Consider early season ban waves / decease false positiv

General Discussion
I am happy that we have gotten traction on this botting problem.

Couple of suggestions :

1) ban early in seasons
2) as parameters would change possible if using hueristic methods, this would allow you to be a bit more stringent on the criteria, thus reducing false positives.

Many players have assumed that they got banned for simple macros or thud; while these things are bannable and they can not appeal, I do feel these were all collateral damage to false positives for bots.

Thousands of people use thud, and even more use simple macros, the message you are sending out is confusing and hidden behind a vague all inclusive tos.

I know it's impossible to get rid of false positives but Blizzard really needs to tighten down on the criteria. If there are enough ban waves at the right time, everyone should get caught over time.
So you were using thud, a program thats bannable.

And you're upset that you got caught and feel that because there are botters you should be allowed to do this?

Wat?
the tos is neither confusing, nor vague. Anyone with half a brain is aware of what can and can not be used.
That's why, as I've said before and so will repeat again, botters, thudders and others using whatever debatable means of playing this game, should simply be dumped onto their own server/leaderboards and charged a monthly fee to play. Others who want to join them should join them and leave the rest of the gamers to do their thing.

This would both provide revenue for future patches and end the pointless bickering and abuse around this subject.

It's clear that there are two diametrically opposed player philosophies clashing in Diablo 3 and I am not sure why this topic keeps on floating back to the surface like some incessant aquatic zombie that just won't die -- Blizzard is capable of programming a solution inside days, if they really wanted.

P.S. Didn't know Thud was spelled like this before now. Thought it was Hud.
Here's an idea: if you're illiterate or just too stupid to know what constitutes as cheating, then you can always ask us on the forums, provided you don't directly name a third-party software, in which case you'll be given a vacation (euphemism) for advertising.
"False positives" do not exist.

It is a lie spread by cheaters in an attempt to discredit anti-cheat countermeasures.

They didn't think they'd get caught. They cheated. They got caught. Now they rage for losing their account, despite being very clearly told when accepting the EULA this is precisely what will happen.
08/17/2016 01:27 PMPosted by Phatty
I am happy that we have gotten traction on this botting problem.

Couple of suggestions :

1) ban early in seasons
2) as parameters would change possible if using hueristic methods, this would allow you to be a bit more stringent on the criteria, thus reducing false positives.

Many players have assumed that they got banned for simple macros or thud; while these things are bannable and they can not appeal, I do feel these were all collateral damage to false positives for bots.

Thousands of people use thud, and even more use simple macros, the message you are sending out is confusing and hidden behind a vague all inclusive tos.

I know it's impossible to get rid of false positives but Blizzard really needs to tighten down on the criteria. If there are enough ban waves at the right time, everyone should get caught over time.

What you fail to realize is warden doesn't just check for botters, it checks for any 3rd party program that allows cheating. Which includes the extra information that thud gives the players and macros that allow more than one keypress with one press of the key. The ToS states not to use 3rd party programs with diablo as it is bannable. Nothing vague there. Thud, bot programs and the macro program are all 3rd party software that you are using to gain an advantage over everyone else.

You are NOT getting a false positive for botting, you are getting a positive for using bannable 3rd party programs. Warden is not there just for botters, it's there for all 3rd party programs you may be using in conjunction with diablo and thud and macros fall under that catagory
Wow, so much misinformation... Warden is not catching botters. Warden can only monitor game client memory space. Server side heuristics is what Blizzard is using to detect automation.

So get off your Warden soap box fan boy. You are clueless.
08/17/2016 10:45 PMPosted by Grim
"False positives" do not exist.

It is a lie spread by cheaters in an attempt to discredit anti-cheat countermeasures.

They didn't think they'd get caught. They cheated. They got caught. Now they rage for losing their account, despite being very clearly told when accepting the EULA this is precisely what will happen.


Sorry for calling you out on this, but false positives do exist, even it isn't like what some cheaters try to make them look like. If the enforcement is too strict, warden can ban for Nvidia software or creative drivers. When this happens, it affects a bunch of people (it isn't an individual complain) and the bans are lifted.

Example of unban blue posts after false positives:

- http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/18300092388?page=3#55

- http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/18300091763?page=1#0

Even if some people flat out lie when they appeal/complain, it doesn't mean that false positives don't happen.
08/17/2016 07:54 PMPosted by SteamPowered
So you were using thud, a program thats bannable.

And you're upset that you got caught and feel that because there are botters you should be allowed to do this?

Wat?


No, that's not what I said. Reading comprehension is weak in you.

08/17/2016 08:21 PMPosted by PhazeDelta1
the tos is neither confusing, nor vague. Anyone with half a brain is aware of what can and can not be used.


Actually, it is. It's all encompassing with a loophole. Try reading a bunch of discussions about it on here.

08/17/2016 09:27 PMPosted by Etelen
That's why, as I've said before and so will repeat again, botters, thudders and others using whatever debatable means of playing this game, should simply be dumped onto their own server/leaderboards and charged a monthly fee to play. Others who want to join them should join them and leave the rest of the gamers to do their thing.


This doesn't stop them from cheating on the the "non-cheating" server.

08/17/2016 09:52 PMPosted by HelloKitty
Here's an idea: if you're illiterate or just too stupid to know what constitutes as cheating, then you can always ask us on the forums, provided you don't directly name a third-party software, in which case you'll be given a vacation (euphemism) for advertising.


Um, hellokitty, here's an idea. How about gaining an understanding of the history of what's going on between said programs and what has happened before talking out of your blowhole?

08/18/2016 04:09 AMPosted by Steve
You are NOT getting a false positive for botting, you are getting a positive for using bannable 3rd party programs. Warden is not there just for botters, it's there for all 3rd party programs you may be using in conjunction with diablo and thud and macros fall under that catagory


There's no way to know what they are checking put simple statistics do not place thud or macros as a bannable process. If this was the case, there would have been a lot more thud bans and a lot more macro bans. Possibly numlock. Mathematically speaking, this is unlikely. Now there are more than 2 bots and more than thud / macros out there that can be caught and be bannable. I don't doubt that. I know of people in real life and through non-cheat clans that were false positive bans from what they say.

Of course, they could be lying. I realize that. Traditionally, in the past, at almost every banwave except the last season, I didn't hear much if any false positives. This time around I know about 8 or 9 right off the top of my head. This is again maybe an anecdoctal anomaly but from other posts from other websites and here. It seems to be a concerning issue that may be a real problem.

08/18/2016 05:26 AMPosted by Erebus
Server side heuristics is what Blizzard is using to detect automation.


Thank you. Someone who knows what we're talking about.
I really have to question people who don't want more banwaves with more stringent criteria.

Having a banwave say around week 3 and another one at week 11 and making the criteria less stringent would possibly find equal if not more true - true botters.

Reducing false positives and increasing the suppression should be a no brainer - unless of course you bot, which is probably where most of those minus points are coming from.
08/17/2016 01:27 PMPosted by Phatty
Thousands of people use thud, and even more use simple macros, the message you are sending out is confusing and hidden behind a vague all inclusive tos.


There's no confusion about the ToS that state very clearly using any of these is a bannable offense.

You used it and got banned? You don't say!
08/17/2016 01:27 PMPosted by Phatty
Couple of suggestions
Suggest whatever you want, but the reality is that Blizzard has some highly paid people that write some serious financial algorithms for maximizing profit. They know to the minute when it's best to banwave for optimum repurchases.

Anything we suggest is usually geared towards making the game better for players. Blizzard, as a corporate entity, doesn't give a !@#$ about that. They're in it for the money.

Sad, but true.
08/18/2016 07:29 PMPosted by GodofMagic
08/17/2016 01:27 PMPosted by Phatty
Thousands of people use thud, and even more use simple macros, the message you are sending out is confusing and hidden behind a vague all inclusive tos.


There's no confusion about the ToS that state very clearly using any of these is a bannable offense.

You used it and got banned? You don't say!


Again, the tos is all inclusive with a loop hole.

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