I Quit Diablo 3 Because of Firebirds

Wizard
Tal's Archon will not overtake FB. You cannot compare only set multipliers as you are forgetting few things: 3k DoT from FB, extra 60% DR from 6pcs (@ full stacks) and ... Tal's doesn't have shoulders and boots in the set which means that you cannot run Endless Walk set.
07/14/2016 04:48 AMPosted by RoGeR
Tal's Archon will not overtake FB. You cannot compare only set multipliers as you are forgetting few things: 3k DoT from FB, extra 60% DR from 6pcs (@ full stacks) and ... Tal's doesn't have shoulders and boots in the set which means that you cannot run Endless Walk set.


The Firebird dot wasn't much useful before and it still won't be now. You move two screens away, the enemies stop burning.

But what killed the set is having to use 3 fire runes to get a weaker bonus than Tal Rasha's. And you need to ignite every enemy to get the bonus on them, while Tals you can just spam two skills every now and then to inflict full damage on everything.
Guys, stop comparing Firebird with Tal Rasha.

Tal Rasha requires 4 skill uses to give you its maximum power.
Firebird requires you to hit individual enemies with 3 different fire skills. It's not just that it's lacking in power, it is also indirect and slow. As much as many of you dislike TR, it is actually fun to play. Firebird isn't.

That being said, I'm not quitting because of this change. I'm quitting because there's nothing new and exciting in the game. This game has always been about mechanics and their interactions, but it only goes so far without regular new mechanics to play with and explore their interactions.

In essence, the next patch is going to offer us the following:
* A modified mechanic that is strictly weaker and less fun to play than it's previous version (Firebird).
* A removed mechanic (ET stacking).
* A mostly useless mechanic (Starfire).

Well... pass.
07/15/2016 01:03 AMPosted by Feanor
Guys, stop comparing Firebird with Tal Rasha.

Tal Rasha requires 4 skill uses to give you its maximum power.
Firebird requires you to hit individual enemies with 3 different fire skills. It's not just that it's lacking in power, it is also indirect and slow. As much as many of you dislike TR, it is actually fun to play. Firebird isn't.

That being said, I'm not quitting because of this change. I'm quitting because there's nothing new and exciting in the game. This game has always been about mechanics and their interactions, but it only goes so far without regular new mechanics to play with and explore their interactions.

In essence, the next patch is going to offer us the following:
* A modified mechanic that is strictly weaker and less fun to play than it's previous version (Firebird).
* A removed mechanic (ET stacking).
* A mostly useless mechanic (Starfire).

Well... pass.


I've already explained the problem in the focused feedback thread (but i added the quote below). Yes, the set says dealing damage (which is different from tals), but that doesnt mean it is allowed to work with procs something that has always been against the devs rules, procs can not proc procs. Magic weapon is a proc, Familiar is a proc that you dont cast, Weapon text is a proc, meteor from the set is a proc so those methods that work on the PTR will be fixed going live.

If they do not fix this bug then they released it this way on purpose which means that the development team is worse than we realized since they are going against their previous game design decisions by allowing this change in order for the firebird set users to feel as if they have more skill choices when we practically have none. If this bug goes live and they do not fix it then they need to change tal rasha to match it, im tired of being forced to use teleport calamity, i should be allowed to gain my archon stack from familiar. Other classes must also come out and demand this change since we cant allow one set to work with procs when all legendaries and sets were deliberately removed from that ability.

Either way we look at it the new firebrids set redesign is very bad, clunky and its basically a duplicate Tal Rasha expect that its based on skill hit instead of cast. I do agree with you that it does say "Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire for 3 seconds" which means blizzard wants to to keep recasting your skills not have it work with a permanent buff (magic weapon). In its current PTR design currently all fireskills, procs, even tals meteors proc this effect. This is definitly a bug and needs to be fixed before live. since blizzard said repeatedly that procs cant activate other procs. They even fixed a recent crusader item that had this bug. Fire birds is just like focus and restraint which neither familiar, magic weapon or tal rasha meteors allow to proc so its pretty obvious that this firebird set is bugged like always no matter what design these dev's provide to it.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

Technically you still can. It's super annoying, but it'll work.

Stack 1: EB
Stack 2: Magic Weapon: Ignite
Stack 3: The TR2 fire meteor

(yes, both Ignite and the TR2 fire meteor will trigger FB4)

You'll only be able to get the permanent burn going once every 8 seconds when the TR2 fire meteor falls, but the rest of the time you'll still be popping off 2000% WD DoTs on mobs from EB + Ignite. It's definitely not as good as it is on live servers, but FireRasha isn't dead yet. It's just limping.


This is only possible because the bug hasnt been fixed yet. You cant activate procs from other procs.

Its the same reason why etched sigil procs dont count as tal rasha procs. The same will happen with the 3 different fire skill procs since its designed to copy tal rasha.

Nevalistis: Lots of items with procs were proccing other things accidentally. The apparent change might be what Wyatt says, “We don’t want procs proccing procs.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYojC5_vyB4&t=58m6s


<span class="truncated">...</span>

Well I suppose Ignite should seeing it's a skill, but I would assume the TR2 fire meteor triggering FB4 is a proc proccing a proc which I would have assumed should not have worked (even though that rule isn't absolute I'm told).


If it doesn't work with tal rasha to proc it's bonus then it shouldn't work with the revised design of firebird's since it's a copy of tal rasha just with 3 skills instead of 4. This means magic weapon shouldn't work and neither should familiar.
I quit a long time ago after the removal of critical mass. I refuse to come back because of that. I enjoyed that game not this one. I still lurk the forums in hopes that a similar build was to pop up but after the crowd control nerfs and now even more in the new PTR i doubt I'll ever be back. I totally understand your anger! Loosing your favorite build sucks and the woh build was as close to CM as possible. I tested that one out in ptr 2.4 when we had the 2k leg drop buff.

I Enjoyed the game for a week then got bored again. Nothing compares to critical mass build, I played that for hundreds of hours whiteout losing interested and WOH with the halo ring came very close to that setup, but the fact that it's being nerfed again shows exactly how bad the direction of this class has been taken into. They be practically gutted all the vanilla content to flat out ignored it (high cooldowns, apoc nerf, cc nerf, proc rated nerf and more) just look at mirror image or diamond skin. There utterly worthless just like wave of force. The wizard class has been forced to use bugs just to get ahead. I definitely keep up with the game (watch YouTube, streamers, test ptr's) but I just can't spend another dime on blizzard ever because of the way the current development team screwed up the wizard class, I also noticed that they nerfed teleport! What's up with that, you used to get 4 teleports with that wormhole rune, now it's two.
I only come back to get new transmogs or pets for each season, I get those and quit again. Not sure what could make me come back for more often, maybe some new sets, especially an ice one.
Looks like season 7 is starting soon. Im almost positive they will not listen to the community and just fix the bug instead of changing the set.

07/27/2016 01:32 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Patch 2.4.2 will be launching very soon(™), and Season 7 will begin shortly after [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/20187365#faq"]on August 5[/url]. We've been keeping busy by preparing our characters, clearing out our [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/20167107/season-6-ending-soon-7-8-2016#rollover"]non-Seasonal stash[/url], and planning our first night rush to 70!

So how about you? Which class do you plan to kick off Season 7 with? Sticking with your favorite class, or are you rolling something new? Will you be grouping up with friends or going it solo?

We'd love to hear what you have planned for Season 7!


I'll be deleting the game day the patch launches. I'm also probably going to delete all my characters to force myself never to come back. Its truly sad to be kicked out of a game i paid for because the developers decided that they no longer like the way we play it. I'm tired of these developers being dictators so i'm quiting for good and never buying another blizzard product ever again.

I knew that i should have saved my money and skipped the expansion when i realized CM was removed. This dev team obviously hates every aspect of CM build (why it was removed) and now there finishing off the job by killing the only fun i had left with my tal/fire EB build.
Ya Firebirds is totally boned. Don't like they way 3 skills work with it.

But that just means everyone should not use that.

If no one uses Firebirds for anything they will get the point.
07/13/2016 04:30 AMPosted by Lexa
Or add channeling skills to DMO.


Love the idea of adding channeling skills to DMO. And yes, viable LoN would be much appreciated.

Meteor also needs a lot of love. I'd take a something that operates similar to DH's The Shadow's Mantle, only instead of impale it'd be centered around meteor. Just look at the numbers on that set for impale:

(2) Set:
While equipped with a melee weapon, your damage is increased by 1200%.

[While a staff is equipped, your damage is increased by 1200%. ... could just be an updated, existing legendary item]

(4) Set:
Shadow Power gains the effect of every rune and lasts forever.
[Meteor gains the effect of every rune. ... could just be an updated, existing legendary item]

(6) Set:
Impale deals an additional !!! 40000% !!! weapon damage to the first enemy hit.

[boost Nilfur's Boast?]

TSM hits super hard, isn't an overly complicated playstyle, but also requires some strategy and positioning that make it active, fun and rewarding; not dissimilar to how you might like to play a viable meteor build. Impale also cost half what meteor costs by default and can basically be spammed indefinitely with the appropriate build.
07/27/2016 04:27 PMPosted by mat82284
I'll be deleting the game day the patch launches. I'm also probably going to delete all my characters to force myself never to come back. Its truly sad to be kicked out of a game i paid for because the developers decided that they no longer like the way we play it. I'm tired of these developers being dictators so i'm quiting for good and never buying another blizzard product ever again


Now you are just being a sore, pathetic loser.
And I'm not even trying to offend you....

When you played a game this much and have a paragon level of 900+, with a seasonal character on top of that, you are just being a jackass.

I'm not playing myself anymore but I did have fun till the day I quit. Even though there was a lot missing or broken in this game.

If you really mean what you just said, you should have never played the game for this long.
07/27/2016 11:09 PMPosted by Motions
07/27/2016 04:27 PMPosted by mat82284
I'll be deleting the game day the patch launches. I'm also probably going to delete all my characters to force myself never to come back. Its truly sad to be kicked out of a game i paid for because the developers decided that they no longer like the way we play it. I'm tired of these developers being dictators so i'm quiting for good and never buying another blizzard product ever again


Now you are just being a sore, pathetic loser.
And I'm not even trying to offend you....

When you played a game this much and have a paragon level of 900+, with a seasonal character on top of that, you are just being a jackass.

I'm not playing myself anymore but I did have fun till the day I quit. Even though there was a lot missing or broken in this game.

If you really mean what you just said, you should have never played the game for this long.


Text book Ad Hominem. So what if he played the game a bunch? D3 vanilla was a train wreck despite the nostalgia some people have for it (myself included.)

ROS started as a valid attempt to fix things and they never did. Sets were supposed to be the band-aid but ended up forcing us to play how the devs want us to. Infinite scaling only compounded this.

Diablo 3 has one saving grace and that is its gameplay. It feels incredibly good to destroy monsters. Nothing else on the developer side shows that there is anything left at Blizzard that deserves customer loyalty. That said, it is still one of my favorite games of all time, and the dev teams are perfect examples of what not to do.

Ive got nearly 1200 paragon, and I absolutely refuse to ever buy another blizzard game. I extend the same courtesy to Activision. As customers we have the right to choose what we spend money on and insulting someone because they dont share your views is pretty much exactly what is wrong everywhere on this planet.
07/28/2016 04:49 AMPosted by Gbrav13
Diablo 3 has one saving grace and that is its gameplay. It feels incredibly good to destroy monsters. Nothing else on the developer side shows that there is anything left at Blizzard that deserves customer loyalty. That said, it is still one of my favorite games of all time, and the dev teams are perfect examples of what not to do.


I beg to differ.

There are a couple of factors in play here. First, it's the gameplay. Yes, it's the core feature of the game. But there is a problem. It's 2016 and out there are great many games that offer a less polished version of the same gameplay, however with much more content. Rifting is fun, but gets old. Modern MMOs offer so much more. But D3 cannot offer content on the same scale as it doesn't have the income MMOs do. So the game has to rely on the gameplay and accept it's going only to last for so long.

Second, it's the player base. Yes, they could have extended the life of the game by offering more grind. However, this would only keep the hardcore players - and again, not forever - and scare off casual players much faster.

I think Blizzard have done well. It's actually pretty amazing D3 survived this long, catering to this many players. And now they are focusing on other stuff, creating new hypes like they always do.
07/28/2016 05:49 AMPosted by Feanor
I think Blizzard have done well. It's actually pretty amazing D3 survived this long, catering to this many players. And now they are focusing on other stuff, creating new hypes like they always do.


I see. The biggest disappointment in gaming history is a job well done by Blizzard.

Nah sorry. If this game was labelled anything other than Diablo 3 then it would have even less players than it currently does. And it certainly would not have sold in the mass millions. It is not a job well done. It as job done with as little effort as possible , but it survives courtesy of the franchise/company rep and the promise of a better tomorrow.

Even D2 will outlive this game.
07/28/2016 05:49 AMPosted by Feanor
07/28/2016 04:49 AMPosted by Gbrav13
Diablo 3 has one saving grace and that is its gameplay. It feels incredibly good to destroy monsters. Nothing else on the developer side shows that there is anything left at Blizzard that deserves customer loyalty. That said, it is still one of my favorite games of all time, and the dev teams are perfect examples of what not to do.


I beg to differ.

There are a couple of factors in play here. First, it's the gameplay. Yes, it's the core feature of the game. But there is a problem. It's 2016 and out there are great many games that offer a less polished version of the same gameplay, however with much more content. Rifting is fun, but gets old. Modern MMOs offer so much more. But D3 cannot offer content on the same scale as it doesn't have the income MMOs do. So the game has to rely on the gameplay and accept it's going only to last for so long.

Second, it's the player base. Yes, they could have extended the life of the game by offering more grind. However, this would only keep the hardcore players - and again, not forever - and scare off casual players much faster.

I think Blizzard have done well. It's actually pretty amazing D3 survived this long, catering to this many players. And now they are focusing on other stuff, creating new hypes like they always do.


I have rarely agreed with you about this game or blizzard, and see no reason to start now.

On the revenue front, please dont be silly. You know how many copies D3 sold, lack of profit isnt stopping blizzard. And if it was, and they said "Hey, we are adding micro, or a small monthly sub in return for X, Y, Z content at certain dates" I would pay for it. The problem is, they dont say anything! They are completely closed mouth about these things, and many modern companies (and IMO far better ones) have a lot more transparency.

I am not debating they tried, they just sucked at it. IMO, the problem is that different class designers never got together and discussed things with eachother, or they choose to ignore the hypocrisy in their design choices.

Procs dont proc procs.. Except when they do. LIke Barb Earthquakes procing AD. But wizard meteors cast by Etched dont.

MOTE: flat X% to skills, and spending fury reduces leap cooldown.
UE: Discipline buffs damage. Flat DR. Vault has no cooldown
Helltooth: Cast one skill, gain DR and damage, Grave Injustice reduces SW cooldown
Zuni: HIt with a mana spender, gain damage. DR based on pets. Fire and forget with the new enforcer

And plenty more. Yet the three main Wizard sets feel like they were designed for a tabletop or turn based RPG , not an ARPG. Especially one as fast paced as D3.

The wizard class has one or two dominate crutches holding up a plethora of crap design choices. That isnt the sign of a dev team that did a good job. Granted, this wouldnt be a problem without infinite scaling, but we have it, and it isnt going anywhere.
07/28/2016 06:50 AMPosted by Gbrav13
On the revenue front, please dont be silly. You know how many copies D3 sold, lack of profit isnt stopping blizzard.


Sold. Past tense. All the MMOs have consistent income, through either subscriptions (older ones) or microtransactions. Spending the profit you made on new content that's not going to bring any revenues isn't good business. You can call me silly if you wish, but please be realistic.

By the way, changing the model on the fly doesn't strike me as an easy task. Do you know any successful game where it was done?
07/28/2016 08:01 AMPosted by Feanor
07/28/2016 06:50 AMPosted by Gbrav13
On the revenue front, please dont be silly. You know how many copies D3 sold, lack of profit isnt stopping blizzard.


Sold. Past tense. All the MMOs have consistent income, through either subscriptions (older ones) or microtransactions. Spending the profit you made on new content that's not going to bring any revenues isn't good business. You can call me silly if you wish, but please be realistic.

By the way, changing the model on the fly doesn't strike me as an easy task. Do you know any successful game where it was done?


This isnt an MMO. And yes I do. Destiny.

Seriously, what have they added since ROS dropped? A couple of sets and 2-3 maps and the Cube? I know plenty of games who didnt do as well, that supported the game better than Blizzard has.

I have seen you trumpet the same "Oh poor blizz, not making enough money" line pretty often. And you know what? If you are actually right, then it is their own damn fault for not handling things well. It isnt our job to hold their hand.

Ive told you and others this before, and have yet to see any counterargument. Blizz has all the motivation in the world to support D3 well even if the game was a failure. Millions of players playing YOUR game is exactly how you sell them other games. It worked for Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, etc.

But D3 isnt a failure. They have made hundreds of millions in profits off this game and completely alienated the community. That is a failure of the company, and a sign that they dont deserve our respect or future purchases. Because it is stupid. And stupidity from a multi billion dollar gaming corporation is inexcusable.
07/27/2016 11:09 PMPosted by Motions
Now you are just being a sore, pathetic loser.
And I'm not even trying to offend you....


Not offended, but it sounds like you are. It sounds like my opinion of the game and my experiences with the game have offended you. The people you really should be offended by are the developers. They are the ones modifying a game that is supposedly not in beta in more. They are the ones splitting the community up, they are the ones not listening to us, they are the ones destroying builds and forcing changes upon us.

I'm just freely expressing my opinion and doing what i need to do to force myself to quit forever because of these problems. Just remember, without customers blizzard will disappear just like any other company. They are here to make money and serve us, without us there is no them. If customers stopped fighting back then we might as well just delete consumer protections and remove the ability to sue company's who screw us over.

07/27/2016 11:09 PMPosted by Motions
When you played a game this much and have a paragon level of 900+, with a seasonal character on top of that, you are just being a jackass.

I'm not playing myself anymore but I did have fun till the day I quit. Even though there was a lot missing or broken in this game.

If you really mean what you just said, you should have never played the game for this long.


Paragon doesnt prove how long I've played the game. I've actually played vanilla way more. I also dont force myself to play the meta or play the way the developers force us to play. I have been fighting against this for so long now with my fun EB build; but the recent changes to firebird nerfed my build by 10+ grifts just because the dev's deemed it so and that is the problem that i have with the game.

These developers need to realize that without us they will not have a job. Without us they will not have a future job, they need to stop treating this game like its a beta and instead add content to the game. Just because your happy with the game in its current form doesnt mean that you would have enjoyed Vanilla more.

What today's game was how vanilla launched and you really enjoyed it, but then a new development team decides to come in, do a complete 180 design change and force continuous changes that you dislike upon you. This is how we feel since we've been here for so long putting up with this continuous crap. I paid for a game i no longer have access to and because of that i have a right to be mad. If we had an offline mode then i wouldn't be on the forums complaining.

Even you yourself said that your not playing anymore, that's an obvious clue that there is something wrong with the developers design philopshy that they think that they can come in here and force changes upon everyone all the time. It's why the first team was dismantled and why their team now is being gutted. This is not a MMO, its an ARPG which should have been completed at launch with only additions added to the game. This is why i buy console games, i never have to worry about its design changing on me.

I have been a Diablo franchise lover for a long time and i actually havnt even played a PC game in years, my last PC game was counter strike and Diablo was the only reason i came back. If the game developers didn't have an ego problem (trying to make this their game) then we'd all be having fun, but instead they caused the long term customers to not only leave, but never want to buy another blizzard product again. I would have bought overwatch, but i refuse to give blizzard another dime as long as they continue this pattern of bad behavior. You're supposed to reward good behavior not bad behavior and this is why im considering deleting all my characters to make sure that i never come back and right now im 80% sure im doing it.

07/28/2016 08:13 AMPosted by Gbrav13
This isnt an MMO. And yes I do. Destiny.

Seriously, what have they added since ROS dropped? A couple of sets and 2-3 maps and the Cube? I know plenty of games who didnt do as well, that supported the game better than Blizzard has.

I have seen you trumpet the same "Oh poor blizz, not making enough money" line pretty often. And you know what? If you are actually right, then it is their own damn fault for not handling things well. It isnt our job to hold their hand.

Ive told you and others this before, and have yet to see any counterargument. Blizz has all the motivation in the world to support D3 well even if the game was a failure. Millions of players playing YOUR game is exactly how you sell them other games. It worked for Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, etc.

But D3 isnt a failure. They have made hundreds of millions in profits off this game and completely alienated the community. That is a failure of the company, and a sign that they dont deserve our respect or future purchases. Because it is stupid. And stupidity from a multi billion dollar gaming corporation is inexcusable.


Agree'd

07/28/2016 08:01 AMPosted by Feanor
Sold. Past tense. All the MMOs have consistent income, through either subscriptions (older ones) or microtransactions. Spending the profit you made on new content that's not going to bring any revenues isn't good business. You can call me silly if you wish, but please be realistic.

By the way, changing the model on the fly doesn't strike me as an easy task. Do you know any successful game where it was done?


My point exactly, this game needs to get out of beta and stop changing. Games that are finished and sold for $$ as a finished product should not have an ever changing model attached to it and these games are a complete failure when they do. The only successful game that blizzard made that worked this way was wow. At first it was just minor changes and expansions (they had lots of subs) but then they started doing to WOW what they have done to D3 and then there subs plummeted. They plummeted so low that blizzard had to stop reporting them to prevent the shareholders from selling their stock.

There is a reason why we don't have an endless supply of games being released in an ever changing beta format, it doesn't work. People don't like spending money on something just risk having something taken away from you at a later date. This would be like buying a car with 4 wheels and the car company coming back telling us they are doing a forced (patch) that will update all tires/rims from circles to a new octagon shape just because they can and deem it so.
07/28/2016 08:13 AMPosted by Gbrav13
Ive told you and others this before, and have yet to see any counterargument. Blizz has all the motivation in the world to support D3 well even if the game was a failure.


No, they don't. The only motivation for supporting a game is expected revenue. Because this is business and because supporting a game isn't cheap. It doesn't matter if they already made a zillion in profits from sales. It matters if you get any return on the new investment you make when choosing to support a game. You would do yourself a favor if you accept this simple fact.

I don't think they are getting any return, hence it is totally understandable why they don't want to spend a lot of money on support. Let me stress that again, because there seems to be a lack of understanding: it's not because they didn't make enough, it's because they are not going to make enough to justify spending these money now. It's a separate, new investment, and it's a bad one.
07/29/2016 12:34 AMPosted by Feanor
support

i wonder, why do you call the destruction of the game as support of the game..

07/29/2016 12:34 AMPosted by Feanor
it is totally understandable why they don't want to spend a lot of money on support.

explain plz, why they want to spend any quantity of money on destruction of the game.

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