The Future of Firebird's Finery

Wizard
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So, by "Redesign the firebird set mechanics" you mean, not redesign them at all but simply changing the DoT trigger to a version that is much easier to program but has the side effect of destroying channeling builds, archon builds, and Tal6/FB4 builds?
^

Anything they can do to remove the "hidden" mechanic.
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.


Prefect advice I was about to throw in the towel but did an 80 last night, my new high. So dent panic augment more but in the end it might also take more than one stiff drink?
06/10/2016 05:28 PMPosted by Nevalistis
A bit of a bump, but an update I felt you all would want to see!

We've been preparing the changes for Firebird's Finery, and ultimately, we've settled on slightly redesigning the 4-piece and 6-piece bonuses. Here's how they currently read internally (though, as always, these details are subject to change):

  • (4) Set Bonus
    • Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die
  • (6) Set Bonus
    • Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of 2000%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited

As you can see, we've definitely gone the way of trying to preserve its play style while approaching it from a slightly different angle. You are still encouraged to light multiple targets on fire, and the more you light up, the more powerful you grow.

It should be noted this will impact some existing builds, like the Firebird's/Chantodo's interaction. We are definitely going to want plenty of player testing and experimentation with the revised set, so expect to see a dedicated Focused Feedback thread when we head to PTR.

We're really looking forward to see your thoughts and testing!


Why make this set's damage bonus design...so complex? I can't think of any other set in this game that is as weird as FB. Dragging around a burning elite to keep the max stacks how on earth did that ever make it out of the discussion stage let alone implemented into the game?

I have never liked FB the original gameplay was about the most boring in D3, it's a lot better from that aspect now so that's an improvement.

I haven't tried using the 'bugged FB' set-up yet I watched a video of the gameplay and was laughing my butt off..."ignite blue but don't kill it...look for mobs try and keep archon up as much as possible don't kill the Champion etc...etc..this whole issue speaks to the failed design the mechanics are so complicated yet another glitch got through even if Blizzard is not taking any action which is only fair considering they are responsible for this it should have been fixed in the last PTR.

Firebird needs a complete rethink make it the wizard "pet build' and let Vyr's archon be the primary solo set for wizards (Vyr's also needs a complete overhaul I don't know anyone who likes playing it the worst play-style in the game now for my money.)

I get that the team is working with bare minimum resources trying to incorporate the original graphics/DOT's etc but there comes a time when you need to move forward and realize the original design was bad to begin with.

Not that I expect anything to happen, this game is headed for maintenance soon anyway from what I've seen of all the in house transfers/personnel changes.
06/13/2016 11:38 PMPosted by Motions
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You can change the way you want the set. People will find a build and play. The biggest problem here is not to do anything with people who intentionally used the build to abuse of the exploit. People who took all their paragon, reforge your set to have only life without any damage and used the exploit. This for me is a problem. It is a problem that has people who intentionally use it and not be punished.


It is a mechanic offered by Blizzard and they decided not to do anything about it in season 6. You cannot punish people for using ingame mechanics. These people are not hacking and such. My god! Some people.... sigh


The Hellfire exploit was a mechanic offered by Blizzard and people were punished. The Goblin Shard too. I know it's a mechanic that is set, but no one playing can usually use this "mechanics", the set works as supposed to work. Now has other going out and abuse that mechanics to make it work in a way that was not expected, but there is in the game.

If something is permitted, so why Blizzard deleted topics explaining how it worked and how to make the "mechanics"?
06/14/2016 07:18 AMPosted by LordGrendel
Why make this set's damage bonus design...so complex? I can't think of any other set in this game that is as weird as FB. Dragging around a burning elite to keep the max stacks how on earth did that ever make it out of the discussion stage let alone implemented into the game?


Agree. This is one of the core issues with the set. Unnecessarily complex. Having two dots adds nothing flavorful (mobs burning one way, then burning another), you can't tell what/when they switch except by looking at your buff bar, one drops over time, the other by moving out of range.

One or the other dot needs to go.
Please consider redesigning it so that it includes some sort of damage reduction. Please make sure every set has access to some sort of damage reduction in the set it self, not just supporting legendaries.
The dropping of the dots is too much to have to deal with this re-apply crap. We all know they don't burn until dead, it's burn until you move a screen away to pull mobs and there's none to be had.

This is a really unnecessary change and requiring 3 fire skills on the bar is unthinkable after you factor in an armor spell and teleport.

There's just so little synergy with fire spells and legendary items. No item to buff blizzard, no item to buff black hole, no item to buff severely buff hydras enough to make it competitive, serpents sparker just doesn't cut it with the damage we deal now.

As of right now, there are multitudes of other Wizards build that will blow Firebirds out of the water next patch as is it stands pre-PTR standard. I understand it's liable to change, but TalRasha Twisters, Cold Vyrs, Tal-ET-Archon all can outclass Firebirds next patch if Archon is nerfed due to how these new dots and the reduced 60 stacks to 50 stacks.

We'll see how it goes, but I'm not hopeful about firebirds this time around.
06/14/2016 07:33 AMPosted by FruitJuice
If something is permitted, so why Blizzard deleted topics explaining how it worked and how to make the "mechanics"?


05/25/2016 02:40 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, what does that mean for Season 6? There are a lot of players who have pushed hard and reached high ranks with these unintended bugs. However, we don’t want to punish players for working within the parameters given to them. To that end, the current functionality will remain intact for the duration of Season 6. Once these bugs have been resolved, you can expect that the power level of Firebird’s will be much more in line with other sets.


Posted by Nevalistis
05/25/2016 03:00 PMPosted by Skerzy
Is this to say there won't be punishment for people intentionally abusing these bugs?

Nope. We will not be taking action on accounts for this.


I realize English is not your first language but can you read the quoted blue posts here? Oh and if you go to Dfans you can find plenty of posts about how the "mechanics" work.
I personally think that after reviving we should get some sort of damage reduction buff for a few seconds, perhaps 95% damage reduction for 3 seconds. I usually find myself double proccing instantly if I die once.
At first, sorry for my bad english.... but is this an joke with the firebird set on ptr.
i test it last night, after ptr was released.

on regular server season 6 i run with normal firebird mage grift 60 in a good time, but now??
t XIII = gr 60 > the normal firebird makes no more damage.... in stats you buff the damage but in real you nerv it hard...

the enemys wont burn and so your stats push wont work....

so pelase blizzard rework the firebird set to normal !@#$tion... or say it official that the firebird mage is rip!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well there goes my EB FireRasha build or my non geom if you will.This is going to be one sad day for me.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

It is a mechanic offered by Blizzard and they decided not to do anything about it in season 6. You cannot punish people for using ingame mechanics. These people are not hacking and such. My god! Some people.... sigh


The Hellfire exploit was a mechanic offered by Blizzard and people were punished. The Goblin Shard too. I know it's a mechanic that is set, but no one playing can usually use this "mechanics", the set works as supposed to work. Now has other going out and abuse that mechanics to make it work in a way that was not expected, but there is in the game.

If something is permitted, so why Blizzard deleted topics explaining how it worked and how to make the "mechanics"?


The things you mention are bugs. The firebird set is not. It is a smart way of using the firebird set. The Devs however never thought about it this way. There is the difference you are looking for.
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


You mean, there´s a chance, that you will mess it up even more?
Oh my word.

Sorry for my sarcasm but to be very honest, even the suggested changes show clearly that you are obviously only experimenting with a random idea. The firebird´s set is actually at a quite good place right now, only the exploit ruins the set. You should focus on solving THIS problem instead of ruining the whole set for the 99% honest players.
06/15/2016 03:24 AMPosted by IamLoco
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.

This is just the first pass on Firebird's Finery (here forth known as Firebirdy's Finery because I CAN'T STOP MAKING THAT TYPO WHYYYY) for the next PTR. We're not done yet. Heck, we haven't even started! First passes are rarely ever final ones.

We totally get the concern. It’s easy to jump to conclusions when this is all the info you have to operate off of. I see some reasonable feedback in here and we are taking notes, a process which we’ll be keeping up throughout the whole of PTR. This is just the first pass. You guys constantly astound us with your creativity, and that's exactly what we hope to see during this PTR phase.

The Feedback Forum will be opening up when the PTR becomes available, and I'm really looking forward to delving into it and running a few tests of my own.


You mean, there´s a chance, that you will mess it up even more?
Oh my word.

Sorry for my sarcasm but to be very honest, even the suggested changes show clearly that you are obviously only experimenting with a random idea. The firebird´s set is actually at a quite good place right now, only the exploit ruins the set. You should focus on solving THIS problem instead of ruining the whole set for the 99% honest players.


And this is what I find very disturbing, if there is a bug fix it. When every other class has a bug they fix it, yet for us they have to redesign things around. Someone at blizzard either hates wizards or loves juggling. We already have a crappy juggling set (tal rasha) which has thankfully been better since it now re-stacks easier. Firebird in its current design is a complete failure it's far to complex and still a DOT.

The reason the set continues to suck is because of over thinking. It really should be very simple just like all the other class sets, why does the wizard in D3 have to be the only class with extremely complex sets? Why?

This is how firebird should have been re-designed.

Firebird

2 piece set
When you die, a meteor falls from the sky and revives you. This effect has a 60 second cooldown.

4 piece set
Dealing Fire damage causes the enemy to take the same amount of damage over 3 seconds, stacking up to 2000% weapon damage as Fire per second. After reaching 2000% damage per second the enemy will Ignite, burning until they die. [off screen too, but only on the same rift level]
Burning enemies deal 40% less damage.

6 piece set
Fire damage deals 2800% extra damage to all enemies.


That's all you had to do, make it as simple as possible and allow your damage to work on all enemies. Over thinking things is the number 1 cause for a sets bad design. Oh well I already know this idea will go on def ears. I'm officially 100% done with the game if firebird goes live the way it is on the ptr. I never even played the set with the huge by;however this change kills my only enjoyable build (woh). The wizard class has been playing the juggling wizard for so long another set makes me feel like someone really hates our class and wants to force us into a circus act. No thank you.
06/14/2016 07:33 AMPosted by FruitJuice
If something is permitted, so why Blizzard deleted topics explaining how it worked and how to make the "mechanics"?


05/25/2016 02:40 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, what does that mean for Season 6? There are a lot of players who have pushed hard and reached high ranks with these unintended bugs. However, we don’t want to punish players for working within the parameters given to them. To that end, the current functionality will remain intact for the duration of Season 6. Once these bugs have been resolved, you can expect that the power level of Firebird’s will be much more in line with other sets.


Posted by Nevalistis
05/25/2016 03:00 PMPosted by Skerzy
Is this to say there won't be punishment for people intentionally abusing these bugs?

Nope. We will not be taking action on accounts for this.


I realize English is not your first language but can you read the quoted blue posts here? Oh and if you go to Dfans you can find plenty of posts about how the "mechanics" work.


I know in Dfans are explanations. But that does not answer my question yet. If it is "allowed", why delete the topics?
06/15/2016 07:30 AMPosted by FruitJuice
I know in Dfans are explanations. But that does not answer my question yet. If it is "allowed", why delete the topics?


Really why does it matter? And there are lots of explanations of this build right here in the Wizard Forums. Sorry but I don't get your point.
Look, Blizzard. You're getting this all wrong from the start. By tweaking the parameters of Firebird set and for the god-knows X number of times, you're just making the gameplay so not fun and just so troublesome to use!

I'm speaking mainly for the casuals, mature gamers who just wanna have some simple fun with their favorite character here. Forget all the numbers and details for once. Just think about how we play the builds with the set. Main point is:"You have to do so much just to get this damage for the pathetic few seconds".

Even though I'm happy Wizard finally gets some love and is now a favorite and meta game for pros out there or DPS-chasers, i think the playstyle is a piece of crap. Think about these:-

1) Sets wise, what is VYR for? Ain't it supposed to be The Set for Archon? Why the heck are people using Firebirds to do Archon instead?

2) The cool down length is ridiculously long - you still need to hang in there for like 10seconds being a molten meat ball before being able to morph back into Archon mode.

3) Morphing into Archon is just the beginning - you need to kill so many in order to reach a satisfactory powerful state, and by then your Archon dies off and you become helpless molten sandbag again.

4) Firebirds is so troublesome to use - you need to ignite as many mobs as you can, and best damage is when you ignite an Elite and have it follow you while you fry other mobs.

5) VYR? Hardly anybody uses full 6 set anymore and it's become a joke and only keen in taking up the 2-piece chicken meal.

And aside the above, Wizards have so many other skills but they're so under-utilized! You end up making 3 sets that people use 1 main skill for. It's a total failure concept, please wake up!
06/15/2016 09:25 AMPosted by evok
06/15/2016 07:30 AMPosted by FruitJuice
I know in Dfans are explanations. But that does not answer my question yet. If it is "allowed", why delete the topics?


Really why does it matter? And there are lots of explanations of this build right here in the Wizard Forums. Sorry but I don't get your point.


The point is that if something is allowed, which operates within the mechanics, why hide / delete topics of how it works on the official forum? Shame?
06/15/2016 05:00 PMPosted by FruitJuice
06/15/2016 09:25 AMPosted by evok
...

Really why does it matter? And there are lots of explanations of this build right here in the Wizard Forums. Sorry but I don't get your point.


The point is that if something is allowed, which operates within the mechanics, why hide / delete topics of how it works on the official forum? Shame?


Did you ever consider that since it was such a heated topic in the beginning, the threads were deleted due to posts getting too off topic and or out of control?

There are several in depth guides to how to use the build in this very forum. They have been here for a while and have not been deleted. Shame has nothing to do with it.

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