The Future of Firebird's Finery

Wizard
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06/15/2016 05:35 PMPosted by NBK
06/15/2016 05:00 PMPosted by FruitJuice
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The point is that if something is allowed, which operates within the mechanics, why hide / delete topics of how it works on the official forum? Shame?


Did you ever consider that since it was such a heated topic in the beginning, the threads were deleted due to posts getting too off topic and or out of control?

There are several in depth guides to how to use the build in this very forum. They have been here for a while and have not been deleted. Shame has nothing to do with it.


This! Try as you may your logic is not working.....
06/13/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Nevalistis
In the words of a wise man, Don’t Panic.


How can we not panic? We don't see any changes to the hugely overpowered/overbugged Twisted Sword and its stack-in-a-corner gameplay, while you are nerfing the only other set that even comes close to competing with it.

I can't stand another season/era stacking twisters in corners...
OMG DO NOT Do what your planning with the firebird 4 piece. Say GOODBYE TO yet another awesome duel set build. FireRasha is what im using since del-rasha was axed, and now your killing that too!!! WTF???? Before this it was Delrasha that u killed. Now looks like Firerasha is getting the axe too and its by NO MEANS a top tier build but i LOVE IT and its all i use!!! Leave the 4 piece ALONE!!! Completely redesign the 2 piece and the HORRIBLE 6 Piece PLEASE!!!!! GOD SAKES!
Without Chantodos the new Firebird plays good in my opinion. MW-Ignite, AT-Flame Ward and EB-Chain Reaction are my fire skills to get the ignite.

http://i.imgur.com/fp9h1fy.jpg
The servers are down currently I think but nonetheless i got a chance to play with the new firebirds set on the PTR. I may not of been very optimistic about the new set but i changed my mind and gave it a shot despite what it sounded like. One thing that stood out to me the most was the damage and the burn effect. The burn damage you get from the 4 piece is kind of dumb. I found it hard to get all of the mobs burning with the 3 stack effect you get from casting 3 spells. If theres going to be a stack of 3 then there needs to an icon at the bottom that tells you so you can keep track. At the same time, that would be pointless due to how it works. Which lead me to think of this...

(4) piece bonus:
Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills gives you a stack of empowerment. Each stack causes your skills to burn enemies for 1000% weapon damage as fire over a course of 2 seconds, If your stacks of empowerment were to reach 3000% weapon damage as fire, all enemies you attack burn for 3000% weapon damage as fire until they die. Each stack adds 2 secs on to the duration..At 3 stacks, casting different types of fire spells adds 2 seconds to the duration, stacking up to 6 seconds.

Something like the 6 piece set bonus from Tal Rasha. The current PTR 4 piece set bonus is kind of terrible. The firebirds 6 piece set bonus should also be increased because 2000% isn't really all that much. I feel like it should kind of go back to the way it was as far as the 6 piece bonus goes.
06/17/2016 05:11 PMPosted by AstralBlood
(4) piece bonus:
Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills gives you a stack of empowerment. Each stack causes your skills to burn enemies for 1000% weapon damage as fire over a course of 2 seconds, If your stacks of empowerment were to reach 3000% weapon damage as fire, all enemies you attack burn for 3000% weapon damage as fire until they die. Each stack adds 2 secs on to the duration..At 3 stacks, casting different types of fire spells adds 2 seconds to the duration, stacking up to 6 seconds.

Something like the 6 piece set bonus from Tal Rasha. The current PTR 4 piece set bonus is kind of terrible. The firebirds 6 piece set bonus should also be increased because 2000% isn't really all that much. I feel like it should kind of go back to the way it was as far as the 6 piece bonus goes.


Just no.

Can't we for once get a set that doesn't require us to either stack damage by making us jump through hoops (DMO/Tal) or stack damage by attacking/killing monsters (FB/VYR).

Like you said, this would be just like the Tal set and I don't see a need for junior version of it.
Firebird's theme was all about damage over time. Nowadays the DoT is secundary to the big 6 pieces damage bonus. The permanent burning effect is there just so the game can count how many enemies are ignited for the damage buff. Add some base %damage buff to the 6 pieces because it has to be instantly better than 4 pieces, but have something more interesting than "use X, gain Y%damage".

Maybe there could be something similar to Bane of the Stricken. You ignite the mob for permanent DoT with 4pcs and have to keep hitting it to increase DoT with 6 pieces.
06/18/2016 12:26 AMPosted by Sardaukar
Just no.

Can't we for once get a set that doesn't require us to either stack damage by making us jump through hoops (DMO/Tal) or stack damage by attacking/killing monsters (FB/VYR).

Like you said, this would be just like the Tal set and I don't see a need for junior version of it.


Oh Im completely with you on that but I doubt thats going to happen. I'm just trying to make the set easier to use because right now its a big pain. Currently in PTR, the set is complete garbage. Still with all the nerfs, the Firebirds Archon build is still better. Have you tried it out? I've spent quite a bit of time trying to make a buyable build other than Firebirds Archon but i just haven't found one. Its really hard to get all of the enemies to burn. The fastest way is to use Blizzard - Apocalypse, Arcane Torrent - Flame ward, Black Hole - Blazar. Ive been considering using Wave of Force - Heat Wave too. The stack effect wouldn't be a knock off Tal Rasha set either because the stack only applies to burn while Tal Rasha only applies to the over Damage. The fact that you cant tell whether or not all of the enemies in the mob are burning correctly or not makes the set a pain to use. Especially with Archon. That 2000% dmg is crap and theres no way to do a good amount of dmg unless you use Archon. Honestly I think my suggestion is far better than the current 4 piece bonus. I dont like the nerf but I'm open to change. If my suggestion isn't good for you, what exactly would you do to it? Other than switching it back to the way it was because we all know that isn't going to happen.
Firebird should be reverted to the way it works on live with at least 2 change:

1) minimum number of hits required to ignite = 1 (instead of 2).
2) 50 firebird stacks from ignited champion monster falls off correctly at +200 yards and across zone transitions.

This does not correct off sheet damage multipliers double dipping on the temporary DoT but it does make it so you cannot use it in any meaningful way. If you do more damage than the infinite DoT threshold in one hit, you cannot avoid igniting.

Firebird on PTR is really just Tal Rasha with fire skills but worse in every conceivable way. Using skills does not impart any defensive bonuses and the maximum damage multiplier is much lower. It also halves your skillbar in a way that Tal Rasha does not due to the limited number of truly usable skills that deal weapon damage as fire. And lets face it, the other half of your skillbar is already mandatory active skills that are really passives like Energy Armour.

You know its bad when you find yourself going back to blizz hydra.
The Season 2 version worked good. Why can't they just buff the numbers to scale with the difficulty instead of failing at redesigns? It would be nice to have a pure fire build again without the need for Chantodos and Archon to dominate the boards.
One of my better FB ideas, if you like, lets come to a joint consensus and post it. Get a bunch of likes, and have a nice consensus to present to dev team. I'm open to rework, revision, edits, and whatever, but we need to avoid a massive shotgun of ideas sprayed all about. I know I've been bad about that.

My idea posted in Nev. thread on PTR:

How about the 4 piece grants conflagration stacks equal to the damage taken up to 3000%. This effect can gain stacks for up to 3 seconds. The burn is applied over three seconds. (some play off of MM)

So basically if you burn it hard and fast, FB will burn it hard. You hit it soft, FB doesn't blow the damage up. This doesn't require a three different skills, which I'm a fan of. I also like that you could maximize the 4pc damage much more with a high AS skill over the Chan Set. The Chan. set would max out at 3 stacks at 3000% dmg. You could get many more hits at slightly less than 3000% dmg to get a much higher dmg. FoD with flame blades might be amazing here. Could get about 18 stacks in easily. If hitting around 2000% dmg, you would get another 36,000% dmg from the 4 pc(crude math). So about 12,000%/sec. This could make non-archon skills more viable. Admittedly, only things with sufficient AS. And I doubt it's still enough to compare to Archons massive multipliers.

EDIT: have each stack increase in damage by 10%? I like this idea as it increases the FB reward to keep burning the enemy. Plus, the high AS skills would really shine. Could balance it by making the reward/ dmg increase based on amount of resource spent on attack. So 10% for generators, and 10% +1%/ arcane consumed in attack. This would bump it up nicely. A big meteor could grant upwards of 50% dmg on hit (50% more of the 3000% dmg base line). You could blast a few sig spells, then drop a meteor to get that last big hit. Also helps builds that aren't archon compete. As outlined the Flame Blades would make the 4PC bonus hit around 33,000%(crude math; closer to 42k may be more accurate)! This is probably very over powered, but it definitely competes with archon!!! In a very dynamic way! I guess archon gets on the low end an average of 160k dps (4 secs of two sets of archon stacks hitting at 10k dps and 16 secs of 1 set of 50 archon stacks hitting at 10k dps - averaged over 20 secs.) This is still quite low to that.

I guess FB/ archon wouldn't change much though. Not sure how to fix that other than the skill requirement that is currently in PTR. Honestly think the problem is Fazulas and the Swami, not archon. Shall see what dev team comes up with. Could nix the Chan. set, but there is not time for that.

EDIT: Maybe we just need some oranges that can compete with Archon/ Chan set.

Problem: Tals 6pc/ FB4pc would take over. 6 pc should carry most of dps.
06/19/2016 03:26 PMPosted by WitchesStone
The Season 2 version worked good. Why can't they just buff the numbers to scale with the difficulty instead of failing at redesigns? It would be nice to have a pure fire build again without the need for Chantodos and Archon to dominate the boards.


Correction, the vyrs+firebirds+chantodos topped the leader boards. Which was the exploit build. How exactly do you expect channeling to be any good? I could work with tal rasha but firebirds? Not a chance. The burn effect and the 2000% damage buff just isn't enough. There's no way to do any damage that matches tal rasha unless you use firebirds archon. Tal Rasha twister build has the Energy Twister buff of 150% more twister dmg per stack. At 8 stacks thats 1,200% more twister damage. You could do a twister build with firebirds but what would be the point when the set doesn't do enough damage compared to tal rashas 6 piece effect anyway? A firebirds twister build would be stupid. A channeling build would be stupid. The only thing firebirds has that makes it okay is archon. Without archon theres just no way firebirds will ever match tal rasha. If the 4 piece effect wasn't how it is, there maybe a way but then again that 2000% is 1000% damage away from tal rashas 3000%. In every way, tal rasha beats firebirds. Even in live, tal rasha beats firebirds at least 4 player. Tla Rasha twister build uses Raging Storm which deals 3,2000% weapon dmg when 2 twisters collide. With the twister swords stacks, thats increased to 4,400%. weapon damage. Then add the 3000% 6 piece dmg with the 100% damage you get from travelers pledge and compass rose. All of that alone is far better than anything firebirds is capable of.
I think the firebirds 6 piece archon build was balanced in comparison to the tals twister build. But of course it has to be ruined by the stupid noob exploit build. The truth is, a channeling firebirds build wont work anymore. I think they should buff the damage to at least 2,800% or 3000% and lower the damage of archon so it would even out with tal rasha twister build. But if they did that, it will make the vyrs set even worse than it already is because of the fact that there's no damage buff. The Vyrs set needs a damage buff or at least 2000% (maybe if that).

However, if they some how make a way for channeling to work, im okay with it. Im just saying as of right now its pointless
This game is dead (developed), deal with it. Switch game until Diablo "4".
It would be amazing if at the end of the season, all the firebug stuff on ladder was wiped :P Probably would get lots of people angry but it would be pretty funny.
Lol that would be. As all clears with firebirds set use the bug in sort regardless. So we eoukd have tals and dmo at the top
If they would do that, we would be bottom tier.
We should see that next season.
Fb set would be like is now with the bug: no cc, no cd, focus on survival stats. and burn enemies every 3 seconds till they die.
Unintended builds, even if they are bugs, are the best of diablo.
Can etched sigil be used to get the second and third ignites?

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