Changes that will affect high-end group dynamics

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06/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
PROBLEM #1: Bringing damage support buffers is more effective than bringing a second damage dealer. Why bring damage dealer #2 when you can bring a damage support who increases the damage of damage dealer #1 by 300%?

btw 300% from one?...well not really

Just a reminder:
All the buffs WD skills did bring where all in SAME DIBS category that u devs screwed up at start
of game
And after 3 years still did not fixed it And even made the genius move to add crap like +100% rolls to skill damage on items that are in Same DIBS category as said damage buffs against monsters that ruined a lot of skills and balance in this game in build skills and rolls to be made on items

So WD basically did bring 100% DIBS buffing damage not 300%
And Monk an other 100% also same category

SO yes that...
The other buff is simply the Oculus Ring u changed only 1 patch ago to be 85% multiplicative damage increase

So really how u ppl failed to see that is beyond acceptable
06/24/2016 05:55 PMPosted by Colt
06/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
I want to be clear—"the meta" being stale is not a good enough reason for us to take action.


I appreciatte the new focus (honestly) but As a customer I also want to be clear, "the meta" being stale is not a good enough reason for me to follow any diablo game.


I 100% agree with this. How can you keep people playing a game that is just the same boring thing over and over?
I dont play 4 man and i dont care what "the meta" is, and even when i play we always play 4 dps with my friends, we never do "pushing". i want a nice single class play styles. so fix crusader please haha and thanks :)
My god. Thank you. Finally.... I thought I was going to have to quit and uninstall my favorite game for good. This is the best news Ive heard on this game in months. Godspeed on the changes. Kill the servant meta. It sucks.
06/24/2016 07:38 PMPosted by mokitosh
I dont play 4 man and i dont care what "the meta" is, and even when i play we always play 4 dps with my friends, we never do "pushing". i want a nice single class play styles. so fix crusader please haha and thanks :)


Fix Crusader? Have you played LoN? It's a beast. Check mine out. He obliterates a 75 with 4+ minutes left and I don't even have the gems leveled to "meta" levels... or have completely optimum gear yet in a few slots. Sader is in a good place imo
Wyatt, do you remember your initial design goal for DIII?

You (the devs) said that players shall be able to create their own builds and that all builds shall somewhat be on par with each other.

You even said that although there might be best builds, the top preforming builds will only be a few percentage points better than ordinary builds.
You called that 'viable over optimal'.

https://youtu.be/q3NkFxpb4hI?t=52m14s

Why have you forsaken that goal?

Now players don't use the skill combinations they personally enjoy the most, but everyone gets compelled into the same default builds by sets, because they are astronomically more efficient.

Why have you implemented such insane damage multipliers on legendaries and sets?
Now you have to balance damage multipliers on skills, runes, legendaries and sets.

Giving sets & legendaries these insane modifiers to specific skills instead of more generic buffs, has created a situation in which theory crafting and experimentation is dead and there is no incentive to play builds that do not get supported by sets.

Tl:dr
The root of the problem are insane damage multipliers and sets & legendaries that are only buffing specific skills instead of having more generic buffs which would benefit all builds.
06/24/2016 07:42 PMPosted by vektor
06/24/2016 07:38 PMPosted by mokitosh
I dont play 4 man and i dont care what "the meta" is, and even when i play we always play 4 dps with my friends, we never do "pushing". i want a nice single class play styles. so fix crusader please haha and thanks :)


Fix Crusader? Have you played LoN? It's a beast. Check mine out. He obliterates a 75 with 4+ minutes left and I don't even have the gems leveled to "meta" levels... or have completely optimum gear yet in a few slots. Sader is in a good place imo


Nobody wants to play LoN bombard because the playstyle is cancer and not the least bit fun.

People want to compete on the leaderboards real crusader builds - with flying shields and hammers and death rays from heaven, not some wanna be meteor wizard with a horse.
My god Wyatt, do u actually realize what you are conceding. For the sake of morale, someone needs to really proof your communications before they are disseminated. You are the lead designer and you do not know what you are designing? The player base knows more about the game then the design team? You have continually ignored the intelligent feedback and now we have a game that is broken beyond repair. Now that blizzard has eliminated the majority of the knowledgeable player base, game changes will be based on the feedback from the less knowledgeable player base. You cater to the whims of the casual player but design the game for the dedicated player.

You guys designed stationary combat with skills and gear designed specifically for stationary combat and now its not dynamic enough gameplay. You create gameplay that requires grouping of mobs in order to complete the run. You designed the game to require healing. Now your answer is to nerf healing and crowd control. Are you going to increase density? Moreover, your answer is always regression. Nerf something to make something else better. How long have you been playing with firebirds and you still can't get it to a level that can compete. You delete items at the last minute, but don't communicate the change to the player base. I can go on and on about the mistakes that have been implemented, but so many others have already done this in so many previous threads. Sorry to say but you're not doing a very good job with ROS.

Of course, the casual players don't really understand how your intended changes will continue to plunge this game into deeper depths of despair. It is so unfortunate that you are the lead designer.
06/24/2016 08:00 PMPosted by hesher
My god Wyatt, do u actually realize what you are conceding. For the sake of moral, someone needs to really proof your communications before they are disseminated. You are the lead designer and you do not know what you are designing? The player base knows more about the game then the design team? You have continually ignored the intelligent feedback and now we have a game that is broken beyond repair. Now that blizzard has eliminated the majority of knowledgeable player base, game changes will be based on the feedback from the less knowledgeable player base. You cater to the whims of the casual player but design the game for the dedicated player.


Actually his post read very humbly and honest. That alone shocked me enough that I had to read it twice.
06/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
Will this cause the highest rift tier to go down? To be frank - probably. We've never really done this before - nerfing the top performing builds. There are open questions ahead of us.


If, for example, the top rift tiers go down from about 120 now to only 100 the next patch, it will mean that all the players who are part of the present meta group composition will have a huge legendary gem advantage. I hope you rethink this. Yes, power creep will happen again, but it's better than giving a permanent advantage to everyone who is currently playing a meta composition.
But then buff the base WD dmg
Appreciate the note WC!
FIRST HONEST PERSON LISTEN TO AND IMPLEMENT CHANGES FROM HIM
Thank god.

Please hammer support builds into the ground
Reason to shake up meta: it isn't interesting and engaging.

The same applies to Paragon.
Enoone ,
You're wrong,debuffs applied by the mimics like pirhanas and mass confusion etc stack.
So 3x pirhana+3x MC + 3x haunt is already +195% damage. Add the toad debuff,BBV buff and you're not so far from the 300% buff/debuff .
The fact that the buff/debuff are additive is another point. 1 wizzard+1 wd = 2.5 wizzards dps
06/24/2016 08:00 PMPosted by hesher
My god Wyatt, do u actually realize what you are conceding. For the sake of morale, someone needs to really proof your communications before they are disseminated. You are the lead designer and you do not know what you are designing? The player base knows more about the game then the design team? You have continually ignored the intelligent feedback and now we have a game that is broken beyond repair. Now that blizzard has eliminated the majority of knowledgeable player base, game changes will be based on the feedback from the less knowledgeable player base. You cater to the whims of the casual player but design the game for the dedicated player.

You guys designed stationary combat with skills and gear designed specifically for stationary combat and now its not dynamic enough gameplay. You create gameplay that requires grouping of mobs in order to complete the run. You designed the game to require healing. Now your answer is to nerf healing and crowd control. Are you going to increase density? Moreover, you answer is always regression. Nerf something to make something else better. How long have you been playing with firebirds and you still can't get it to level that can compete. You delete items at the last minute, but don't communicate the change to the player base. I can go on and on about the mistakes that have been implemented, but so many others have already done this in so many previous threads. Sorry to say but you're not doing a very good job with ROS.

Of course, the casual players don't really understand how your intended changes will continue to plunge this game into deeper depths of despair. It is so unfortunate that you are the lead designer.


Finally a guy that gets it!!

Well said Hesher
For one thing, the game should support enough players so one of each class can be represented in each game. So instead of 4 max, 6 players should be max. And to deter from having all one class etc.... max of each class would be 2. Or for a 6 player game make it so each class must be represented. And make it so that if you do run a 6 man party (one of each class, lets call that group a Full House) the rewards xp, drops etc reflect this.

Booooom .....Heads explode!

You guys designed stationary combat with skills and gear designed specifically for stationary combat and now its not dynamic enough gameplay.

You create gameplay that requires grouping of mobs in order to complete the run.

You designed the game to require healing. Now your answer is to nerf healing and crowd control.

Are you going to increase density?

Moreover, you answer is always regression. Nerf something to make something else better.

How long have you been playing with firebirds and you still can't get it to level that can compete. You delete items at the last minute, but don't communicate the change to the player base. I can go on and on about the mistakes that have been implemented, but so many others have already done this in so many previous threads. Sorry to say but you're not doing a very good job with ROS.

Of course, the casual players don't really understand how your intended changes will continue to plunge this game into deeper depths of despair. It is so unfortunate that you are the lead designer.


Divided some of the main points so devs can read this clearly.

Wyatt, you're about to really mess up the meta of the entire game, not just the group meta.

The changes you propose affect solo play equally with group play. They are indivisible, yet somehow you expect to be able to re-invent the coding wheel on this one.

And I'd bet my next paycheck that you will neglect appropriate monster scaling, mob density, and other things that will just make this upcoming debacle even worse.

Yes, there's issue with the group meta, that's for sure. But the methods you propose are not the way to go about addressing the problems.
And solo gets the shaft again.
The devs ideas seem to suffer from the same RNG, which effects
our bad Legs. drops.
Happy for the people playing the Meta, but overall, the decisions
made to this game seem like a wildly swinging pendulum.

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