[GUIDE] FIRE MotE - Solo Leaderboard Build

Barbarian
Prev 1 2 3 4 9 Next
07/06/2016 01:11 AMPosted by Nubtro
Anyway, fire seems to be the superior choice for pushing compared to physical ;)


I'm still learning these MotE build variants but something tells me the Phy MotE build you ran for your GR91 could also be a contender for a Top 10 LB spot. As a matter of fact I'm going to be testing that build here soon and comparing it with RICK's fire build.

07/06/2016 02:02 AMPosted by R1CK
@ Nubtro
I´m the one and only Barb I´ve ever seen who´s running with 24% AD on weapon and not Eye of Etlich + Withing Hour instead of Hellfire Amulet + Dread Iron. So it´s my own build but yes most of the skills and items are similar. I can´t invent the whole wheel new ;)


Yea those gear alterations are unique to what you are doing for the Fire MotE but what also makes it different is the idea of usingInto the Fray]and not using Boon of Bul-Kathos. Took me a while to figure out why that combination actually works. I think the idea of using Into the Fray had been passed around here but many feels WC is a better choice, so it's not a popular choice...well around here at least. Top EU MoTE clears use Into the Fray so I knew there must be something there.

Topic on Blade of the Tribes weapon choice of 24% AD vs 10% Damage:

Of course the dream is having both like Thumps Blade. But not all of us are so gawdam fortunate.

Here's my analysis so far:

When forced to make a choice between AD vs 10% Damage, I believe both are equal choices but personally I will end up picking 10% Damage.

When talking fishing we are talking a dense map so AD will maximize DPS. The problem I've noticed is that when trash is low and the elite has 35-45% HP left sometimes it can get ugly. There are many situations why you can't finish off an Elite with so little HP left. Naturally you would want to drag it into density but we know this isn't always the best case. Sometimes it's near the end of the map, or there narrow hallways that make it difficult to lure, or maybe there just isn't much density left. Sometimes you decide to stay and die because the damage reduction isn't high enough from APD's from low density.

So AD is great but imo it clears off trash at a much faster than E's HP.

So 10% Damage has the benefit of not needing density to maximize it's value because it's constant. What I've notice of using 10% Damage vs AD is that now Elites are dying faster while there still density left. You might initially think this is a bad thing but we know Elites hold a substantial amount of progression so we want to kill E's for progression and also to spawn Pylons. If we are able to kill Elites while trash is still around this means you have strong APD's damage reduction. And soon as you kill E's if there is a substantial amount of trash left you can stick around for one cycle of Fire and be sure you kill most of what's left.

Another benefit of 10% Damage vs AD is that most RG's don't have ads so 10% will benefit 100% more than AD against a greater amount of RG Bosses.

In terms of damage calculation which is better? idk. What we do know is that both are effective and so neither can be too far off from the other...imo.

So that's my take when force to make a decision on your Tribes Blade for 10% Damage vs 24% AD.
Barb talking trash in German is awesome.
07/06/2016 07:54 AMPosted by KingBenjamin
When forced to make a choice between AD vs 10% Damage, I believe both are equal choices but personally I will end up picking 10% Damage.


I wonder if this 10% damage interacts with the other AD on your gear?
07/06/2016 10:41 AMPosted by Bloodyzbub
Barb talking trash in German is awesome.


haha i bet!

07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Tao
07/06/2016 07:54 AMPosted by KingBenjamin
When forced to make a choice between AD vs 10% Damage, I believe both are equal choices but personally I will end up picking 10% Damage.


I wonder if this 10% damage interacts with the other AD on your gear?


I'm sure it does. Since the 10% Damage is just increasing the base damage of your weapon, and that's where all damage is calculated from, I would assume whatever total amount of AD you have on gear/paragons would use the base damage of your weapon with the 10% Damage included.

The difference being that if you go AD over 10%Damage then you'll have more DPS (how much, not sure) on your AOE...ie density. The problem I notice from what I mentioned above is that although I was wiping the trash density down fast it was actually too fast leaving me with half HP elites. When switched to 10% Damage i noticed that density/trash was not dying as fast but I was killing Elites faster and safer because density was sitting longer around me to proc APD's.

I wish I could get both but having to choose one 10% Damage is doing better for me atm.
Posted by Tao
07/06/2016 07:54 AMPosted by KingBenjamin
When forced to make a choice between AD vs 10% Damage, I believe both are equal choices but personally I will end up picking 10% Damage.

I wonder if this 10% damage interacts with the other AD on your gear?


Absolutey. Consider the more AD on your gear you have, the more watered down adding more of it becomes. At a certain point +10% dmg will be better in all circumstances but that might be impossible to reach.

Haven't played for a while but I imagine because of paragon/augment inflation your str./vit #'s are hyper inflated and on your wpn ideally you'd want both.

On min/maxing other pieces of gear, unless something has drastically changed, I've never been a fan of witching hour. It trades offense for defense directly and doesn't have a legendary secondary.

On shoulders/chest the marginal increase in dmg you get for +EQ dmg is once again a direct trade for losing defense. Unless tribes has changed, DIBS is super watered down and that 5%ish increase in dmg is fairly small.
07/06/2016 01:19 PMPosted by kingdo

Absolutey. Consider the more AD on your gear you have, the more watered down adding more of it becomes.


Is that correct? I thought since there are no other multipliers that go into AD that each incremental point provides linear improvement.

50% -> 60% or 90% -> 100% both result in a flat increase of 10% AD on screen.
07/06/2016 02:51 PMPosted by Shooter
07/06/2016 01:19 PMPosted by kingdo

Absolutey. Consider the more AD on your gear you have, the more watered down adding more of it becomes.


Is that correct? I thought since there are no other multipliers that go into AD that each incremental point provides linear improvement.

50% -> 60% or 90% -> 100% both result in a flat increase of 10% AD on screen.


No, it is a flat increase in the calculation. Consider 100 base damage, 50% is 50 area damage. 60% is 60 area damage, an increase of 10 total damage or a 20% increase. At 90% to 100%, it is 90 AD and 100 AD, respectively, or an 11% increase in damage. (See the diminishing returns already) As your total amount of area damage percentage increases, the increase in power diminishes until that 10% AD you squeeze onto your gear represents a less than 10% increase in your total damage dealt. When you get insane stacked amount of AD on your gear, the total increase in damage becomes trivial to the amount of damage you were doing before.

The 10% damage on your weapon is probably the closest thing to a true 10% increase in damage in the game since all damage calculations are based upon weapon damage. At some point, and it is dependent upon the number of critters your AD hits at any given time, the 10% weapon damage will outperform a 10% Area Damage increase over the course of a given Greater Rift.

Edit: Math geniuses please correct anything wrong with that statement.
You can't look at Area Damage that way. 90% to 100% being an 11% increase that is.

The largest factor of Area Damage is how many enemies are triggering it and how many enemies are subsequently being hit by it.

This is why Area Damage works better with AoE skills like Earthquake and Dust Devils. At a certain point, my hitting more enemies with 50% AD is more eDPS than your hitting fewer enemies with 100% AD for instance.

There's a lot of variables that come into play with Area Damage. It's why I tend to ignore it when trying to calculate damage.
06/22/2016 06:50 PMPosted by Jako
x * (y - 1) * z * 0.2
where x = Area Damage
where y = number of enemies within 10-yards
where z = number of enemies hit


Basic formula for Area Damage. Never look at it as a flat DPS increase. It scales with density, loses a lot of value on single target enemies.

10% Damage will usually be better than 24% Area Damage on a 2H weapon. Dual 24% Area Damage rolls will usually be better than dual 10% Damage rolls on 1H weapons due to alternating hands.
07/06/2016 03:13 PMPosted by Jako
You can't look at Area Damage that way. 90% to 100% being an 11% increase that is.

The largest factor of Area Damage is how many enemies are triggering it and how many enemies are subsequently being hit by it.

This is why Area Damage works better with AoE skills like Earthquake and Dust Devils. At a certain point, my hitting more enemies with 50% AD is more eDPS than your hitting fewer enemies with 100% AD for instance.

There's a lot of variables that come into play with Area Damage. It's why I tend to ignore it when trying to calculate damage.


Lol I did mention it being dependent on that :-) The basic point remains the same. Eventually the increase becomes trivial, though I would think it would be at the point when you are deciding whether to roll 18% AD to 20% or pick another stat to reroll.
07/06/2016 03:19 PMPosted by Foamy7
07/06/2016 03:13 PMPosted by Jako
You can't look at Area Damage that way. 90% to 100% being an 11% increase that is.

The largest factor of Area Damage is how many enemies are triggering it and how many enemies are subsequently being hit by it.

This is why Area Damage works better with AoE skills like Earthquake and Dust Devils. At a certain point, my hitting more enemies with 50% AD is more eDPS than your hitting fewer enemies with 100% AD for instance.

There's a lot of variables that come into play with Area Damage. It's why I tend to ignore it when trying to calculate damage.


Lol I did mention it being dependent on that :-) The basic point remains the same. Eventually the increase becomes trivial, though I would think it would be at the point when you are deciding whether to roll 18% AD to 20% or pick another stat to reroll.


That you did. Wasn't trying to single you out. Just wanted to stress that latter part of your post.

<3 Foams
I just tried this build. Soft as hell, had a hard time adjusting my survival instincts to deal with the loss of both warcry and band of might. That being said, i can see the potential of this build for higher grift fishing, it can dish out a bit more damage than physical mote so if you can survive and find good density you`re golden and the sky`s the limit.
I don`t think i can play this at my paragon level, i think 1500-1800 must be where you can get it balanced properly.
07/07/2016 06:55 PMPosted by Sigem
I just tried this build. Soft as hell, had a hard time adjusting my survival instincts to deal with the loss of both warcry and band of might. That being said, i can see the potential of this build for higher grift fishing, it can dish out a bit more damage than physical mote so if you can survive and find good density you`re golden and the sky`s the limit.
I don`t think i can play this at my paragon level, i think 1500-1800 must be where you can get it balanced properly.


Yea i also gave the build a try and came to the same conclusion. I'm still sub para 1000. I see the damage potential from the few runs i did with this at gr85. But to many deaths for my liking. I'm not a fan of fishing for rifts to make the build work. Physical MOTE toss is still my preference for now.
07/07/2016 08:10 PMPosted by Crypter
07/07/2016 06:55 PMPosted by Sigem
I just tried this build. Soft as hell, had a hard time adjusting my survival instincts to deal with the loss of both warcry and band of might. That being said, i can see the potential of this build for higher grift fishing, it can dish out a bit more damage than physical mote so if you can survive and find good density you`re golden and the sky`s the limit.
I don`t think i can play this at my paragon level, i think 1500-1800 must be where you can get it balanced properly.


Yea i also gave the build a try and came to the same conclusion. I'm still sub para 1000. I see the damage potential from the few runs i did with this at gr85. But to many deaths for my liking. I'm not a fan of fishing for rifts to make the build work. Physical MOTE toss is still my preference for now.


Glad you guys gave it a try! It's usually a good idea to try different build variations not only to discover a new build but because you can always learn a little on how different stats and skills interact.

RICK's Fire MotE is def a fisherman's build. Like it was mentioned above it will do the best performance with dense-open-maps. For this reason this it's a serious pushing build.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Testing something new atm:

I'm currently testing a high CDR build while sacrificing all AD stats for CDR. I've kept the build the same except instead of NoS i'm using Boon-BK to maximize on WotB. With this variation i'm 28 down cooldown on WotB. I'm testing if this way I can kill E's faster and maintain the same similar level of killin speed on trash. Trash is not the problem so i'm testing if i gear more towards E's if that will help goign the high CDR route with the same skill build.

Doing these test on GR89 with basically the same gear as i did GR88 with the original OP stat guide, except those AD stats are now CDR. See link to my char on OP if you are interested to view setup.
The good thing about the fire build is it teaches you how to play defensively, while still being offensive, if that makes any sense. I learned a ton from playing this extensively that can be applied to the Physical build.
GR 92 down in 13 min :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigV9qtzgPs

One silly death at the start, good progress around min 4 (conduit) & 10, saved power for boss and got Hamboy.

Took me ~25 keys from which I finished most runs in ~18 min with relatively few deaths - except for rly nasty bosses.

I think with slightly better gear (good Hellfire, Tribes with Fury, ancient shoulders) I could have cleared GR 94 with this run.
07/08/2016 09:34 AMPosted by Siladil
The good thing about the fire build is it teaches you how to play defensively, while still being offensive, if that makes any sense. I learned a ton from playing this extensively that can be applied to the Physical build.


Sometimes the best Offense is the best Defense....is that what you were going for?!? :D

07/08/2016 12:07 PMPosted by Rudi1337
GR 92 down in 13 min :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigV9qtzgPs


Nice! I was wondering how well this build would do against the Rat King since he's one of the best RG's to get. Now I know this build can tank it.

GL on 93!!!!
07/08/2016 09:34 AMPosted by Siladil
The good thing about the fire build is it teaches you how to play defensively, while still being offensive, if that makes any sense. I learned a ton from playing this extensively that can be applied to the Physical build.


You make a good point, trying different builds makes you learn new tricks, new methods and it lets you fool around with your setup to accomodate your playstyle. I went back to physical, removed war cry and added WoTB. Missed topping my best GR by 20 seconds the first try so i think there`s something i can work on here.
07/08/2016 12:07 PMPosted by Rudi1337
GR 92 down in 13 min :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigV9qtzgPs

One silly death at the start, good progress around min 4 (conduit) & 10, saved power for boss and got Hamboy.

Took me ~25 keys from which I finished most runs in ~18 min with relatively few deaths - except for rly nasty bosses.

I think with slightly better gear (good Hellfire, Tribes with Fury, ancient shoulders) I could have cleared GR 94 with this run.
Thanks for your video, I appreciate it!

I really don't know how to play properly with these classes of builds. With raekor it's a whole different history just because I love raekor lol

I think that I really suck with any EQ variation.
@Tao

Next time you're on and see me in-game, remind me to link a Tribes I have in stash.

It's a beast.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum