow's mantle with Impale was reworked for season 5 and is still useless today in season 6. Will it continue being useless in season 7? Will I ever get to play it in a group or for pushing onto the leaderboards? Something needs to change cause it's getting really old playing a single build for multiple seasons because nobody is doing their job balancing.
Salvaging my Firebirds.
With the recent news on firebird revamp. I would like to offer some suggestion to te set.

4 pc bonus
Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire and deal 15% decreased damage for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die

6 pc bonus
Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of 2000%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited

Support item
New bracer: Every enemy with hit by meteor reduce cooldown of meteor by 1 second (also affect meteor summoned by firebird set)

The grand vizier: Reduces the Arcane Power cost, cooldown and increase the damage of Meteor by 40–50%. (no longer roll with skill damage)

Atrophy: Blizzard - Apocalypse also summons Meteor shower onto enemies.


With the above item, the Meteor Shower can used with the new bracer to refresh the cooldown of meteor and effectively create a build that can spam Molten impact. The gameplay would be spam Apocalypse for trash mobs and when the enemies is group up hit with Molten impact and hope so as to reset the cooldown of Molten impact. This fit well with firebird game play as firebird is about grouping mobs up and burn them to death. The cooldown bracer can also enable suicide build, in which one would kit for a pack and them let them kill you and unleash tonnes of meteor appoint them (it have to be over 30 enemies in the pack otherwise it will not reset the meteor from firebird set.)

The ancient Bonesaber of zumakalis: Magic weapon gain the effect of Ignite and is also applied to your allies. Ignite now cause all fire attack to cause up to 3 enemies to explode, dealing 400% weapon damage as Fire to enemies within 10 yards.

This will allow support build for wizard. Also it will change the meta of 1 + 3 zpds greater rift build. As now other player could also deal damage which scale with the main dps, wizard, damage.

Deathwish: While channeling Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, or Ray of Frost, all damage is increased by 40–45%.

Mantle of Channeling: While channeling Whirlwind, Rapid Fire, Strafe, Tempest Rush, Firebats, Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, or Ray of Frost, you deal 30–35% increased damage and take 40% reduced damage.

Hergbrash’s Binding: Reduces the Arcane Power cost and increase the damage of Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, and Ray of Frost by 50–65%.


This will enable a channel skill based firebird build.
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


If only the same kind of attention could be paid to previous PTR feedback...
06/13/2016 05:52 PMPosted by FruitJuice
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


You can change the way you want the set. People will find a build and play. The biggest problem here is not to do anything with people who intentionally used the build to abuse of the exploit. People who took all their paragon, reforge your set to have only life without any damage and used the exploit. This for me is a problem. It is a problem that has people who intentionally use it and not be punished.


It is a mechanic offered by Blizzard and they decided not to do anything about it in season 6. You cannot punish people for using ingame mechanics. These people are not hacking and such. My god! Some people.... sigh
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


The most important IMO is that you find a way to add damage reduction into the Firebird set. Without the damage reduction high greater rifts will be impossible. Please take that into concideration.
06/13/2016 11:40 PMPosted by Motions
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


The most important IMO is that you find a way to add damage reduction into the Firebird set. Without the damage reduction high greater rifts will be impossible. Please take that into concideration.


Firebirds is !@#$ed in 3 different ways. No damage, no survivability, and no skill variation. Right now, it's Flame Ward,Teleport, Hydra. (or maybe Meteor.) and an armor spell.

No exceptions. I don't think it could be built any other way realistically. You need to use Compass/Travellers for the DR, so F/R is off the table.

The only fire spells to make up the last stack are Ignite, Archon: Combusition, and Blizzard; Apocalypse. Blizzard is probably out due to AP constraints, and Archon; Combustion strikes me as clumsy, but possible. Ignite does a ton of damage, but it proc coefficient based. That's the three possible combinations, with the BEST choice probably being Combustion. The last slot would be FW:Deflection. No two ways around it, really. Too squishy otherwise.
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.


You're confusing panic with despairation because of:

06/13/2016 06:33 PMPosted by Spagetto
How many large and informative feedback threads were blatantly ignored by the Diablo III team last PTR?


Besides, how many times have we seen the mechanics of a set being changed in a PTR? Afaik that's a grand total of zero. The PTR is for numbers tweaking, not changing set mechanics which basically means that yes you can, and should, buff some numbers (also finally build in some DR), but as far as mechanics go this is pretty much set in stone which means you have effectively killed a couple of our best builds.
Firebirds is generally bad, only chantodos and the bug made it good.

The play isn't smooth to play and feels clucky, honestly like a lot of the wizard stuff it feels like you forcing the mechanic.

Original firebirds wasn't "fun" new firebirds doesn't sound "fun" current firebirds "fun" due to bugs.

Hence start again and get rid of the stupid mechanics, my example which obviously would need to be balanced below. Something like this just allows you to "play your way" and opens up the set to be used with many different items, purposely leaving the DR on the 6 piece bonus to be used for high level content.

2 Piece:

All %Elemental DMG bonus converted to Fire and Gain +50% DMG for each % of Elemental Fire DMG max 4000%

4 Piece:

Gain Cool down reduction equal to 50% of your total % elemental DMG bonus and All attack DMG converted to Fire

6 Piece:

Gain DMG reduction equal to your %elemental fire DMG bonus Max 60% and all critical hits cause targets blood to boil erupting for a second area DMG activation chance

Would appreciate some feedback :)
Just make a Monk :)
I just realized that having DR connected to FB stacks is exactly like LoN set bonus..

Maybe instead of having DR incorporated into the set, just have ignited enemies deal less damage, upto a cap.
06/14/2016 04:20 AMPosted by Cakes
Would appreciate some feedback :)


Sucks.

Big damage boost on 2-piece. OK, thank you, TR6/FB2, I don't even need to read the rest. 4-piece is nice for some CD-heavy builds but why bother, I already have gazillion dps. 6p is some irrelevant DR (see last sentence) and some irrelevant proc (see last sentence again).

06/13/2016 06:33 PMPosted by Spagetto
How many large and informative feedback threads were blatantly ignored by the Diablo III team last PTR?


You're confusing wild "designs" like the one above with informative feedback.
Informative thread, pretty much all of them...

Well anything would be better than the way it is

Maybe give 1250 dmg per 2 pieces tied to elemental stat, I didn't say it was balanced..

Basically all the best builds flow and are mostly easy to play and not overly clicky to the point where I need to macro button spamming to make it work correctly.
"Best" is subjective. I, for one, find "one-click" builds really boring. I prefer to have a more complex mechanic that actually requires you to do something and rewards you accordingly. The spammy Flashfire is one of the best builds I've played recently. See how subjective "best" is?

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