Changes that will affect high-end group dynamics

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06/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
3. Most importantly, how interesting is the gameplay? As much as we'd all love to see a variety of classes and gameplay styles, it's actually the most critical that when you are playing these high-end group compositions that the gameplay is interesting and engaging.

if u see there are 3 ZDPS/buffers in party that dont bring direct damage
and there is only 1 Damage dealing

  • Maybe, and i mean MAYBE? apart of nerfing...
  • ...TOP DPS... And nerfing the buffs from ZDPS...
    HOW about a Middle Way of letting those buffs from ZDPS to be accessible also to the DPS builds?
    And of course other classes/set under-performing for 2 patches being 10 rifts lower compared to top needs that slight buff maybe?

    Maybe those items that buffs that skill for that Under-performing Build that u devs created 4 different items that CANT even be used together, maybe need some changin? and coupled the powers? Moved Powers from items to Set buffs? 2 items in 1?
    ((But FOR the love of god pls no more + 100% skill damage on items, but put that 100% on them AS Orange Power pls....))

    If have ONLY and Only that 1 build that works for that set And uses only that 1 item "Z" and other 5 different items for 5 different builds for that set are 10-20 rifts lower, Maybe Nerf Item "Z" slightly and buff completely final damage of the set? apart of buffing those other 5 items for those 5 different builds??

    Maybe and Maybe that a set that sits at 500% increased damage for 6p bonus and still is 10 rifts lower than other setts maybe and i mean MAYBE needs buff no? try with 600%? then 800%? and so a PTR no?
    IF have combo sets A+B that gives problems, look what buffs the skill, and what set haves more problems? nerf slightly one bonus buff the other one?
    Without Completely destroying that build drop that XX% there from 2p or 4p of set "A" Put X00% on that other set "B" 6p see how works
    Without over-nerfing items that make that build work of course...((hint* hint*... The Swami...))

  • U dont like when players Pack to many mobs together?
  • Can always make mobs enrage when clustered together to many for to long time? and "explode" or Retort against players with higher increased damage damage back to party ->that way party will be forced to back off form time to time?

  • Instead of nerfing Crowd Control Skills, Why simply not make CC resistance more Intelligent?
  • Like Give a decent CC for the Class/player, but make also Immune the Target to that CC from only that class after it got used, and only Another class can chain its CC after first class to make it work longer (and not stuff like 2 sec of time for CC only)
    Monk Frozen the Targets for 5 sec, they become immune to its CC for 5 sec, it needs WD to step in and CC the target with is own CC skill next for example
    And then Wiz drops bubble and he doesnt CC target But protect his teammates from damage for next 5 sec
    And so on...
    If skills are not used good and carefully in succession and players dont keep attention to play field all goes wrong if they wil just spam their skills no looking at the situation in combat
    Requires kinda a lot of coordination not just brainless button spam
    I'm all for 1+dpser in groups, but part of the reason 3supp+1dps meta came into existence is cause of the lag that comes with having more than one dpser in high GRs...hopefully you guys keep trying to optimize the servers before this happens, like you mentioned. I still dread the days of teaming up with another ball lightning m6 DH, only to lag up and crash the entire game back in season 1.

    edit: you know !@#$s going down when wudi's in the house!
    Really relieved to see this post, I'm excited to see what you have in store. I was giving up hope and expecting only very simple changes to shake things up a little, instead we got this and I'm glad to see a big shift is coming. I hope you get it right, I'm excited to test new metas in a new group environment.

    Will we also see some changes to the damage done by different monster affixes or will the changes be player-character only?
    Hi Blizz team,

    I think the core problem here is that Energy Twisters are standing still, with Raging Storm rune*. (*Through a well-known glitch, searchable on youtube)

    I have been closely monitoring blue posts this PTR cycle hoping that this core issue will be addressed. The problem isn't the sword, or the damage tuning, it's the exploitation of a glitch.
    just want to say an honest thankyou to Wyatt for posting
    To Wyatt,

    Thank you for taking the time to update the community. It's always been my view that you guys can only provide us the tools, we make the rest happen. It's nice to see validation of that perspective. The thing I'd like to point out is that between solo play and group play there are the followers. Could there be a middle ground there for the development of your stated goals in addressing the meta concerns? Could the reduction of group buffs affecting solo play be mitigated somewhat by enhancing the followers?

    Several ideas I've seen floating around include allowing up to all three followers simultaneously, allowing more item slots for the followers, and adding to their abilities.

    At any rate, it's great to see this kind of engagement from the Diablo team. Thanks again and have a great weekend.

    I'm happy to see this kind of change, but am wondering if such a change makes non seasonal pushing rather worthless. Not that I play NS anyway just sayin though.

    Keeping in mind that standing still and hitting the wall ( not the monsters, just hitting the wall ) is not engaging in any way, the problem that made many persons stop any activity in D3 is the following :

    a) In season 6 ( or even season 58 or any other season) leveling and paragon grind seams like a chor ). Why would anybody paragon grind in season when they already have 3.xk paragons in ns. It makes no sense. So people just play 2 days ( season journey ) and then quit.

    b) in Non-season, why grind more when the paragon increase is slowers and slower. 2 hours for 1 paragon does not feels rewarding at all. Also no reward for leveling gems as the problem is that you can have in rings/ammy only 3 gems. Your main gems. After you get them to level 115/120 then what ?

    Please understand that in non-season we have at least 1 set of gems leveled at 100+ just in case a new set/build becomes viable.

    Problems :
    a) Why in season prople just play few days in the beginning then the majority of players quit ? Can we make the season journey more rewarding ? Maybe a little longer.

    Solution : It is a 3 month season, so the "season journey " should take a little bit more time.

    b) Non season:
    1. Paragon grind becomes unrewarding because of diminishing returns.
    Solution: increase the EXP rewarded by higher GR. This way people able to clear high GR should feel also a reward in their paragons earned.

    2. The legendary gem leveling becomes stagnant at some time.
    Solution: increase the dps number of some sets each season/patch so the player base can see some increase in GR clears. This way we can see some progress, increase the GR clear, gives us increasing legendary gems levels.
    06/24/2016 01:02 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng

    Fair warning: The reduction to group buffs is severe. People will be shell shocked.


    "gets popcorn ready"
    I like the focus on making people have to avoid mechanics rather than just ignore them and soak them, but at the same time, there is no way you can currently avoid most mechanics in high g rifts. Arcane beams EVERYWHERE, orbitters, molten, mortar. All of this happening at the same time. You can't possibly avoid even half of it, so I hope that is at least a consideration. Either tone down the amount of ground effects/ect there are when you make these changes (And also make them more noticeable), or give some other way to avoid them.
    06/24/2016 02:19 PMPosted by TheTias
    Wyatt, while we do expect solo to suffer some trickle down nerfage from the group buffing/healing changes, we do ask that you please take into consideration that solo barely has enough healing as it is, and removing a significant portion of what little we've got will drastically affect our ability to push higher greater rifts.

    Basically, we're asking you to consider solo healing in particular so that we aren't made so squishy that the game feels impossible to play through, especially the harder to do seasonal conquests and greater rifts.

    Hopefully there's a way you can pull a rabbit out of your hat and not destroy solo survivability due to going after the support meta.

    What are the chances that solo players won't end up getting the shaft? Call me cynical, but I'm guessing...pretty slim.
    If you are going to go this far, you may as well go all the way.

    Damage taken buffs - Player specific, no longer buffing the group. This allows you to have a "debuffer" playstyle that debuffs enemies with low-damage dots, and then hits them with a high-damage move.

    Healing - Nobody brings healing to other players. Instead, everyone has some form or another of significant self-sustain.

    Damage - Move damage for most monsters from their melee to their abilities. Having to constantly run from a group of monsters so you do not get gibbed is NOT fun. In addition, make their usage of abilities punishing, but sparse. When you get to the point that it takes 30 straight seconds to down a pack, you do NOT want it to take an extra minute because you are constantly moving. Not being able to kill something is NOT fun.
    This is my suggest to end the 1dps + 3 support meta.

    The ancient Bonesaber of zumakalis: Magic weapon gain the effect of Ignite and is also applied to your allies. Ignite now cause all fire attack to cause up to 3 enemies to explode, dealing 400% weapon damage as Fire to enemies within 10 yards.

    This will allow support build for wizard. Also it will change the meta of 1 + 3 zpds greater rift build. As now other player could also deal damage which scale with the main dps, wizard, damage.

    Imagine a dps support wizard, buffing a multishot DH, 5 aps monk with fire spirit generator, e.g. fist of furry. and a pet witch doctor which use fire fetishes. It would open up a lot of possibilities.
    First, really stoked for this. Increasing the number of DPS in the meta and groups in general will be great for the game.

    I would caution 'problem 2' because if you get the others changes right, this won't be much of a problem.

    Before groups were full of zdps, some of the most fun I had was balancing pulling the right amount of mobs. Pull to much and your group will wipe over and over. There was a danger factor which kept you on your toes and made individual movement that much more important. Especially if healing is done right, you will not have groups pulling half the map to be efficient. Knowing your groups limits and when to pull more is fun.

    In my opinion let the team control the pull, but let it be punishing if too much is pulled.

    06/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng

    PROBLEM #2: It is too easy to group monsters together. This is bad because:

    • It disproportionately increases the damage of the group compared to adding a 2nd damage dealer. If you have twice as many monsters grouped, not only are you dealing twice as much total damage - you're also scaling Area Damage upwards.
    • On top of this, many of the grouping mechanics encourages stationary combat. If you're chain-pulling monsters to a point, you're fighting in one location for extended periods of time.
    • In addition to being stationary, you’re also casting spells at a single location – it’s more engaging when you have to adjust dynamically to a changing battlefield.
    • The grouping mechanics also act as a soft crowd-control, disabling monsters from attacking players, causing combat to feel stagnant and non-interactive.
    • Grouping increases visual noise, which makes discerning (and hence responding to) monster mechanics difficult.
    • Finally, it can cause server issues. While we are always working on server performance optimizations, we also need to recognize that the current game design rewards players for bringing as many monsters as possible onto the screen at once.

    CHANGE #2: We are going to make adjustments to crowd control and pull effects to make it harder to perpetually pull monsters onto a single point.
    So, basically, we solo players are screwed. AGAIN.

    Cheng, why not simply separate group from solo, let things work differently from each mode? This can open worlds of possibility.

    Please just don't screw with solo players because of groups.
    06/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
    I want to be clear—"the meta" being stale is not a good enough reason for us to take action.

    I appreciatte the new focus (honestly) but As a customer I also want to be clear, "the meta" being stale is not a good enough reason for me to follow any diablo game.
    Actual #1 problem with the game: too many benefits for groups and too little to none for solo.
    I don't even care what the changes are, I'm just hyped to see big changes period. Thanks for the update Wyatt!
    I hope we can still solo t13 after the next patch...

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