HT Gargs RoE Will be Problem on Live

Witch Doctor
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I'm not gonna lie, it really feels nice to see a build hitting hard like that.

Now, I think blizz intended to make jade and maybe arachyr more competitive with gargs by boosting roe. People found a way to fit it on ht garg, and it turns out that gargs are even stronger and jade/arachyr still less viable.

If you even compare to other classes high end builds on PTR, garg roe is doing far more dmg than the others. This will probably impact on live servers when several pros, and people pushing for real will be. Making wd skyrocket from other classes in the ladder, and once again creating a discrepancy in the classes balance, making everyone have to make wd to level gems, and wd the only option for 4s dps.

I main a wd, and I love garg build as much as i love trying stuff with lon and arachyr. I honnestly think blizz should change this ring to a way that it would only be viable for jades and maybe arachyr sets. HT garg didnt need this ring to stay competitive with other classes builds in 2.4.1, this ring is just making it unfair now.

Edit - 07/25

I forgot to add a suggestion to this ring. The ring should apply the 300% dmg only to you and not your pets. Like that jade harvester, arachyr and HT/LoN pet-less builds can benefit from it. Gargantuans and Zombie dogs have enough multipliers already. Fetishes still need a help, but could come from another individual source like the dog/garg rings. Maybe in a shoulder like corruption, the zuni offhand or the in the set itself.

Edit 2 - 07/29

A good change for gargs, would be to buff the other garg runes which are currently useless. LoN and HT speed farm builds could benefit a lot more from a stronger big stinker rune. Bounties would be more fun and better with a stronger wrathful protector.

Not dumbing down and adding a x4 multiplier (RoE). Ok, you are sacrificing a x1.5 from taskers and a variant x1.5 from furnace. Thats a x2.25 multiplier against elites vs a x4 multiplier against all targets. HT gargs has more than enough dmg buffs in the build, no other set/ability can't even compare. MoJ (x2), TnT (x.1.5), Midnight Feast (x1.5), Enforcer (~x1.4) and most important SMF (3x3.5=x10.5). All of these are only the pet exclusives being the last one garg exclusive.

Without the ring HT garg was already the top wd build and the top class with DH and Saders. Yes, wiz was far ahead but because of either an exploit or 2 overpowered items that are being nerfed for season 7.

Edit 3 - 07/31

During PTR, when SWK monks got into high lvls of GR thanks to the new fist weapon, and R6 monks due to the set buff combined with fists of fury mechanic, blizz was really fast into fixing it so it would be more balanced.

When the changes to the twisted sword they initially made was still not enough and wizards were sitll performing extremely higher than the other classes, they again were fast to answer it.

When people found that Gazing Demise was bugged and buffing all of wd spells, and making jade doc go up to gr 105. They quickly went and destroyed the mojo, instead of fixing the bug.

It only remains to me to believe now that they intend to make HT Garg RoE a build far superior than the other builds/classes, for reasons i can't know.
Yeah with the insane damage boost the ring gives it makes it feel like any build that can't work it in is a waste of time. Hopefully things will not be quite so bleak but I have my doubts. We will soon see...
Not only builds that can't work with roe. Any wd build was already weaker than HT Gargs, and since this build can use roe, the difference is even higher now.
fark they made the roe as he said lol! One player gets to fark it for the rest of us. Thx you D... H...
Not whining, just pointing out a fact that is gonna bring the same issue this game always have, balance between classes and builds. What I am trying to say is that is better to buff the weaker builds than making the strong one even stronger.
I value your opinion on the matter because it is the same as mine. I brought it up in a couple different threads on the PTR forum and was met with indifference or hostility from the community. The majority of players only want to feel more powerful, yet sit and !@#$% about a lack of build diversity. The ring was clearly made for Jade, but due to the way the ring functions it simply dulls all builds and makes gearing uninteresting and repetitive. I fully support changing the ring to only increase LS and Haunt damage while enemies are affected by both. Sadly, your crusade will be met by resistance from the majority of the WD community.
07/23/2016 01:24 AMPosted by Tchevs
I main a wd, and I love garg build as much as i love trying stuff with lon and arachyr. I honnestly think blizz should change this ring to a way that it would only be viable for jades and maybe arachyr sets. HT garg didnt need this ring to stay competitive with other classes builds in 2.4.1, this ring is just making it unfair now.


The ring works well all sets including LoN builds, and thus increases build diversity, so ultimately we should be happy. If the RoE only worked with jade, we would only have two viable builds HT and Jade, but with the ring, zuni and LoN builds are now viable as well, and you want to nerf this build diversity, just so we basically only have 1 or two playable builds?!

Blizzard did think about everything, and I really value their creativity and judgement on this matter. Jade is also in a good place as it can do 90+ like HT and zuni, but it could use some built in toughness like HT has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
Every build needs RoE, LS, and Haunt now. Sure, more sets are viable, but all builds are going to have at least 3 of the same skills now with SH. Not to mention both Zuni and HT are Garg builds, so that is 4. Oooo, now you get to play with 2 skill slots. It is limiting, even though it allows you to play different sets, they will more or less be the same.

This problem is worsened by the fact outside of set items, most of the other sets are using similar items in Sacred Harvester and Henri's. Outside of pre-70 progression, there becomes a decreasing need to even have legendaries in the game outside of the ones that are mandatory.

I am not opposed to making the sets valuable, it just doest make sense to increase all sets through a single item. Zuni/HT/Arachyr all have plenty of support items that are already required, why not increase those to make them viable.

The new iteration of RoE is a bandaid fix to the class' sets' problems.
Dude, you just don't get it. Every build needs RoE, LS, and Haunt now. Sure, more sets are viable, but all builds are going to have at least 3 of the same skills now with SH. Not to mention both Zuni and HT are Garg builds, so that is 4. Oooo, now you get to play with 2 skill slots. It is limiting, even though it allows you to play different sets, they will more or less be the same.


I do get it, and ultimately I would have liked the other sets free of this ring too, but buffed accordingly, because it does give us more options to use other items in stead. However, as a realist I don´t think it´s gonna happen, because i honestly don´t think they have the resources, especially when you take into consideration the devs who have left the team.

You saw their buff to wastes set this season and it was with skull grasp that added 300% ww damage, and while the ring isn´t bad at all, the set definitely is, but for some reason they didn´t buff it then, nor even the next season despite several huge posts calling for balance. They did luckily change the group meta a bit, and nerf support, so now you can actually have 2 and even 3 dps in a group, which is cool.
This forum is amazing. 2.4.1 HT makes people complain about a boring gameplay. 2.4.2 makes people complain about too much power.
I like a little power creep each season but roe does feel like a twister sword light , which means disappointing nerfs now or later.

But it's more fun to play than twisters and archon at least !

It seems like monks got stronger too on dps
07/23/2016 12:55 PMPosted by ButteryNub
The majority of players only want to feel more powerful


07/23/2016 12:55 PMPosted by ButteryNub
Sadly, your crusade will be met by resistance from the majority of the WD community.


Exhibit A:

07/23/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Jazz
This forum is amazing. 2.4.1 HT makes people complain about a boring gameplay. 2.4.2 makes people complain about too much power.


The problem here isn't that HT is too powerful, it is the implementation of the power creep and how it affects the class as a whole. Are there any other classes that are forced to use two of the exact same resource spenders in EVERY build? The same ring, weapon, and off hand in EVERY build?
07/23/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Jazz
This forum is amazing. 2.4.1 HT makes people complain about a boring gameplay. 2.4.2 makes people complain about too much power.


I agree, it´s unbelievable and very selfish, that some wds actually want to nerf their own class, and not surprisingly the ones who want the nerfs don´t even play HT or zuni, but just jade.
I agree, it´s unbelievable and very selfish, that some wds actually are so stupid to want nerf on their own class, and not surprisingly the ones who want the nerfs don´t even play HT or zuni, but just jade.


I love the Helltooth set. I just hate that the only "correct" way to play it any more is by using gargantuans. I would love if RoE was a straight buff to Helltooth, but its not. It is a buff to a single Helltooth build, the gargantuan build.

What happened to the promise of the mana spender set? It has become nothing more than another pet set, and RoE solidifies this fact even further. Trying to work haunt and locust swarm both into a Helltooth acid cloud, zombie bears, or firebats build comes with a sacrifice, and puts those builds even further behind gargantuan than they already were.

I am happy that Jade and Zuni got a buff. I like those sets. I just wish that Jade, Zuni, and Helltooth had each gotten either more individual set specific buffs, or an all around witch doctor buff that didn't require as much investment as the ring of emptiness does.
lol, remember when helltooth was reintroduced and supposed to be the spender set? now it's just a gargantuan set...

devs :(
07/23/2016 01:48 PMPosted by Halfsoul
The ring works well all sets including LoN builds, and thus increases build diversity, so ultimately we should be happy. If the RoE only worked with jade, we would only have two viable builds HT and Jade, but with the ring, zuni and LoN builds are now viable as well, and you want to nerf this build diversity, just so we basically only have 1 or two playable builds?!


It doesn't really matter if other builds can use this ring. If the build that was already stronger and by far the best, can use it too, it will still make it the number 1 option again.

In season 6 Zuni wasn't competitive with HT, the way you have to apply zunis multiplier is way weaker than HTs, and you don't have an item that applies a strong multiplier to fetishes dmg like you have for gargs. Not even mentioning the fetish ambush rune not scaling with the 6p zuni set, which is sad.

Jade harvester had the dmg to compete, but lacks survivability, thus making HT more viable. I though about it and i see the healing rune from haunt still healing the same amount from RoS release, and makes me feel sad again.

Honnestly, LoN? you can find a way to fit roe in the build, but you will probably not find the dmg to kill elites and bosses, since LoN builds also use short mans finger in the kanai cube. Carnevil LoN already had a weaker damage cap than HT, if both can use the ring, it will stay the same. What would be amazing is that Gazing Demise wouldnt be nerfed to the ground, making it an useless mojo. Spirit barrage has no multiplier what so ever to make it viable to scale higher, the mojo could make him a really strong option for LoN builds to kill big elites and RGs.

Arachyr? well it has another problem that i don't wanna bring up here right now, but firebats seems to not be working correctly with some of the multipliers, because even with everything together, it still deals too low of a dmg.

07/23/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Jazz
This forum is amazing. 2.4.1 HT makes people complain about a boring gameplay. 2.4.2 makes people complain about too much power.


Well, now its a build that is boring to play and overpowered... hmm brings me back twister wizards
I can understand frustrations with the game surely, but the logical thing would be to ask for more improved and powerful items, skills, runes etc. not a nerf to a single item.

Just like a thread in the wiz forum where some suggest a nerf to Fazula's belt instead of a buff to other things.
Just as a friendly reminder, WD has been in a really bad spot for the past 6 seasons in terms of damage dealer:

http://i.imgur.com/iNOPTox.png

On average, WD has dealt 62% less damage than the season's highest damage dealer. 62% people.
07/24/2016 04:08 AMPosted by AliRawidDuh
Just as a friendly reminder, WD has been in a really bad spot for the past 6 seasons in terms of damage dealer:

http://i.imgur.com/iNOPTox.png

On average, WD has dealt 62% less damage than the season's highest damage dealer. 62% people.


That was until season 6, where you can see that all classes are in an average of same level, on exception of twister/firebug wizards.

Season 6 all classes managed to achieve an almost same level of max level in solo greater rifts except wizards, obviously.
^Yes you are right. But my point still stands that WD has really been neglected dps wise for a really really long time.

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